Swiss suspends 52 pilots
 

Basel - Swiss suspended 52 of the 72 Saab 2000-Piloten immediately temporarly from the service (kst/sda


This, after the pilots in an open letter made attentive in connection with their unclear future to safety problems.


Swiss decided to let the flightworthyness of that pilots who signed the letter examine, communicated the airline. Swiss will set everything to keep the effects on the flying operation so small as possible.

Ok, here's the translation:

52 of 72 BSL based SB20 pilots have been suspended from their flying duties, after signing a letter that stated pressure from management to be sacked is too big and this could lead to safety problems.

They are now being assessed in their capability of conitinuing their duties. I myself know very well what this means: endless talks and tests with psychologists and Aeropers biased ops managers, with the sure result that they are not capable of flying anymore (irrespective of the psychological test's results): An easy way of getting rid of those surplus pilots.

At least one of the union boards member also signed the letter, so let's see what happens.

One further step to the goal of a Crossair-free Swiss - last one please switch off the light.

OK, so the first post was a machine translation......
So do we prefer that for a heads-up or do we prefer a hyperlink to to the original (non-English) source?

Just for a laugh - here's Rraamjet's post processed to German and back to English

"as soon as the translation came in this connection, a serious topic, but I for one agrees could not not form for head still end piece of the original post. And, I laughed educating to me miserable attempts French /German/CantonesecPas in the past on. Any Pax could not of the other one, on reflection probably explains...."

:-)

as we learned on another thread, etihad wants 40 swiss pilots on lease base. they might even get these guys .......

turtleneck
I am sure Etihad does not intend to have Saab pilots on lease. They are keeping an eye on rated airbus guys.

here's what AFX says
 

BASEL (AFX) - Swiss International Air Lines said it has disciplined and suspended 52 pilots who fly for its Saab 2000 operations after they questioned cockpit safety levels in a letter to management.

The carrier also hired experts to review the pilots' flying ability.

'Following a positive assessment of their flying skills, these pilots will be re-integrated into flight operations,' the airline said in a statement issued overnight.

Swiss said it will do all it can to minimise the impact of the decision on flight operations.

'While Swiss takes the statements made in the letter seriously, the safety of its Saab 2000 operations out of Basel is guaranteed at all times,' it added.

The Saab 2000 operation comprises 72 pilots staffing a fleet of seven aircraft out of Basel.

Do I understand right, that those who have signed the letter (52 out of 72) will have to do the assessment?

regards

That’s correct. The others were unable to the letter before mailing but agree in full to the context of it.

What can only be described as a typically SWISS knee-jerk reaction. There's a lot of dirt underneath the surface of that airline, and indeed, that country! :ugh:

No they won't. The news report I've seen says that only long-haul crews are getting the chance to go to Etihad. The Saab crews are only being offered financial compensation.

The first word that crossed my mind, when I heard about this action off Swiss, wasn't shamefull but now it won't be censored!!!:* :} :yuk:

It almost has a whiff of the CX 49'ers debacle about it....not pretty.

RevMan - classic. That's about how my PA's come out, anyway!:uhoh:

More like the ANSETT scenario surely? They appear to have shot themselves in the foot. Handed management their own heads on a plate.:bored:

Sounds more like stupidity of those guys to me. Now suppose mangement was actually trying to get them jobs elsewhere (I know, maybe a more hopeful than real scenario, but anyway), then now management has all possible excuses for not having found anything for them.

'Hey boss, you promised you would get me a new job.'

'Yes. I was close to have you one, but then you admitted publicly that you were no safe pilot!'.

Really bright one, as maxalt said.

72 PILOTS FOR 7 AIRCRAFT ..... plenty of standbys then..... or not?

Too many pilots?
 

Well, it takes two pilots to fly an aircraft. That makes 35 crews for seven planes. The seven planes operate 3000 hours a month, that means every crew operates ~90 hrs. And then you have sickness and vacation....

Not TOO much room for stbys

Sorry, Dani, your "translation" was not plain correct. The "safety problems" is only the trick Swiss used to avoid the fundamental critics brought forward by the said letter: it's a question of jobs, not a question of safety.

Here is the open letter, in full, including formatting, copied from an original print:

Fair Cop
 

Dear SAAB Pilots -

Once upon a time, not so long ago, when your company was being disolved and incorporated into the new SWISS, (So What It's Still Swissair) your management embarked upon a retrenchment policy for pilots based on pilot nationality first and seniority second. I don't believe that any of you complained about the stresses of your jobs back then when your little red passport guarenteed you a position in the new national carrier and possibly eventually, on the same seniority system, whilst systematically, unfairly and xenephobically disposing of the experience base including pilots mostly senior to all of you, in your once vibrant little airline.

As the father of one of those Great Australian Crossair Retrenched Pilots, all that I can say to you blokes is: FAIR COP! You chose to abandon your colleagues at a time that your employer was behaving disgracefully. Now take it like men and stop crying in public. Or as a good soldier might say: "Shut-up and die like a man!"

Ettore, you're quite right: There isn't any indication of flight safety implication in the "open letter". But at the same time, union board member Martin Gutknecht, said to SDA (Swiss news agency): "During normal operation there isn't any danger to safety, but it could lead to it during an engine problem or the like".

It is also noteworthy that the "open letter" was only open to the management of Swiss and to the board of directors of Swiss. The letter itself has been made public by Swiss International itself - while threatening the 52 pilots at the same time that they would face immediate dismissal if they would do so! :eek:

Crew factor for an average regional aircraft is 8 to 10 pilots per aircraft, so 70 for 7 is quite normal.

And Etihad:
Forget any job offering for Saab pilots. They are offered one month salary per year of service, while they offer a wide body job for the former Swissair pilots with an offer to come back if they don't like it (although only for a limited number).
Crossair pilots are threatened to be dismissed in a wild order (whose aircraft that go away those pilots will be fired), while Swissair guys go strictly according seniority (and getting another expensive retraining).

Kapt. Ive - you're right that those pilots do not deserve a better treatment than what they did with people like you. Mainly it's not a question of discrimination but a lack of strategical and tactical know how on working disputes. They chose the wrong way then as they choose it now, that's why Swiss is where it is now and why it soon isn't anymore :uhoh:

OPEN LETTER
 

Here is the transcript of the Open letter to the Swiss management:



Open letter to the Board of Directors and Management of Swiss

We, the undersigned Saab pilots from Basle, hereby strongly protest against the further intentions of Swiss’s Management to lay off staff.

We, the Saab pilots, are extremely annoyed with a Board and a Management expecting us to fully maintain Swiss’s Basle operations – despite the fact it has submitted us a de facto dismissal months ago.

We can no longer bear superiors who are continuously and endlessly expecting us to act professionally in our cockpits but to set aside our daily frustrations at the company’s no-culture at the same time. Reality looks completely different: The number one topics in the cockpit are our anger and our fears about personal future ¬– topics which are constantly present and dominate our cockpit discussions!

We, the Saab pilots, can no longer accept the company’s Operational Safety Manager, as he seems to be adequate for «nice weather flights» only. If he took his work seriously and indeed cared about flight safety, then he would either do his best to terminate the current farce or – as the only alternative – he would resign.

We, the Saab pilots, no longer wish to receive company newsletters encouraging us to accept the situation before being laid off in autumn. One of the greatest annoyance are the continuous tales in these letters with the aim of keeping us quiet until we receive our dismissal! What we want are prospects for a positive future! According to the political mandate (i.e. a new Swiss airline based on Crossair’s economical structures), WE are Swiss! We demand work in our company and not a sum in compensation for the loss of our jobs!

We, the Saab pilots, request that any forthcoming risks of lay-offs finally be shared equally among both pilots groups (former Swissair/Crossair)! Furthermore, we demand that the agreement concluded with Board Member Bosch be put into practice consistently. In summer 2003 he urged us to agree to the dismissal of more than 50 percent of the former Crossair pilots by promising to apply the so-called zipper model (dismissals within the Swissair/Crossair pilots’ group proportional to their size) in the event of further dismissals. If Bosch cannot commit himself to his signature (the agreed course of action), we suggest that he puts his position in the Board at someone else’s disposal.

We, the Saab pilots, do not want to be abused as a form of pressure for the forthcoming negotiations regarding the new general contracts of employment. For months we have been told how unprofitable Swiss’s Basle operations are. Do WE now have to pay the price of the mismanagement caused by the Management and the Board of Directors?

We, the Saab pilots from Basle, clearly state the following: We will never accept to being disposed of that easily! Do the tax payers, who have already been cheated, finally have to pay for our unemployment money as well, in order to sell Swiss to Lufthansa even cheaper? We firmly request clear decisions from the Board of Directors and the Management – decisions that uncompromisingly reflect the written commitments made by Mr Bosch!

We are aware: It is extremely embarrassing that we have to use this kind of clear wording and have to sue our own company once more. It is a pity that Swiss’s management apparently only understands clear messages. We are simply no longer willing to accept this kind of unethical arrogance – an arrogance event trying to flout court decisions and legal contracts!

To date the undersigned are still employees of Swiss and wish to be treated and respected a such! Without any clear signals from your side, we shall make all efforts to lead Lufthansa to withdraw from the contract by claiming damages between ten and hundreds of millions Swiss Francs from Swiss.

WE THE SAAB PILOTS FROM BASLE ARE SWISS

Boys, 2 years ago you were already in the same scenario and you did nothing else.
Now the !!!! is coming again and the Swiss union behaviour is only reflecting the pilot corps itself:
Swiss workers are not able to defend their right, they have been cheated by the goverment and the employers. Reaction none!

Times will never be like before, only worsening and crying is no help, acting is however...

Come on and wake up before it is too late, sometimes one have to take risks to make things happen...:bored::mad:

Kiling goose that laid golden eggs
 

Yep, Crossair pilots were stupid enough to slaughter the goose that laid golden eggs in August 2003, when for various reasons (fear, greed, xenophobia) a majority voted to accept the crappy proposal from management.

The junior pilots voted mainly in favour because they wanted the money to make a new start somewhere else.

Senior pilots voted mainly in favour for because they though that this sacrifice (mainly foreign pilots) would make the peace with the ex-Swissair überpilotinos.

I can understand the concern that these Saab pilots have, because for almost 3 years Crossair pilots have been under constant and real threat of termination, unfortunately it´s their own fault as they sold themselves out in August 2003. They just didn´t realise it back then. :hmm:

So now they float on sh!t creek without a paddle, waiting for Judgement Day with only two options left: 1) accept that it´s over, or 2) industrial action.

My guess is that they will go for option #1. Why? Because they said so themselves: :8

WE THE SAAB PILOTS FROM BASLE ARE SWISS
 

Sound like : We the people of los Estados Unido de América.

Nice letter of independence. But whom does it serve? And who's to blame for this situation in the first place? My guess: ALL involved. Starting at the former Swissair managers (a bunch of tarts with overblown cojones) all the way to Crossair pilot representation, then and now (a bunch goody of two-shoes with HUGE chips on their shoulders) IMHO.

As Kapt. Ive said, take it like a man – the reaming only hurts in the beginning – and on that note, let me express my sympathy to all foreigners that were dismissed solely on that criteria. However, and as sad as it is to see how pilots are being treated by their ever so ignorant management, it is too late to defend those that are gone and those that will go.

It is done!!

Try finding a new job, get a type rating on Scarebuses and Vomit Comets, get out of there, and try to get it on! Smell the coffee! Get a hint: They Don’t Want You! – They don’t even like you! Its Swissair ermm… Its Swiss!

WE ARE SWISS!


Jawohl mein Führer!

These guys need to be careful. Let's face it a rating on a Saab 340/2000 is hardly one thats in huge demand right now. If they feel stressed imagine how they will feel when they have NO job to worry about. My advice, suck it up or get a real type rating before shooting yourself in the head. It does not matter if you are Swiss, a Swiss roll, a Swiss cheese or a Toblerone! Hmmmm! Toblerone (Homer Simpson style)

Now that my sides have stopped aching and I'm able to stop laughing just long enough to comment here again:
The wheel has turned full circle, I rest my case! Enjoy the good rogering guys (as you rogered your colleagues) and my son and I shall be there to watch you pick up your final payslips at last. BTW, don't let the door smack you on the arse as you go!!!

Does anybody know how to make a middle-finger-up in vBCode?

It has been announced that SWISS, formerly SWISSAIR , is to reForm under the new name SWI.

This strategy is to allow three more attempts should this fail.

Pilot applications are invited for the final company "S"

KAPT IVE-

Swiss pilots also lost their job during the first round of dismissals- and lots of non swiss, such as teabags(reference to toblerones) and others kept their job- maybe you should look at the legal context.
So shut up and die like a man-

Vfenext,

Saab 340 are gone and those guys have other ratings now like BAE145 or EMB145.

The BAE145 will be replaced by EMB170 and they will be flown by...guess who?

Heil

Sorry, it's a BAe 146, and those have long gone in Crossair, they use the Avro RJs (I admit, the difference is little).

Swiss will never buy EMB175/190 because they don't have the money, LH City line also has Avro's (they even intend to buy more) and because Swissair-guys avoid flying a "regional" aircraft by all means, they wouldn't have those fancy Airbus ratings (with the link to the wide bodies) anymore.

Dani

Swiss pilots should bite the bullett and just get on with life. Put your children in a public school, sell the cars, get a loan. Get a 320 or similar rating and follow the contracts. Early acceptance of your poor position is essential. Its a new start, like year 1989 Australian pilots, like Ansett pilots and like PanAm pilots.
Its not easy, but you won't be the first or last to do it.
I speak from experience

And?
 

What is so significant about being Swiss? Apart from military service, Zivilschutz and voting rights within Switzerland, you are the same as the rest of us. The airline you work for is no longer Swiss, so some adaptation here is needed. Welcome to the rest of the world.

(Former gastarbeiter in Basel meself, heh heh)

To get back to the topic:

"Without any clear signals from your side, we shall make all efforts to lead Lufthansa to withdraw from the contract by claiming damages between ten and hundreds of millions Swiss Francs from Swiss."

Do these guys really think that this course of action will save their jobs? So ridiculous!

It is a hard time for pilots nowadays, but saying they can't guarantee safety it was THE ONLY THING TO DO for Swiss not to let them fly again.

Guys, when do you start facing the economic truth?

BTW: I am from Basle, but luckily working for a different company...

@autoflight

Just for the record: Hardly anyone working in this particular industry or country does anything else. Private schools? Well, you know, actually this country does not need too many of those for it's inhabitants because we manage to get proper education from our public schools. So I doubt that anyone concerned here fits that profile you are suggesting, same goes for "cars".

Get a loan for a typerating? As a normal, taxpaying citizen who has probably not paid off the loan required to get the job in the first place? You've got to be kidding me.

Obviously, those guys on the SB20 are on the very short end of the stick and I guess if anything, they don't need patronizing from people who don't know the first thing of what life is here.

Robert,

Always nice to see your comments on the Swiss situation. :yuk:

Quite a few of those "greedy" people had a clear idea of what they would be doing, quite some are flying for other companies happily. They were offered money as a compensation, so they went for it. At the time, most of the press and other "experts" were predicting the end of Swiss to be imminent. So I wonder who would not have taken the money and ran, particularly if there were other jobs available? I know a good bunch of people who are flying elsewhere happily after accepting the money enough to pay back loans and draw a line. What's wrong with that?

For the record, also quite a number of Swissair pilots and ground staff, including your's truly, were on the road in late 2001. Not one of them has gotten compensations to my knowledge, I certainly did not. Economic realities, fueled by cross brand hatred and self destructive mechanisms that lead to the downfall of the Swiss airline industry in the first place. I don't see much other countries where this would have been possible.

Swiss aviation politics and the way this fight has been going, resulting in the loss of 2 prime brands in aviation history in replacement for one that is now in foreign hands is one of the worst chapters of political and economical history in this country, unfortunately an example on how Swiss politics are at this stage on a larger scale. So should one blame those who get out and look for a new life elsewhere? Not hardly.

AN2

That's some pretty good commenting, actually some of the best on this thread. Nice to see that you dot the t's and cross the I's. And your perfectly correct on the politics and that this could only have happened in Switzerland. None the less, as they say "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall" and yes, it isn’t the employees salary that will bring down a company. But the mentality of Swissair as a company sure did!! And the huge chip on Crossairs shoulder did work miracles for them in the aftermath of the SR grounding in late 01. None the less, it is the way it is now! All the whining – we were Swissair – we were Crossair, industrial actions, and all the would haves, could haves and should haves are as good as altitude above, runways behind and unusable fuel! Lets face it and call it the way it is!

YOU FECKED IT UP!

Now get on with it!

If the recent 777/787 order vote in AC is any guide, LH can look forward to lots of "Air Canada/Canadian" type strife in its new acquisition unless the Germans purge one group or the other...

Hi N380UA,

Thanks.

"Only" I am not too sure, but Swiss mentality is certainly a good breeding ground for such stuff. Drives me crazy.

Full agreement here, however, I don't think it should be forgotten. Rather serve as an example on how not to do it and beware of repetitions.

Goes for the remainder of Swiss aviation politics as well. After all, the Swissair/Crossair saga is not the only thing that went seriously amiss recently.

Best regards

AN2 Driver

Check and cross check - except something's still wrong.

Concerning multi million law suit:

Some of you don't seem to know the extend of what's going wrong in Swiss. There isn't just political mishap or unwise management acts, there are easy to prove breaches of contracts, agreements and letters.

If something like this would happen in a well known part of the world of aviation, like with Ryanair or Qatar, you would see ppprune litterally flooded.

There is a lot unsure about the future of Swiss, but I do not doubt that former Crossair pilots get their rights and/or the money.

Dani

AN2, Kaptin

Thanks, ya'll got me point and the bit of tong in cheek. Of course I stand corrected we cross the t's and dot the I's.

Dani

If you want more notoriety on this subject i.e. the likes of Ryan, Qatar or even Cathy and Swiss is indeed beyond legality being in breach of contract, than bring it on in clear and certain terms and PROVE it. Otherwise ya'll sound like a bunch of whining idiots that lost the play in 2003 and however sad it is to lose the job, its economic reality.

N380UA, It's not me to prove the facts but the neutral institution of the people (which isn't the government in this case).

Since this war broke out, courts have given the right in every single point to the pilots. Be it during year 2000 Swiss Pilots against Crossair, be it 2003 Swiss Pilots against Swiss.

I have no serious doubt that they will also win the next round.

BTW, I'm not member of this honourable club anymore, so I'm not whining, rather streamlining the facts.