Just a few simple things would make easy a good place to stay....but as long as the management dont want it to be a place to stay I dont think there is anything we can do about it...

They rather take pilots who pays for there typerating and stay 3 years and then they move on because they arent happy...

As I said it wouldent take much...

The latest offer I heard from the paydeal is that we lose the crewfood and get 2% payrise and 7% on the pension....talk about insult!!!!

These are suppose to be the good times, I wonder what Mr Webster and Mr Winter are getting for leaving bonus....

If what you say flywin is true or not I have no idea, but as you say its just rumors so lets not dig the graves just yet....
However, I sincerely hope that BALPA will turn down any deal that is not a truly good one. We do have a problem with low BALPA representation in EZY but it should be enough to pull some weight when negotiating...in the mean time, IF YOU ARE NOT IN BALPA THEN ITS TIME TO JOIN!

/CP


:confused: If we could gain ANYTHING by getting rid of the crew food, then I say DO IT! I have heard that at some bases the catering comp provide crew food for FREE, as part of the deal to get the contract with ezy, SO you are paying for food that was given to ezy...:yuk: No wonder the food is C##P!!:yuk:

It's a pity that you don't follow your own advice Captain Prop ;)

Are you 100% certain you are correct about what you say with regard to crew food? I think not so stick to facts!

"It's a pity that you don't follow your own advice Captain Prop
Are you 100% certain you are correct about what you say with regard to crew food? I think not so stick to facts!"

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

NO, Im not 100% certain!! I did say "I have heard that...." did I not?? Did not say that this was the case..... And I DO believe that there is some truth to this crew food deal....at the UK bases anyway....But if it makes you feel better, I might be wrong! Oh, and by the way, how do YOU know for sure(100%)??

As far as my comment on flywin...I did not say he was wrong, right or anything in between....another way of saying "Hang in there! There is still hope!" Until the results are made official perhaps its a good idea to keep it positive, as positive as possible, and try to persuade our colleagues to join BALPA and give us some weight when negotiating....

Relax bro, this is a rumour network!! :ok: :ok:

/CP

I also heard the rumour about crew food. According to the T&G rep it costs the company about £5m a year - their figures not mine. No wonder they're keen to get rid. Frankley I'd rather have the money.

However,if the rest of the deal is as the grape vine has it - it most definately sucks! I too see more people joining BALPA to have a say (I'm one of them) and if there's any truth in what we've all heard my cross is definately in the NO box.

All power to the CC, donkey jackets, Che t-shirts, burning braziers and placards at the ready :eek:

Viva la revolution :ok:

As has rightly been stated by many, this is only a rumour network - the truth will appear later. In the mean time it is important that we all keep our powder dry and wait to see what actually appears. Like many of us have been saying, this is the moment to join BALPA and have your say. If you do not like what is being offered (and if what is being written here is true then none of us will!), you can vote against it.

The choice to join BALPA is a personal one. If, however, you do not join, please do not so much as raise a whimper anytime, anywhere to anyone about any aspect of your terms and conditions - the only person to blame will be yourself!

I hope you guys and girls at EZY can get your act together as otherwise and with no disrespect to anyone, it is quite pathetic. Easy has been in existance for 10 years, is one of the largest, profitable airlines in Europe and still enjoys some of the lowest terms and conditions in the industry.

Just look at your collegues in the UK charter industry such as BY, MON, TCX, MYT and FCA

Crew Food
Uniforms for free
Cleaning vouchers for uniform
Company pension contributions of 15% on basic salaries which is far in excess of EZY's (with pay scales approx Capt 68k - 100k, plus flight pay)
Private Health Insurance (PHI)
Private Medical Insurance
800 hours per year, which amounts to roughly 12-14 short haul trips per month in summer (less with longaul) and 6 in the winter.
Discounted package holidays
Interline agreements with most airlines for staff travel
Annual leave of around 37-46 days

So come on, it's all very well getting a quick command, but it's about time you enjoyed life aswell!

well at least we know the truth now . Offer is1.5% now followed by 1.2% in April . Nothing on the pension un-less we give up eating at work end even then only 2% .

If you want a european base or have one then sorry no payrise for you , not only that all new european hires will be on local terms not uk contract .

Could it get any worse ?

All you non-members out there , you must join now . Forget abiut BALPA in the past . The here and now is what matters . We have a great CC in EZY at the mo' .The CC are totally opposed to this deal ,only with your support can something better be brought to the table .

Nil Further - you are so right. If any non-BALPA members are reading this, you need to become a member today. This offer would be laughable if it was not serious. It constitutes a pay cut for all pilots but an even bigger one for those based outside the UK.

I have only recently re-joined BALPA having been totally disillusioned with them in the past. Whatever your past experiences have been - put it behind you. It is absolutely vital that you join now and decide to join us in what will be a difficult but winnable fight. We simply must have your support.

My first posting on Pprune, because I feel so strongly about this subject.
I could not vote against the 5/2/5/4 as I was not a member of BALPA.
The minority voted and the majority are suffering the consequences.
I have now joined BALPA as I am not prepared to have my life downgraded further without being able to fight for what I believe is right.
I have just read the insulting offer from the Company and would urge every non BALPA member of the airline to join.
We have a new cc and if we back them, as I believe they will try and back us, united we can endeavour to stop the rot.
EZY has the potential to be an excellent airline and rather than leave because I am dissatisfied, I would rather try to influence the future in a positive way for the benefit of us all.

To all Non Members..


Now is the time to join balpa. We have a good new CC, they have bravely rejected the pathetic and insulting offer. Now is the time to get behind them and give them our full support.

This time we WILL get the deal that we all deserve!.


Don't hesitate.... JOIN BALPA TOMORROW:D

Here! Here!

Totally agree the more members we have the more we can bully the company into giving us what we derserve for a change.

From reading th balpa website the old CC seemed to accept whatever was put on the table, this new CC looks like it's not going to take any Bu!!sh!te from the company they have already told them in their words that everything the company has put on the table is totally unacceptable.

Now you non members join Balpa and give the CC more bargaining power instead of going into work and moaning about everything.

I'll repeat what I said earlier the so called career airlines have only got good terms and conditions because they have a high Balpa membership fighting for them not because their career airline wants to pay really well, because if they could they would lower the terms and condiotions in a heartbeat.

So instead of moaning join Balpa and make a difference.

Absolutely! If we don't fight now we might as well resign ourselves to being shafted every year.

All that C**p in the 10 year book about people being our greatest asset. Ezy could be a great airline but only if we stop the rot and start going forward.

Yes,yes, yes join BALPA now. Start spreading the word in the crewrooms today. Now is not the time for excuses!

Pleased to see that MS has deceided to send us a letter explaining in very reasonable terms that the company can not afford a payrise cos they've c0cked up so much, so far this year that we're all just greedy.

So to all out there, don't join BALPA, support the company at this difficult time and you will be justly rewarded. Just in time to say goodbye to our chief pilot, followed by the other hundreds who are/ are going to/ will leave soon.

Just take my advice - accept the current excellent offer. I'm leaving anyway...............toodle pip

:D

Yeah, and no mention about the Euro pay scale... How convenient! :}

In this email he even admits that BA makes more money per seat flown than SleazyJet (a "low cost airline") so it´s about time some heads start to roll with management! :yuk:

The letter is a disgrace.

It starts by saying that we will get a rise equivalent to an RPI of 2.7% pa.

It explains the 1.5% for 6 months followed by the 1.2% for 6 months.

It does not say that this equates to 2.1% pa.

In fact it says that in 12 months time we will be earning 2.7% more, which is the same as RPI.

Do they assume that none of us can do O-Level maths? We can fly a 737/319 but not do percentages.

What is more he has now raised the spectre of local salaries.

Here in London we'll be ok but if you're in the regions be prepared.

People in NCL, EDI, GLA, BFS, LPL, BRS, EMA can all expect lower salaries for doing the same job as the cost of living is substantially lower (alledgedly). Not to mention pilots at DTM, SXF and ORY.

Join BALPA to stop this crap. Our crew costs are 2.1% lower than Ryanairs so it's not us that is causing the problem.

Join BALPA
Join BALPA
Join BALPA

You've got an awful lot to lose if this goes through. Can you afford not to be in BALPA?!?!

Here is few for starters:

100% Balpa membership + 100% Action =

(0% Company Income+100% reduction in share price)


Only Maths C grade, sorry.

I appreciate what your saying GNL, however I disagree strongly.

Firstly this is still a negotiation. The company have sent us a letter stating the reasons for their current offer. BALPA have done their research too.

An agreement will be forthcoming, of that I'm sure. It just depends how much resolve we wish to use to achieve a deal we are happy with.

Nobody wants to send the company bust but neither are we willing to be taken advantage of. The managers also do not want the company to go bust and are not going be stubborn enough to let it. Remember they are accountable to shareholders etc etc. The latest letter from MS is purely to scare us, a bit of spin if you like. He's omitted quite a lot from it and if he was to brief the shareholders with that attitude we woudln't have any.

A deal has to be agreeable to both sides. So far what has been offered is agreeable to one side only. They are giving us nothing. What they give with one hand they are taking away with the other. From our side of the fence our productivity has gone up on average 8% with nothing to show for it.

Their is a risk in everything, the next stage is brinkmanship. He who breaks first loses. The question is will the management let the company go bust for the sake of around 3.5% on salary and 3% on pension? It's not as if we're being greedy. We would just like to be paid the average market wage.

Adopting your philosophy will have us being paid very poorly whilst our managers get paid huge bonuses for profit in the company that we will not get a share in.

Personally I have always been 'anti' BALPA and I speak to many who havent had a good experience, but I think this is the only representative body now and one we must support if we are to get anything from a company which I am willing to give to..but not for no reward.

I cancelled my subscription to BALPA after the 'free' student period expired as both my father and many of his collegues agreed BALPA got paid a lot of money for doing very little. Indeed it is our company council that work on our behalf for no extra pay and use BALPA's 'framework' for support. We need to support them by joining, not BALPA.

I think this latest offer for many is the last straw. I know many are happy at easyJet and they gave me and many others their first break but I have no romantic affiliation to them because as they are demonstrating now, they hold their pilot workforce and indeed the cabin crew in disregard and as an annoying expense and one they seem only to happy to lose. RW's speech to the cabin crew on their graduation sums it all up 'I dont expect you to be here in 2 years..'

The 10 year book was the biggest piece of propaganda even the WWII propaganda office would have been proud of, and as for my 10 year present from easyJet, well they can have it..(or at least someone on eBay for both..)

We always get thank you emails from Mike et al saying 'Thanks for your patience and professionalism at a time of operational disruption' yet they dont seem to reward us financially, in fact we get an overall net pay cut, and loss of T & C's. I dont want to lose crew food for a percentage increase in Pension..infact I dont want to lose anything..Not when we are not cocking up and losing money as pilots. We do our job and get recognition for that by a thank you email. I pass my sim-checks, dont crash planes and dont go 'sick' despite a leave system which is quite frankly a joke. Any other manager would get a bonus for his hard work, what do we get..the offer of a net pay cut.

I am sorry but if fuel is costing so much I am not willing to subsidise the passengers by taking a pay cut because easyJet is unwilling to pass on increasing fuel costs, which every airline is having to pay, onto its customers..

Do we really need a 'Step Change Implementation Manager' and all the other titles I hear coming out of easyLand in the glossy sheets sent to my home address telling me about how all is well and good but we need to be taking less and less fuel, but we are still safety concious? Ryanair operate more aircraft on half the staff so I would be looking closer to home rather than pi$$ing off those on the coalface who do their jobs..

For me I have just rejoined BALPA today as has at least one other person I know and I just hope we can stop this persistant degredation of T & C's before it is too late. I am quite happy at easyJet, I love the Airbus and if I was still on the 737 I would be actively applying to Ryanair now, at least I could take the same crap with another 1k in my pocket rather than the 'our people are our number one asset but we still treat you like !!!!' attitude.

I think it is simple. Rejoin BALPA, take the cheap initial fee and see how it goes for a year if things are the same then yeh, leave disgruntled again but at least we can show our little bit of support. I know pilots are a spineless bunch at the best of times but this could be such a better place with a bit of pressure the other way for a change rather than whinging in the cruise and not doing anything about it.

I shall be joining EZ soon and so I am watching the current negotiations carefully.

I would like to make one small point, I can see that the current offer is a disappointment but predicting that little can be won from the management through this process will only serve to lower our expectations, and this diminishes our negotiating position. We would serve ourselves better by being positive and hopeful, supporting the negotiating team and encouraging membership of BALPA.

I look forward to flying with you.

Got the F*****G mail today!!! COMPLETE B******T!!!
Its all been said here by the last posters and Ive said it before- NOW IS THE TIME TO JOIN!!!! SPREAD THE WORD IN THE CREWROOMS!!!

/CP

:* :* :mad: :mad:

TRon,

Many congrats on rejoining BALPA. I share your thoughts on BALPA, although as you say, the new CC, appear to be doing a great job. It has never been more important to be a member of BALPA.

If MS and co want to know about cost savings, perhaps they could start with aircraft registrations. Why pay extra for an out of sequence allocation, ending in a jumped up manager's initials. Call that cost saving?. I could give them a very long list!.

Having just experienced the worst and most exhausting summer of my entire 18 year Commercial Aviation Career, I am appalled and enraged at this pathetic derisory offer. It was bad enough receiving JP'S diatribe, but this absolutely takes the biscuit.

It is time to unite and stand firm. We will no longer accept the cheapening of our once great profession.

What will you say next time you are expected to go into discretion. I for one know what I will say............:mad:

TRon, jeez man, you are only whinging in the cruise;christ what do you guys do on turnarounds,taxy,take-off,climb,descent approach&landing? You gotta get a lot more productive if you wanna compete in the whinging-wars with us in RYR! Seriously though all the best from the"other team", if you get somewhere I suspect the "Dublin Dragons" might sense a quelling of the flames is in order,to the benefit of all.Ever the optimist.

Hi minclean...

All I can say is get out while you still can....You might benifit from reading the post about Easy MXP...Norman Stanley Fletcher is describing the situation in EJ to the point. You should also read the letter that our Flt Ops Director wrote to all the pilots in LGW.
There are bits of it in the thread above.

You can really tell by the tone in your mail that you dont know what company your joining!

I am also encouraging to join BALPA and I am already a member.

Happy job hunting....

MS Letter... What a JOKE!!!
 

Is this guy realy serious???????????

We must NEVER accept different payscale according to base as this is the open door to the explosion of our T&C.

We get paid for the job we do NOT for the place we live!!!!!!!!

At least they admit that we have the worst management in this industry (that's what I understood reading his comments on how well we perform compared to BA and Ryan). So enough with all those new management positions, manager of this, manager of that, manager of fuelsaving project,.... there will be soon more manager than pilots in this company!

They start putting pressure on us again with this disgutting offer, so I hope we will be putting pressure on them as well when it will be time to vote,as I wish to see two questions in the ballot:

1-shall we accept the management offer?
2-are you ready to take action if the management doesn't change his attitude and come with a decent proposition?

But are the pilots in this company ready to stand up and say "enough!!"????


From a disgussed pilot.....
Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiings

Hi Guys and Girls!

As a fellow ezy pilot and BALPA member I've been reading with interest the current developments. It is with concern however, that I see that some of our distinguished colleagues aspire to a meagre 3.5% and 3% salary/pension increase. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are one of the most productive pilot workforces on earth. Why o why should we be paid less than the likes of BA, Britannia or Virgin (who actually achieve less flying in a year)?

And why should we accept an insulting company pension contribution of even 10% of basic. I for one actually want to be able to retire without having to supplement my pension by working as the local village gardener in my 'Golden Years'.

If virgin didn't aim high during their negotiations they wouldn't have achieved such a result.

COME ON LETS AIM HIGHER GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S – This is not greed this is common sense. The cost of living in this country has gone through the roof in the past few years, whilst wages have stayed pretty much static. I just want a decent standard of living. The ability to actually afford to buy a decent house would be a good start.

I resigned from BALPA after joining the company, after seeing it as a toothless organisation, that was more management than the management ...

.... the worm has turned it seems, I eat humble pie to the current CC and fall on my sword.

I will rejoin today, and offer my support while still looking for pasture new.

5/2/5/4, loss of leave, JP's letter, payrise, MS's letter.... too much.

I would like to support Mailibu77 proposal, a mere 3% is not a start.
Incremental Pay
Pay Rise
Medical Health
FO's not treated as second class citizens
Removal of 5254
More leave
Pension

As has been stated we are in this position due to poor management, so stop paying their bonus and get rid of the 'Orange loonies' in their short trousers and get real buisness men.

£2 extra per pax is nothing, yet according to MS letter would increase our profit by 117%... amazing.

We do not want to to see our company fall, but they expect Gold from their employees and repay with sh1t.

Go for it BALPA.

From the middle of the letter:

Loyalty bonus proposal: "ALL flight crew to share in the profit achieved above plan".

From the earlier part of the letter: "we will not be meeting the planned results for the 2005 financial year".

And they expect us to give away the loyalty bonus for a scheme that hinges on meeting a planned profit that they decide?

For the record, our profits this year are still forecast to be greater than last year.

By that I assume you're referring to me?

I would be happy to take the above figures. Anymore and you may start to lose my support.

I'd consider any pay rise more than 4.1% (top level of settlement this year according to BALPA) to be greedy.

3% on pension would be fine with me with a view to increasing it at next years negotiation. It is a marathon, not a sprint.

I'd be more than happy to discuss with management the removal of the loyalty bonus for incremental payscales that were the equivalent of th loyalty bonus or better and were also applied to FO/SFO.

I'm willing to stand up and be counted but if your demands are unreasonable then you lose my support.

Regarding the loyalty bonus, no one should countenance signing up to the company-proposed scheme. You have to remember that you are dealing with people who are openly stating their intention to reduce salary levels in the long term. As sure as night follows day, the only absolute certainty is that we will never meet the required levels to receive the big payouts - and the company knows it! The present loyalty bonus is the 'crown jewels' of our current pay deal - the only downside being that our FOs no longer receive it. I was delighted to note BALPA's hard line on the subject - any future agreement must benefit all pilots and not just the captains.

This is the best opportunity we have ever had to ensure that all easyJet pilots, particularly those overseas who may in the past have seen BALPA as a 'British' thing, join together to win this battle. This is not about a pile of left-wing losers trying to bring down their company - it is about hard-working, conscientious employees fighting to save their futures from unscrupulous and uninspiring individuals who would leave them in the street with nothing. The tragedy is that easyJet could be the best shorthaul airline in Europe if we had the right people running it. And by best I mean the most profitable plus offering terms and conditions that are the envy of the rest of the profession. We are here to make easyJet work - and that means working for both the shareholders (of whom I am one) and the employees (of whom I am also one). The only way that this will be achieved is by 80%+ membership of BALPA. Every single pilot at easyJet who has the remotest interest in the future of their company should join up today.

malibu 77 and flyingorange have got it spot on...

Rik Binson, I do not the see that us asking to have our T+Cs increased to reflect our importance in this company as greed. The company is low cost, I am not....neither is my mortgage, my car, my kids or the missus!!!!!

We work bloody hard for this company, it would not make a penny without us, lets all back BALPA to get us what we deserve. We should be pushing as hard as we possibly can to make sure that get what we are worth.

to quote flying orange

Incremental Pay
Pay Rise
Medical Health
FO's not treated as second class citizens
Removal of 5254
More leave
Pension

All of these matters need addressing and they need addressing now. I am actively seeking other employment but I want to be able to vote yes to a package that reflects the worth of the EZY pilot community.
:ok:

....and not forgetting ONE pay for ALL bases regardless of location....

Guys, we are all on the same side singing the same tune just in different key. Lets just get everyone together behind the CC, for once they are standing firm. They have my support and I'm sure will get the best deal they can for us.

Viva la revolution:ok:

A couple of points: firstly at the 2004 pay talks, much time was spent working out alternatives to the Loyalty Bonus, which the company has stated openly it wants to get rid of. While it may not cost the company a great deal now, there is a whole wedge of pilots soon to complete 5 years of service, and a smaller amount not far off ten. The reason given was that it goes against the company ethos, i.e. If the company only makes £1 profit, we get our bonus. The company wanted to make it a function of profit, and it was during this time the management admitted it was trying to cut costs so we knew that whatever formula for profitsharing we agreed, it was going to mean less money eventually and that was why no changes to the current system were ever introduced. It needed to be visible, because nobody trusts the management, and based on factors we could control. Sounds pretty much like the deal they are trying to put on the table now, and the current CC are rejecting them for exactly the same reason. Everything they do is about cost cutting, but have let 280 pilots in three years slip through their fingers, one has to wonder where all this is going.
One has also to remember the great Australian pilots dispute of 1989 as there are lessons to be learnt here as well. The pilots of 4 Domestic Airlines helped the management stem pay rises for many years during the tough 1980's because they said they could not afford it; the AFAP agreed to help but with the proviso that when things got better, their wages would catch up to where they were. That was a promise. When, in 1989, the pilots wanted to see their money, this had gone on for so long that the claim was for 30% to which the airline management then totally reneged on their promise despite the goodwill of the pilots. The rest is history but the lesson, as Virgin pilots learnt recently, is that when they say"They cannot afford it," means they do not want to afford it and if the pilots let the management of easyJet off the hook right now when a big pay rise is owed, then their chance to restore our wages will be gone forever.

Hi Guys
Just wondering what the lowdown is for the proposed differing pay scales for euro bases.
Is this speculation or based on fact and does it apply to the regional UK bases or just new euro bases?

I'm joining in December as a DEP in a regional base and whilst my contract reflects a common UK salary level, I'm just wondering if there are plans afoot that will affect me on promotion to LHS - ie new local contracts.

By the way, count me in on BALPA. I'm not militant but fair Ts&Cs isn't too much to ask for and in my experience, once given away, terms will be extremely difficult to win back.
I'm packing in a very good job to join Easy and I'm wondering in with my eyes wide open. For me, it's the regional base that attracts due to new arrival in family and reappraisal of priorities. However, it shouldn't be necessary to have inferior local terms, they open these bases because they make money - as soon as they don't they're closed.
I've had bad experiences of BALPA in the past - it was the most expensive bloody diary I've ever owned, but it seems the company has left you nowhere to go but down the route of collective representation. We know we can't be greedy - it's a cut throat business and the industry history is peppered with now defunct or struggling airlines that upheld "dreamland" terms for too long. But l agree with just keeping things fair and in line with industry norm.
It's common and easy for bean counters and pilots who've gone to the "Dark Side" to look at the Pilots salary bill and choose it as the first port of call in cost cutting excercises. But airlines are unique in that you will rarely, if ever, find so many similarly professionally qualified people on a single payroll. The fact is aircraft don't fly themselves(thank God) - they require a number of professionally qualified individuals to operate and lets make no bones about it - they operate currently at a profit. I am not in the least bit uneasy with earning the salary I do. No one gave me my licence, I worked bloody hard and made a lot of personal and financial sacrifices to get it - as have all of us. But the fact remains that it is a PROFESSION and not just a job and the package should always reflect this.

Anyway, rant over. I'm not aboard yet but nevertheless, would like to offer my support to the CC at this time.

Look forward to flying with you all

Profit related bonuses in easyjet to all but those at the top are worthless. They massage the figures to make your potential bonus look good, then talk it all away with orange b###sh#t. Replacing the current scheme with anything related to profit will cost us dearly.
I'd love to know also where they are getting their pilot attrition rates from...must that other Easyjet over on planet Orange where the weather is always CAVOK.
Easyjet is very short of pilots. The recruitment market is good and lots of guys are leaving. We should have the upper hand here. Lets make it count..into BALPA now guys. This has to be the time. The guys in Europe they need to be in too.

Here´s a guy from europe who just joined BALPA!

:cool:

Let´s go for it!

Spread the word, get recruiting - BALPA needs you now!!

We need to stop this B*&llsh!t in its tracks. Year after year, time after time our Terms & Conditions are eroded - Now the company want our European Brethren to become second class citizens - what next? Different rates for regional UK bases - that's what's been implied. To all the ezyPilots in France and Germany (and soon Italy), join BALPA and help us fight this and win for ourselves a package comparable with the likes of Thompsonfly & Virgin. It's no coincidence that the airlines with the best conditions have a huge percentage of Union membership. Should we be prepared to park the Jets if needs be? Time will tell!

If you are an easyJet pilot reading this thread and not yet a BALPA member, JOIN NOW.

The fight is now on and we have a cc with courage and conviction who need your support.

Click here