Racial Discrimination
 

Hi there

Berfore I start my pilot training, i want to know if it is common for the airlines to prefer white pilots rather than pilots of another colour puerly on the colour of their skin?

I'm an asian (Indian) ,born and raised in London and even though being 110% British I fear due to the recent climate regarding the aviation industry my skills and qualites may be overlooked due to the colour of my skin.

All comments appreciated


Thank you

In an ideal world you should be hired purely on your skills. No one can guarantee that you wont experience discrimination during your flying career, chances are you probably wont.

Saying that, racial discrimination will always continue (to some degree no matter how small it may be) and so does anti-semitism(of which I have been exposed to myself).

Hold your head high, let your flying skills do the talking, and dont take no ****!

How do mate,

I know exactly where your coming from!
Im a Sikh lad who was born and bred in Glasgow so im 110% Scottish and very proud of my country (even though our rugby team got beat by argentina! come on scotland, get your finger out!)

Anyway, like I said before im Sikh and have a turban and beard. Which means instant discrimination which pi$$es me off. Since 9/11 its been worse and it put me off becoming a pilot. Even though Sikhism is a completly different religion.

But now, Ive started my PPL and going on to do modular at Oxford.

In short, I couldnt care less what anyone else thinks, I'm happy in my own skin.

So keep that in mind and you should have no problems mate

Good luck!

In any walk of life you will come across a small minority of idiots who believe they can judge someone from the place he was borne or the colour of his skin. So, yes, you will probably find some prejudice in our industry but, on the other hand, many major players are keen to prove their PC credentials and go out of their way to recruit from minorities. Swings and roundabouts.

I work for easyJet which for all its faults is truly one of the most cosmipolitan companies I have ever come across. The colour of your skin is simply not an issue - we have Muslims, Christians, Hindhus, Sikhs, atheists, black, white, yellow and people from just about every nation you can think of. Your racial background is simply a non-issue. At our national carriler, British Airways, being an ethnic minority is positively an advantage in that they are desparate to be seen to be recruiting from all sections of the community. I truly believe that the airline industry is one of the most open and accepting environments you could ever be in. Have no fears mate - this is a safe place for you.

The airline I work for has a reputation for being sexist and, possibly racist. We have a number of Muslim pilots plus some from other ethnic groups and even some females. I would guess we employ some Indians.

I think you will find the issue is not the colour of your skin or what "church" you go to at the weekend but what sort of person you are and how you get on with people.

Me, I can't stand evangelical Christians!

Don't take offence, but why would you say British and not English?

I did notice that the Sikh geezer was happy to describe himself as Scottish whereas a Sikh mate of mine from Southall describes himself as British not English.

Bit off topic, just interested that's all.

I really don't think that you should have problems. I can't recall ever having seen a pilot wearing a turban though. Good luck on being the first!

Cheers GMED:ok:

I think there is a few turban wearing pilots, but im not 100% sure either. I believe its not really a field Sikhs venture into mainly because it has nothing to do with medicine, dentistry, pharmacy etc.... (Bad joke there!) :E

But im hoping it wont stop me getting a job. My instructor says it shouldn't be an issue.

For one, they'll probably be amazed by my accent!
Most people are!

Racism
 

"Me, I can't stand evangelical Christians". Is this really acceptable?

Try..."Me, I can't stand fundamental Muslims" and see how far that gets you.

If my posting is deleted, please consider the Christian-bashing contribution that preceeded it.

And no racism intended.

This thread was always unlikely to stick to the path that the question intended. This is the Terms & endearment forum and as such those of you slipping off the path into the ditch will find your posts do likewise. Please read the original question and answer accordingly.

Come to the states my friend ;) Diversity is our middle name. (ok well maybe our First name)

No other country in the world has such a mix of peoples from all around the globe holding positions of power at so many levels - this is a fact. This diversity, I believe, is a key strength for the country.

As far as the airlines here go, I do admit seeing mostly white fellows up in the pointy end - but I think the variance of ethnicity is greater here than anywhere else - no scientific evidence to support my claim - but I have a good feeling it must be true.
United Airlines is well known for their 'quota' system ensuring more minorities are given cockpit opportunities.

I wonder if there is data (from like ALPA or something) showing the racial makeup of flight crews worldwide ?

best regards

RoyBoy,

In British Airways, where I work, we have people of every race and creed on the planet. A major airline cannot survive otherwise. I believe there is no discrimination of any sort.

The colour of one's skin matters not a jot although behaviour, beliefs and attitude may be a different matter. And that applies to everyone.

We have at least two pilots who wear a turban.

Go for it.

It's my belief that you will acually have a better chance.

Companies should idealy recruit the best person for a job regardless of race/colour/creed/sex ect. Sadly companies cannot be trusted to do this so they are leagally bound to.

It's a sad state of affairs that people are not employed on just on their skills/merits but to also to meet quota's and as stated above to make the company look good.

My advice is to go ahead and start your training. It's hard work and fun but the jobs are few and far between.

BB

You will find probably one or two individuals who are like this, but airlines on a whole are just interested in that you can do the job and have the quals.

Like others have said, you got Black pilots, Asian Pilots, Semitic Pilots ect ect.

I know of one Ex-Air Jamaica pilot at virgin and another black one at KLM, and of course, theres me :p

as long as you get your head down and not think about it, it wont be a problem

good luck!

That reminds me of the first time I met a white 3rd gen Jamaican. He spoke just like a blackman! Very confusing.

As a British (English) Asian Pilot (now who's being PC??) who works for a large UK Jet airline, I can happily report that I have not felt a jot of racism from my fellow pilots, in general I have found pilots to be very tolerant and open minded. I believe this come from pilots generally being well educated and well travelled.

As for positive discrimination I'm not sure about that, you still have to meet and exceed the standard in flying and personal qualities to be selected and succeed in a very competitive industry.

Apart from the occasional thoughtless remark from the girls post 7/7 the airline staff are very colour blind. I have noticed the odd dodgy look from the pax but nothing to really get excited about.

So in summary don't let your background bother you just strive to set a very high standard and let your results and abilities talk for you.

Racism
 

I am a British Citizen of Indian descent working as a Captain A320 in an airline in India. I have been 27 years in aviation military and civil. My honest opinion after having searched for a job in UK for 2 years is:

- is that the colour of the skin will matter with the HR guys/gals who interview you. To the pilots the professional aspects are all that matter, so choose an airline where pilots control the interviews.

- where u WILL be discriminated against is the colour of your passport and age (either you are too young or too old).

My personal opinion.

I'm a british born Indian, and I caught the flying bug from a very young age.

I was determined that nothing was gonna stop me from reaching my goal.
And I can honestly say that I have not experienced any discrimination.

After completing my CAP509, Cabair forwarded my CV to a major regional airline. Went for my first interview, had a laugh with the interviewer and got the job.

After several years moved onto a major UK charter airline, now flying airbuses. And still having a laugh with the crew.

In the several years of flying I have only had a problem with 1 captain. As it turned out this was not due to my permanently tanned skin, as all the other FO's had a problem with him.

Follow your dream, STUDY HARD (I cannot stress that enough, I did a degree at uni. That was a holiday compared to the intense flying course). Provided you are a decent enough person and not a nutter I'm sure we'll see you in the right hand seat in the future.

Just for the stats, my airline employs Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.

And don't let the turban put you off, I've seen a turban wearing pilot at BA, BY and BMIbaby

Thanks Guys that really did help alot!

After all thats happened you can't help but think that you will be discriminated against.

Reading all your comments has really put my mind at ease. thank you everyone and good luck to all of you whatever race/religon/age/sex you are.

Thank you

I too would like to thank everyone for their postive comments.

Who knows, we may meet some day!

:ok:

To end with one of my favourite quotes:

"To most people, they sky is the limit, to those who love aviation, the sky is home" Anonymous

Living and working in UK you may not face it directly and dont be shocked if you will.

What puth panjab & Jagbag says is VERY TRUE...STUDY HARD REAL HARD.

Aviation is a life time comitment...... not like just another line of work. all the best!

Just to add my two pennies (rupees?) worth. I too am a uk born Indian/Englishman of indian origin/British Hindu, with the added benefit of being told i look Middle Eastern. Had similar worries when i was young and was desparate to become a pilot. I went through the training system right about the 9/11 time and am subsequently working for a loco - not once have i encountered any sort of discrimination or racism. If anything my ethnic background is usually of great interest to the crews i fly with and i often enjoy regaling my colleagues with strange tales of weddings that last a week with a 1000+ guests and festivals which seem to crop up every other week based on the lunar calendar.

Though having just successfully passed the airways selection procedure i was actually starting to think that all the hard work and blood, sweat and tears had paid off. How naive of me! I realise now i only got in because of the colour of my skin. Makes a little more sense considering the ropey sim check i had.

Joking aside there may be some postive discriminiation out there unfortunately. Myself and a friend of mine won some flying awards from our training provider. On closer inspection we noticed that i was brown and my friend was female - talk about wheeling out the minorities for the awards bash ;)

Good luck RoyBoy et al.

'Cause Glasgow is in Scotland perhaps??:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Anybody(regaldless of their color or religion) who holds a British passport is British.
Being English to be a member of an ethnic group.
I find a lot of British/English do not understand this one.
But the French call enyone who comes from the British Isles "Les Anglais"
:sad:

We follow the same school of thought 'tournesol'

No, being English means being born or having the adopted home of England, one of the four countries (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) that make up the United Kingdom, commonly known as Great Britain. Someone of Shikh descent born in London is English. Someone of Anglo-saxon descent born in Cardiff is Welsh- But they are both British.

Try calling a Scotsman in a Glasgow pub "English" after about 9.00pm and see what happens!!!

quote:

________________________________________________


Don't take offence, but why would you say British and not English?

___________________________________________________

i have indian freinds and born and brought up in london if they wear a english shirt and go to support england team in a pub the so called english supporters (most of them from millwall or west ham) take it as an insult to english and abuse the asians for wearing the shirts this can be uncomfortable,this in turn leads the minority of them to call themselves british rather than english,
funny world we live in

but coming back to the original forum complete your studies work hard and do not give two toss about your racial background if you are good you are good end of the story :ok:

Then cheer like hell when Sean Wright-Phillips slams one home!! There are racist jerks everywhere. An English born Asian supporting the team of his country of birth is a sign of the acceptence and mutual respect we need. To stop calling yourself English becaus of a bone-headed minority a damn shame.

Just a reminder this is Terms & Endearment. Can responders restrict themselves to the thread starters original question. As a reminder it is :

Racial Discrimination
Hi there

Berfore I start my pilot training, i want to know if it is common for the airlines to prefer white pilots rather than pilots of another colour puerly on the colour of their skin?

I'm an asian (Indian) ,born and raised in London and even though being 110% British I fear due to the recent climate regarding the aviation industry my skills and qualites may be overlooked due to the colour of my skin.

All comments appreciated


Thank you

I am a Indian, however, born and bred in the UK, started my Aviation Career in Airline operations back in 1987.

Over the years since I gained my UK ATPL and now I am a Captain of a Jet Aircraft in the UK.

I have never been treated differently but was given alot of encouragement and support from people within the industry.

So keep at it get your licences and go for it!!!

At the end it will be your skill, knowledge and the person you are that will get you the job.

ADG

Based on my (very limited) knowledge, I doubt you are going to hit a problem with race. British/English/Mancurian friend of mine - who is also 1st generation Bangladeshi/"Asian British"/whatever is politically correct this week - went straight from integrated course with 200+ hours to CitiExpress (Dash 8) and then (within a few months) onto Britannia/ThomsonFly (767).

Wingswinger......

Do those two gentlemen you referred to, each wear "a" turban?

How do they decide which one gets to wear it on any particular day?

Since I've never seen them together, I couldn't possibly comment.

Roy Boy, just to add my two cents worth, I too was born in the UK, but now live in the US and am a 7576 Captain for a major US airline. I have never encountered any racial discrimination at any airline I've worked for.... maybe it's because I don't look for it. If anyone ever had their doubts (and it's happened a couple of times over the last 25+ years) I've let my flying do the talking. I've met other pilots from Asia/Indian subcontinent, that were quick to blame the color of their skin for not getting on at a carrier, but I think their attitude towards life let them down. I must admit I did get a laugh once, when I was an F/O on a trip to London, and my Captain happened to be from Afghanistan, we sure did get some curious looks from our pax !! Good luck and happy landings in your career. FLCH

If you believe you will discriminated against, you will be. If you believe you will go in and do your very best as an aviator, you will probably succeed. Our airline has every mix you can think of, we don't give a rats ass, as long as you can do the job.
Go in thinking your doing your very best, do your very best, lose any attitude you have, be nice, listen instead of talk, you'll do fine!
Remember, there are sphinctors from every nation in the world, just don't let them sphinct you!

Hi RoyBoy and all you guys

I personnally have a different experience from most people on this thread, having worked mainly in third world countries. In these places, racism does take place more often than not on the job. On the one side you have companies for "locals" where you stand no chance as a white boy, and companies for "whites" where you'd better be of clear complexion... In both cases discrimination will take place during recruitment, upgrades and transition to larger airplanes. And in both cases it becomes hard to know when are these decisions taken based on ability, seniority, or race.

This is probably the best advice on the matter here. However it seems minority pilots often have to work twice as hard (or be twice as good) to get the same credit.

Anyways, my impression is you guys will be better off working in Europe, the USA, or any other place where people have gone beyond that race issue.

Good luck to yall. :ok:

-- TTF.

The answer to the original question is no, and neither do they pick on the basis of flying skills - the criteria for a job are met by many, many people, and the reasons for picking one over the other are generally arbitary given that most would do the job to the same level.

Skin colour is generally as much of a hinderance or benefit as your flying record presuming you've arrived at interview.

Good luck!

Re: Racial Discrimination
 

My two rupies would be, stick to your religion but get rid of the turban while on duty/work in any european airline. My company (major EU carrier) will not accept a turban or a beard this size for the cockpit for professional reasons, o2 mask,headset, passenger apperance(after 9/11 a very touchy issue), uniform code etc... Should be not problem on the job market, if you can step beyond these strange religious symbols and be a professional while at work, do whatever you like in privat-I would say this will keep you and everybody on a smooth ride.

Re: Racial Discrimination
 

I'll try and be as civil as i can about the reply from CWS...........basically he's talking a load of B******s !....

What a contradiction of terms ! I wear a Turban and work for a "major" European Carrier and have never expereienced any problems with all my colleagues, including management who have had nothing but respect for me and my faith.

Be realistic there are people in this industry as well as others that do hold racist views, but as other posts have advised, stick to who you are, as you will be more respected and not be some partimer who wears a turban outside of work !

sp