BA verses EZY
 

Ok, here the deal. Currently flying an Airbus for a charter company which is contracting and has no commands for the forseeable future. Absolutely nothing.

Given that anyone joining BA would go to the airbus and do 7-800 hours per year or go to EZY and do 8-900 hours per year, why do we hear so so much about pilot fatigue levels in Easy when they are 'only' doing 100 hours per year more. Which works out, very roughly at an extra days work a month.

Any light shed on this would help make decisions a little easier!

OK, I have experience of neither commercial flying on a shift basis, or any experience of these two operators BUT I have experience of lots of different shift patterns and how they affect fatigue.

In my old job (ATC), fatigue is obviously a major thing to be avoided. We did a 4 on 2 off pattern, starting with a Late (4pm-10pm), then going to a Afternoon Swing (12pm-6pm), then Morning Swing (9am-1pm), then Morning (7am or 6am to 11am or 12pm).

This pattern allowed lots of recovery time and I was not in the slightest bit fatigued.

I also have experience of a 2 early, 2 late, 2 off shift pattern. This absolutely killed me, to the point where I went onto night shifts because the hours were better.

Possible explanation? Maybe someone on EZY, RYR or BAW can enlighten.

Not if you're junior.

Boeing 7E7.
A very good question!

Forget all about bidline etc , it won't be of any benefit to you . Basically; senior guys benefit greatly. BUT IT'S ALWAYS AT SOMEONE ELSE'S EXPENSE!

I'd put forward the argument that fatigue ( BA SH @750hrs vs EZ SH 850hrs) is similar because the "hassle" factor at LHR is very exhausting.

For example, I think I'd rather do six sectors say BHX/DUB rather than 4 sectors LHR/CDG.

LHR means;
holding on almost every approach, frequencies so busy you can't get a word in, no stand on arrival, no busses for pax disembarkation, slow security procedures, crossing busy runways to get to T4, crummy BA ground /baggage handling, unionised "jobsworth" bus drivers etc etc ( you get the idea!)

Easy presently operating 6 on 3 off with a crippling change from earlies to lates on day 4. Now about to trial 5 early 2(full)days off 5 normal/lates then 4 days off prior to recommencing earlies. Looking forward to going to work again.

Rgds,

Slonie :ok:

Comparing BA Airbus shorthaul out of LHR to Easy A319/737NG out of Luton/LGW, which would be the preferrable position as a junior FO? Would you be flying a comparable number of segments per day for each? Just focusing on those two positions (excluding opportunity for BA longhaul), which is the one you would prefer and why?

Cheers

if you are young (20's) then I would think that BA is the better option due to the ability to switch fleets and maybe even have a longhaul command before retirement. Guys who join BA in their 30's are unlikely to see a longhaul command before retirement. I wouldn't think there is much difference in the working days between EZY and BA on the bus..apart from BA nightstopping more. I know guys working for each and believe it or not the EZY guys on the bus moan less than the BA ones!!
T's and C's at BA have really changed now compared to the 'good old days'. Now the pension is coming down to meet the rest of us too. It's still a career though...if you're young enough.

Have been at EZY for over 3 years averaging 640 hours a year - where did the 850 hours a year come from? As far as I am aware line trainers do the most hours here - many over 800 a year.

Shuttleworth, completely disagree with you.

First try working for Ej then compare apples and pears. It is not mandatory to check for roster changes at BA after every flight. The roster is stable. The hours that you are referring to at Ej is maybe duty not flight time.
Why is there a lot of anti-BA sentiment on PPRUNE?Why?

BAs standards are a cut above the rest and they do know how to look after their crews.

Given the choice most guys/gals would Love to work for BA- hands down. Period.

Sir Don

Q:-
A:-

Because of attitudes like this-

At easyJet,

Home most nights ( no nightstops for me this month :D)

Long days

Regional Bases

Yes we have to check for roster changes but haven't had any severe disruption to my roster in over a year. Rostering over the last six months has improved beyond belief. Now we're about to trial 5/2/5/4 which I'm looking forward to.

Adequate T&C

My view on BA:

Away a lot.

Long days

Bottom of seniority list for a long time

No regional bases

Stable rosters

Average T&C

I think a lot of people would disagree with your last statement Sir Donald.

Which BA standards were you talking about Sir Donald?

Scottie
’’A cut above the rest’’- that’s what it means.
Let me think.

1.Designer uniform and high vizz can anyone see me colours-get real.
2.Route structure,
3.Diversity,
4.4 sector days or 6?
5.Roster stability,
6.Hotel accommodation,
7.Minimum rest,
8.Crew transport,
9.Crew meals,
10.Dedicated staff,
11.Reliability,
12.Where do you actually check-in for duty?
13.Career progression and paths available, yea yea command in 3 years and then what?
14. Resignations per month, workforce satisfaction,
15. One is a career airline ,the other is a stepping stone.
16.Staff travel, etc etc etc shall I keep going my oblivious friend/
How many people are off or have been off on stress, at BA hmmm, unheard of unless???

I used to work for BA (not as flight crew though). I can truly say they are a cut above the rest .Only wish that I was flying for the world’s favourite
However give it some time.
G’Day,
Sir Don

1. Designer Uniforms? Do you really go to work for that?
2. 78 destinations throughout Europe
3. Majority of days are 4 or 2 sectors. Only GLA, EDI & BFS have six sector days and these have been reduced, normally only one or two on roster per month.
4. Roster Stability - mine hasn't changed significantly in about 6 months.
5. Hotel Accommodation - well since we are home every night we don't need it, get it? However I've stayed in Marriotts, Thistle and Holiday Inns with eJ. Personally since I get perhaps one night away per month I'm not bothered.
6. Minimum Rest - ask your BA shorthaul collagues about that one!
7. Crew Transport, why when we are 10 min walk from the aircraft at my base?
8. Crew meals, yep we get em.
9. Dedicated staff? Ha ha make me laugh - a bunch of whingers like the rest of us!
10. Reliability - expand please
11. I check in at my crew room, don't need a fancy crew centre.
12. Career progression - well some of us are quite happy in what we do. I have no wish for long haul or pseudo management positions.
13. As part of the workforce I am satisfied. People will move on to the like of Virgin to try longhaul, if thats their wish so be it. Bit like BA pilots leaving for Emirates & Cathay I suppose....
14 easyJet is a young company and I hope the staff travel improves but it's not a decision I make when looking at employers. I'd rather be home.
15. Sorry I don't know any eJ pilots on stress leave so perhaps you could enlighten me?

Having spoken with some retired BA skippers they've said there is no point in any of us joining BA as the company is not what it once was and the career opportunities at my present company are better.

Carry on with points 16 - 100000 as I'm really enjoying this :ok:

Actually far more Cathy and Emirates guys move to BA than the other way round. This month I am flying with two ex-Cathay and one ex Emirates. Grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence. In my humble opinion the chaps that are constantly moving airlines seem to lose out long term. It was always thus.

Having said that I don\'t think I have ever flown in BA with an ex Easy pilot! Maybe that points to Easy being a good employer, food for thought.

JustBelowCap,

Yep I think you're right about the people constantly moving around lose out. At least in BA to try varied flying i.e. longhaul/shorthaul you don't have to move companies.

Each to their own though :ok:

On the other hand, I have not had to sit in the right seat for years and years with BA, earning an F/O's salary and sucking the hind tit at the bottom of an iniquitous and indefensible bidline system.

In my 25 years of civil aviation I have spent precisely 1 year in the right seat. The rest of the time I have been earning bloody good money in the left seat and have a very nice final salary scheme pension to show for it.

Despite flying for several operators, I have earned much more dosh than I would ever have got if I had gone into BA 25 years ago and I have certainly had a hell of a lot more fun!

"Having said that I don't think I have ever flown in BA with an ex Easy pilot! Maybe that points to Easy being a good employer, food for thought."

Since BA haven't recruited any pilots for 3 year, I guess that's not surprising.

At the end of the day, no other airline can offer a more varied career than BA. Though it does of course have it's drawbacks.

Horses for courses.... blah!

Movin´ up in this world...
 

So it´s no longer EZY vs Ryanair, but now it´s EZY vs BA! :eek:

Yes, but 2 days ago I flew with an EZY pilot who was ex-BA, and mainline at that!!

Tandemrotor
 

"no other airline can offer a more varied career than BA" ...

AF/KL/LH/ in Europe
AA/DL/CO in the US
QF/JL/TG in Asia

Shall I continue?

PS
At the end of the day, it's midnight :E

FFF

No other airline can offer a MORE varied career than BA

English not your first language?

Being an easy veteran of one year there is no doubt in my mind that this is purely a stepping stone. It all depends on your age. If you are young go for the flag carrier, if not and especially if you live or would like to live in the provinces then easy is an option.
Easy has a few positive points, newish machines (apart from the ex Go 300's, where did they find them!) Most importantly they are hiring and will continue to do so, be advised though that the screening is no sunday stroll. Time to command is relatively short, although I have been told by my base captain that there are no more course places this year as FO's cannot be spared, good news for the Parc guys!
Negatives, well there are plenty! Don't believe the hype about orange culture it is complete rubbish, they try to model themselves on South West but only play lip service. Training at CTC, I have never been to one place with so many conceited ******'s under one roof. It is only a rolls royce course (as the manager tells you on day one) because they are charging so much money that all the instructors can afford to drive them! To be fair a few of the instructors were good. I will fly at least 850 hours this year, no doubt, and so will the majority of my colleages if not all at our base. That is alot of short haul flying in busy airspace, you will be tired at times. I would say staff travel is a joke but it is not funny anymore, (strangely enough our CEO has industry travel as he still consults for ANZ), but the workers at the coal face get a very poor deal indeed.
In short a flag carrier (like BA) has far superior terms and conditions than any low cost airline ever will, it is not a difficult decision.

Safe Flying and keep smiling , it makes the management nervous!;)

I think BA's terms & conditions are only gonna get worse to be able to survive (look at the new pension deal)
1 bn pension debt.........

Ezy terms & conditions will only get better to able to retain their crews.

By the way.... 3 ezy pilots have walked away from the BA interview last month. New pension offer worse than EZY's present!


Regards

I'll put up any ex-GO machine against the likes of Yankee Bonfire or Yankee Dog you impertinent swine! ;)


Horses for courses I guess. During my line training a very wise Chief Pilot said to me, "Son, there is no such thing as the perfect flying job - don't make yourself miserable trying to find it".

Which I think was very sound advice.

Cheers

WWW

Horn "(apart from the ex Go 300's, where did they find them!) "

From Go probably.:\

Sorry - just teasing :ok:

Which airline has the best looking air hostesses? Ezy seem to be hiring a lot of gay blokes (more than usual).

Why are most air hosts gay?

Tandem
 

English is not even my second language mate, if you wish we can continue this conversation in Danish, German, Swedish, Norwegian or even Spanish.

By more varied, what is your criteria? Destinations, aircraft type, freigth or pax? In those respects, BA may only offer more in the way of destinations, all the other European airlines I mentioned offer way more in the way of aircraft types and the option to go freighters. I belive GSS does not recruit from BA mainline, but please feel free to correct me.

Dansk er vist ikke dit bedste sprog, er det?

Definatley BA, the birds are better!EZY is too much like hard work. It is not a career airline but a training organisation. Good for starting a career and good for finishing a career but crap for the 35 years in between. Trust me, I left. Best move I ever. I have a life now!:ok:

The Ezy system of part time 50% rotas sounds good to me. If your a captain i belive you can earn 40k for 2 weeks work a month.

Is Easy the only one who offers part time?

7E7,

It would seem to me, from your opening comment, that you are seeking a speedy command. If that is the case, then BA is not the solution.
What does matter is whether you are seeking a career. In that career you may want a choice of flying different types and on different - long/short-haul- routes. In that case an LCA is not the solution. In LCA the last year will be very similar to the first. A speedy command, but then perhaps years of boredom doing the same old same. However, familiarity may bring some contentment, or the early command will give oportunity to seek other adventures.
Financially, from some posts, a good life can be had in LCA's at 75% salary. In a major you probably get the same at 100%, and the fringe B's will always be better, e.g. interline.
What is of consideration, and ask some of your peers about this, is that LCA's may retire you at 60, but perhaps you may need to go longer for financial reasons, whereas most majors release you at 55 with hopefully a decent retirement pot to allow you free choice what to do. (please dont start a thread about BA's new pension plans not being final salary).
It all depends whether you are seeking a life style or an elevation in rank. A long-haul command is no big deal. An F/O has the same thrill just less money for doing it. IMHO the long-haul flying should be done by the under 45's anyway, F/O or captain, then revert to short haul. A major will allow you to bid for long-haul types as an F/O, experience the life style and make your choices when command comes later.
It's not so simple a question after all; it depends on your expectations and ambitions.