Ryanair
 

General advice to all pilots who want to join Ryanair:

It's a rip off. I belong to a group of at least 40 pilots who have been totally grounded for an indefinite period of time.
Nobody from Ryaniar says anything, no info, nothing. There 's many people who's been waiting for at least 3 months already since they finished the type rating (not including Base training ) course and haven't finished yet the training. Maybe they are afraid of us to leave the company as soon as we get the type rating endorsed in our licenses.
No paying, nothing. We all feel totally abandoned.
Be prepared to pay for your uniforms, ID cards, and more things not mentioned on the interview.

They have agreements with SAS and CAE, so they need to keep sending people to this flight academies constantly regardless if they need or not more pilots, otherwise they loose money.

It's a business, they will fool you. Unfortunately I'm already in, and there's no step back for me, but please don't join them, they will pull your leg.

Funnily enough I got exactly the same warning from a captain friend of mine when chatting about job hunting yesterday. He advised to steer clear of them. Unless you really don't care about money and have nothing better to do.

For how long can an airline survive with a bad reputation? You constantly hear of these things with regards to Ryanair. Whilst it's true that people never complain about anything good. The number of bad experiences with Ryanair compared to other airlines remains a real eye-opener.

What to do? :confused:

Maybe a problem regarding number a line training captains available ?
Do the FOs with 100 to 500 hours on type have the same problem?

...... forever as long as guys like you lot are prepared to whore yourselves out paying for the type rating! Sorry for the lack of sympathy guys but with the freeflow of information running around the industry it beggars belief that anyone can come in with their eyes wide shut! Don't worry they'll drag you in when they need you :(

Below is a picture of the typical ryanair applicant:

http://hometown.aol.com/unclechris19...%20monkeys.jpg

Unfortunately by the time reality bites em in the ass, the money has long since been paid over. When will you ever learn?

... you will have at least a type rating, so why don't you look for a job somewhere else??...you have signed a contract??
this contract is not valid, as they have already broken the agrement with you by grounding you.

as long they offer free ticket at 0.01 euro,why should they pay you?

be happy they dont charge you 50'000 euro for 500 hours, it is only 100 euro per hour. to fly on Boeing.

welcome in the real world, Neo!!!

(finish your training and ask them compensation for the time/ salary you have lost, but if I was you, I would look somwhere else)

If everybody makes a stand and stops paying for type ratings this would no longer be a problem I reckon.
The few who can afford it are causing chaos for everyone else.
Surely the airlines would give in and start to pay for them again as i'm sure pilots would be more than happy to be bonded for a few years to cover it. I know that some Easyjet for example pay it back to you but that is not the point,they will only take the people willing to shell out up-front:mad:
The way I see it is thus:-

Pilot shortage:confused:

Lack of pilots availiable with spare £25k for type rating

Lack of funding availiable for wannabes since H.S.B.C not playing ball anymore

Once the supply of minted trainees/rich parents:yuk: dries up the airlines will have no choice
I hope so,I for one will not be able to afford a rating on anything bigger than a King Air:*

I suspect it is because of all those selfish t0ssers who decided to make themselves bankrupt to avoid paying the loan back. Anyway, as a result there will be few 20 somethings and loads of 30 somethings in the game within the next 18 months. Could be good news for us oldies.

I will be 26 when I am employable. I hope that doesn't mean i'm an oldie!!!:}

Does anyone have any stats regarding how many of the low houred cadets that get selected for the type rating actually get all the way to being given jobs...?

Cheers bks

Mate, I'm 29 and just got employed.......I was 26 when I finished my training!

hoi,

it is perhaps off-topic but it is a quit amazing how you can wait 3 years before having a job!! i'm applying now for about 8 months (about 300 letters) and i'm already desperate.

Good luck with your job wince:ok:
dboy

What!? 8 months and you are already desperate? I am hunting since 1999 what should I do? kill myself ?

since 1999???????? GOD, i would just quit flying and looking for another job. At some point you have to draw a line.

grtz

In Italy it's quite common, it's all about raccomendation here, if you have one you have a job, otherwise you will fly as a FI for the rest of your life. Thanks god we have Ryanair.

My first post and it's unfortunatley about Ryanair. I had a similar experience about paying for a type rating without any job offer. Luckily I queried it so I still have my money!!

Forgive the spelling......

Training
 

Im very sorry to hear all these stories. The problem in Ryanair these days is lack of linetrainers. Those training is doing a 24/24 hour job - many training for the fifth year without any "non-training" days - just to relax a bit. That makes the job as trainer in ryanair very unattractive - even the money is crab..... It is difficult for Ryanair to attract expirenced captains for the job - unfortunately this affect you guys - Im sorry...
I feel sorry for you, but as I see it - the trainers in Ryanair can't work any harder - they are giving all they can...

Re: Ryanair
 

Some things to weigh up in your mind if a person is considering Ryanair - given the endless chain of ill-remarks and negative stories are (in my opinion) as follows:

1.How badly do you want a job?
2.Can you find someone to "get you in there" for a shot at it i.e. a chance at a simcheck- CAE & SAS have 6,000 applications on-line - its word-of-mouth that gets the majority of guys a chance at a simcheck.
3. Are you willing to wait approx. 6 to9 months from passing a simcheck, interview to going on-line
4. Are you willing to forfeit alomst 35,000Euro for the whole lot
5. Are you willing to deal with endless feelings of the "unknown" all thru your type rating and line training regarding when the next stage will be i.e. guy have had to wait 3 months plus from completing the type rating to getting their base check
6. Are you willing to accept no pay while you train and do the basecheck and
7. Are you willing to wait a year to make a dime?
8. Are you exploring all the other airlines in the UK and Ireland, etc etc?
9. Once started, are you willing to put up with in an airline where the staff to management relationships breed disdain and negativity?

Just a few thoughs.

On the other hand, guys are willing to go thru all this happily just to make a start in their careers and finally get flying.

Hope 2006 will be more fruitful than 05!

Re: Ryanair
 

I also heard that you can be contract direct by Ryanair or you can join the airline being contracted via Brooksfield Aviation , in this second case , you even don't need to have work permition in the UK , they get it for ya , but otherwise thay say that in this case , u don't have a fixed base. They change your base almost every month and don't pay any kind of home allowence. The good thing about is that u can do more money joining Ryan this way.

Re: Ryanair
 

Arans

Please explain this? You mean FR are now employing Asylem seekers! No wounder there are so many wanabees unemployed in Europe if the EU is willing to throw open the doors to anyone no matter where they are in the world?

And on the Brookfield contract, unless you have a copy in your hand, I think you will find its not exactly as good as you assume. Do a search on PPrune.

Re: Ryanair
 

It's what I heard man , I'm not sure this is true , but I know there's quite a few non-EU citizens flying for some EU Airlines , why EU allows something like that with so many EU citizens unemployed , I don't know !

Since the search opition is no longer avaliable at PPrune can u explain what u mean with that about Brookfield ?

What are you guys complaining about. I'm from Africa and would love to be employed in an EU member state. I'm so tired of seeing you skanks taking contract work in Africa, whilst our pilots sit unemployed as a result. But here in Africa it seems fine for you guys to join our contracts and take work away from guys who are sitting on the ground, so that you can build hours.

Re: Ryanair
 

fun gi pilot

There are loads of people recruiting, why don't you try one of them. If you don't like sitting in Africa wishing you could fly for an EU company, then do something about it. Don,t sit there and tell us that you are fed up listening to the whinging of EU pilots. If you think it's desirable to end up in huge amounts of debt, which you can only pay back by flying, given the promise of working, but then not to get it. have to work initially on very little pay for a long period when you do eventually get flying... then come to us.
Is exactly where the management want you.....it's not the career that you think it is..

Let´s remember that there´s a lot of european pilots flying all around the World , such as Caribean , Asia and Middle East , so I think it´s fare that north americans , south americans , africans and so can fly in Europe.

Arans,

It don't matter what's fair, it matters what's legal!!!

If you don't have right of abode in the EU, you don't work here! Same as no green card no work in the US.

Wiz, that is not correct. It may apply in the UK but in many other countries (in the EU and around the world) it does not. This right of abode garbage is just that. A bunch of primadonas on their high horse I suggest. There are ex- pats everywhere in nearly every country I have been to. If you have a qualification the host country wants , then you satisfy the requirement to live and work there. As simple as that. The global village is a small place these days. Lets keep it simple and dismantle these disgusting attitudes toward foreign workers.

Coitus,

True to an extent but Airline Pilot doesn't count as such a qualification in either the EU or the USA. I am allowed to live and work here because I inherited citizenship from my Father, but many many equally qualified Aussies who don't have recent ancesral links can't, and the only way I could work in the states is if I won a green card lottery.

True you can work in places like Asia as they can't supply enough of their own pilots, but in many places only as a contractor,and there even in places like Singapore, where there are LOADS of ex-pats, there is a definate push towards positive discrimination towards locals.

Governments will always look afer the interests of their own citizens first. Sure if having a foreiner working in your country is in your national interest you will let them, but only if there isn't a local to do it first.

I'm not saying that it's right or fair (though it's understandable) but it is still very much the way of the wirld.

Can it be so bad
 

Getting initial experience as FO on type has hiccups with any airline. Once you have a few hundred hours under your belt on 737, can it be as bad as you make it?

I am sorry to disagree with Coitus, but wizofox is exactly right. The 'global village' argument just does not stand up to examination. If you go to the Middle or Far East where they employ ex-pat pilots, you are openly treated as a second-class citizen who is only there until the day they can train their own people - and then you are history. We should not under any circumstances be employing non-EU nationals as pilots in Europe, and have absolutely no moral or legal obligation to do so. The employment of ex-pat pilots in other corners of the world is 100% driven by the need of the countries involved - they are not doing it as a favour as part of an old boy network. We in Europe have no need whatsoever to hire pilots from outside - there are literally thousands of unemployed but employable pilots out there.

The fact is that all these airlines want something for nothing in the form of type-rated pilots without having to pay a penny towards their training. These guys are increasingly like gold dust and the low cost airlines, where most of the expansion is these days, have to take some responsibility for puting their would-be pilots through the appropriate training courses. Training costs and they have to accept that it is incumbent upon would-be employers to foot some of the bill.

I really don't agree... Some of those airlines do pay for the foreing pilots' trainning. I think it's really a need to contract experienced pilots with type-rating. You just can't contract a lot of unexperienced pilots in a fast-growing airline like Ryan for example. You need to mix it and as I see it's not easy to find it nowadays in Europe. And there's another stuff , must european pilots just use those airlines like Ryan to get experience and then they leave it to a better place. So is their fault too...
You just can't state that what happens in Middle and Far East is different from what is happening in Europe.
You can't say that european pilots are not well treated in those foreing airlines , do you have any idea how those pilots are treated at Emirates , for example ??? I can tell you that is very very well... better than they were in their homelands !

you have got to be joking? All sounds rosy indeed but the honeymoon period wears off very quickly, out of 22 ex-pat individuals I know in ME and Asia there is only 1 that is happy.
And wait until you try to leave Emirates............ then the fun starts!