Four or five trips per month usually one will be long range (LAX,SFO,HKG,NRT,MEX,CPT,JNB), the rest will be a mix of three or four day trips. There's no real short haul work unles you're on reserve and get to ferry an aircraft to the maintenance facility at Cardiff, which is pretty unusual. In terms of medium haul, well that really depends on how you define medium. There's a daily Cairo but thats about as short as it gets.

Unexpected Type Changes...
 

Just getting back to the issue which seems to be worrying quite a few of you: Expecting to start on LH and being shunted to another type.

Well, that sort of thing happenned to me post 9/11 and I admit that I was lucky to end up back on LH after only 2 years. For the guys with start dates early next year, things are different and here is why:

The B777 fleet is currently very short of F/Os and the training system is expecting something like 43 F/Os before July. BA would not be recruiting DEP's onto LH unless they really had to. DEP's tend to be a higher training risk and experience is accrued more slowly.

There are many SH F/Os who are annoyed at being stuck where they are since they too would like LH. What's worse is that post 2006, the chance of a SH to LH move will be smaller as everything will tend to stagnate for a while.
In summary, if you have an early start date Jan-Mar, I think things are looking good for you. Any later and you should keep your eye on the situation. It can change pretty quickly!
Once you start type training, I would give you a 90% chance of staying on that fleet.

LFW

Thanks for the post LFW, good to hear!

How long did it take for you guys who have been accepted to find out you were successful after the sim day? (Or equally not successful!)

Many Thanks
TFG (still waiting after 2 weeks)

I did my sim on friday and had a call on Monday to let me know but I have heard it can vary depending on their workload and backlog.

Hope you hear the good news soon.

I would imagine that if you are ex-Military then you should be hear in the affirmative very shortly.

Alas I suspect BA, once again, will select mostly civilians to fill their places which will cost them in the long run.

LF

Now, now Flash, you know the fishing season doesn't open for a few weeks yet!!!:O

Oh how odd - a civilian Airline selecting civilians to fly their Aircraft ?!?

Whatever is the world coming to !!? :\

I must not take the bait.
I must not take the bait.
I must not take the bait.

:E

I seem to remember last time I did this, both Flashy and I were moderated (removed). Hopefully history will repeat itself. :hmm:

The truth,once again,hurts.

As for civilian airlines hiring civilians of course they do.

However have you ever asked yourself why airlines base their operation on a military type structure with rank and respect?

The reason is that it works and the more ex-military employees a company has the better.

One of the problems at BA now is that there is a lack of respect for flight crew. This is mainly due to a shortage of people who have served their time for their Country and had it too easy in a liberal society without discipline or respect.

National service is sadly missed in our society. It would at least teach respect for ones betters.

LF

Can't somebody remove him before he ruins a perfectly good thread?

Oh come on, I actually find Lord Flash quite amusing you know. Less of this namby, pamby wet pants attitude or it's the Women's Royal Auxiliary Balloon Corps for you my lad!!!

The problem is not so much that the post is something to laugh about, it has got nothing to do with the thread!
So start up a new thread if you want to spill your beans about lack of respect for a pilot.
Let's get back to the original postings pls.

ps. could somebody write me a pm about what to expect for the BAC1-11 sim check and what you did to prepare for it? Any standard pitch power settings etc?
Thanks

SZ

Sim Check
 

In the same boat at SZ, can you include me in on the PM as well ref the sim

Cheers

I am afraid if you cannot take a few, quite obvious, windups from Lord F, then please steer well clear of BA!

There are many genuine frustrations in BA, borne out of departments that have nothing to do with flying, ineptness, stupid instructions that are best disregarded, and a company that really is still stuck in the 60s as a nationalised industry...

"I would imagine that if you are ex-Military then you should be hear in the affirmative very shortly"

Flashart is correct even though his grammar is not very good.

The ex-RAF guys run BA now. Management is becoming very very authoritarian and it's quite sad to see.

Make that ex-Navy guys!

Before I joined my current airline I heard the same nonsence regards military vs. civilians.

As our airline had a large contingent of military pilots and being a civilian myself I expected to be treated with prejudice. To my surprise the whole bunch turned out to be fantastic both on the airplane and downroute. I think there will always be exceptions but on the whole they are just pilots sharing the same office space and doing the same job. So the less we worry about where we come from and more about where the accountants would like us to end up the better. Military or Civilian does not bother me....................Just SHOW ME THE MONEY.....

Leave
 

Anyone know how leave works for new joiners ?

When do you first become eligible for leave ?

grumpy sod,

I like your style, you will fit in well at BA.

When you do the induction course visit pre-ops, for your fleet, on the 3rd floor of Compass Centre and have a word. I doubt it will be granted until line training is finished.

cheers

zzz

Leave
 

zzz,

Many thanks; wasnt after a specific date just wanted to know when you start accruing it ?

Reason is i may have some time off before i start, just deciding if the mrs should use her holiday entitilement if i'm not getting much later in the year....

Can anyone give a succint precis of how the lhr shorthaul bidline system works? Are there any good links on the web on how it works and why does LGW have a different system - i.e. not the actual bidlines but the whole system processing?

Shorthaul bidline works vaguely like the following (numbers are just guesswork and not precise):

Say you have 250 FOs on a fleet. Pre Ops produce 200 complete rosters ( trip lines), 20 reserve lines (month of standby) and 30 are whats called 'blind lines' with no work on them. The lines are all published at stage 1 and you bid for them in seniority. The goal is to achieve a certain level of work called CAP. Some lines are at CAP, some slightly above, others slightly or much below CAP. Any pre-allocated duties, eg trips carrying in from previous months, sim checks,line checks, etc will take precendence over any conflicting trip and clash it off your line. All the clashed out trips drop to stage 2.

At stage 2 all the remaining trips are published and you bid for them in seniority order to pick up enough work to take you to CAP. If you go over CAP the credit goes into a personal bank. If you go under CAP the deficit is taken from your bank or if you have no bank they dock your pay (first 6 months you can have a bank overdraft whilst you build your bank up). If you want to work a bit less you can bid below CAP and take the financial hit. If you bid lower than CAP -15 you are 'wiped' and assigned a blind line. If you bid below CAP but above wiping level you can be assigned extra work under certain conditions.

If you don't have the seniority for a trip line or your don't bid you get a blind line. This is where the company build a line for you from all the trips left over after stage 2. You are credit protected, which means you are considered to have met CAP even if they actually roster you less work. Expect to work every weekend.

Reserve comes into play three months after your final check. Reserve is allocated in a points system and new entrants join with fleet average points. He who has least points is most vulnerable to reserve. Reserve will be a continuous block of 28 days with 7 days off (usually a block of 2 and a block of 5), with 21 days available for work. One airport standby, the rest is home standby with 2hrs notice to work, but usually much more. There is little predicatability, so don't plan on having a life during that period.

One other feature worth knowing about is 'Forced Draft'. This is basically compulsory overtime which is assigned in juniority order when the company have botchde their work coverage. Its lucrative but try telling that to the stack of people force drafted on Boxing Day and over New Year last year. If drafts about either take the cash or turn your phone off.

Ta for that - is there any sort of VIP system for booking specific dates off - e.g. wedding anniversary? Again is that seniority related?

You an approach a flight manager or fleet support manager and ask and they may protect you with no credit. However it is at their discretion so I wouldn't hold your breath. You may get lucky but bear in mind once you've asked and its refused you've had it.

It is not seniority related and decided upon on each case.

Leave isn't on seniority either but leave points accumulated. School holidays get low points non popular time high. The higher your leave points on a status list the higher your leave choice. Not sure if you join with 0 or average (a la reserve).

NN

I am assuming then that you can't ask for too many days off as VIP? Seems a randomn way of getting them approved in a company with such a mania for systems and processes?
How did the LHR and LGW volve so differently?

AH64...

There is no VIP "system" in BA... As a new entrant, plan on being rostered every weekend outside leave, and you won't go far wrong.

What n_n is referring to is a system whereby for strong compassionate reasons you may be "let" off a duty you were rostered for. Strong reasons are just that. NB to BA, something as trivial as your own wedding day should be arranged to coincide with your leave etc.

Of course, there are all sorts of namby pamby euro / New labour laws which can get you time off - Parental Leave, Dependant's days etc. which they cannot deny.

In summary: no - and something like that would not be regarded as anything like strong enough to use the system n_n refers to...

HTH

NoD

How much leave do BA pilots get? And do you have a free day wrapped around blocks of leave or are you rostered straight back into work?

MAX:cool:

Yes but Flight Ops have given an asurance to BALPA that they will try and accomodate a request in advance for certain days off and protect you with no credit before the bid opens.


Believ t when I see it though.

Leave

Winter/summer spilt evenly.

We have leave wrap days and duty free weeks.

Wraps are three days and go at the end or beginning of your leave block

so

7 day block +3 wraps
8 day block +3 wraps
or 15 day block +6 wraps

7 days Duty free

in both summer and winter.

Wraps can be lost under certain circumstances and you can work in wraps and DFW if you wish.

Leave you can't.

NN

I would add that wraps are not extra days off, they're just days you can choose not to be allocated work. If you don't work them you'll have to find the credit somewhere else, which means a bank withdrawal or working like a dog for the rest of the month.

The contract that BA sent to me refers to the "Pilot Agreement".

I presume all questions about leave, pay etc are answered in this document.

Does each base have its own Pilot Agreement?
Where does one access this document?
Is it available electronically?

Thanks in advance,

T29.

1. Err, yes I think.
2. Only two bases. LHR and LGW. Think the agreement is the same, but the scheduling rules need to be read in conjunction, with LHR on Bidline and LGW on Carmen.
3. BA ought to provide you with a copy, but failing that try BALPA.
4. Yes, but probably only from BALPA.

Mate of mine wanted the same thing - access to the t's and c's and BA said he could go to LHR and view it under supervision. Can;t work out why they do not just send it like any other company. Surely contracts are considered slightly untenable if the employee has not been given sight of all the t's and c's?

So if you were at the age that BA still offered you a postion but there was virtually no chance of a command, either short or long haul. Then surely it would be in your interest to hold out for say that 747-400 postion and enjoy what left there is of your career in the RHS, albeit going to all those places you have always wanted to.:ok:

AH64...

The Ts and Cs are strange in BA, because in the majority, they are decided by the "agreement" i.e. between BA and BALPA.

The effect is that BA could quote you a starting salary of £40K, and 2 weeks after you joined, you salary is cut to £20K. All legit, if in accordance with BALPA. Naturally, only a theoretical situation...

Not quite sure where this sits in law, but presumably OK...

NoD

That is a bit strange - what happens for those folks not in BALPA but in BA. Surely they could claim their contracts being negotiated by people without their interests at heart?

My point previously was that in theory they could also turn around and say to you that actually you only have one day off a year holiday and cos you have signed the contract you would be stuck!

AH 64...

That's why your contract says Ts & Cs are determined by the "Pilots' Agreement" i.e. negotiated by BALPA. If you don't like the concept, don't join BA...

Yes - they could negotiate you down to 1 day a holiday... However, there's probably a Euro law against that :)

Its not ideal.

Over 3000 pilots pay their 1% to BALPA and enjoy (for the most part) the favourible T+C's negotiated and policed by them.

The other ***** get it all for free minus discipliniary/legal support.

NN

erm Mr Moderator. Whats wrong with the word scabs? Because that's what freeloading non-members are.

Do BA still have 3000 pilots?

Just under. Oliver Cromwell, or whatever he calls himself this week, has been crowing on the corporate brainwashing day (OOF) that we have just under the 3000 mark but flying substantially the same size flying program as when we had a couple of hundred more.