PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Terms and Endearment (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment-38/)
-   -   The Master List (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/631976-master-list.html)

Whitemonk Returns 28th Apr 2020 08:40

The Master List
 
Feeling its important we keep a track of what our employers do over the coming months so that down the line we can all make educated decisions on who can be considered employers of choice, once the choice returns.... Worth mentioning not only limited to financial actions but how people are treated can be included also. I will add people's comments to the original thread from time to time so it can be referred back to for easy reading, and lastly try and be factual :ok: best of luck to us all in the coming months and finally if people don't want to post publicly they can PM me and I will post the update.

Whitemonk Returns 28th Apr 2020 08:41

In no particular order:

BA: 2 weeks unpaid in each of APR & MAY, spread over 3 months. Works out to 69% for APR, MAY & JUN. Pension redirection into pay is available upon request. This adds ~21%. Threats of 12,000 staff to go including 1135 pilots beginning in June.
Update: redundancies reduced significantly, bottom 450 on the seniority list at risk with the exception of any 787/350 pilots.

Aer Lingus: All pilots on 50% part time, April, May and June. 900 company wide redundancies (20% of workforce). No pilot redundancies so far.

Virgin UK: 47% pay cut with the furlough added on top of that up until June. 426 pilot jobs to go as of May 5th, Gatwick base to close but keeping slots. All 4 engine aircraft to be retired.

Easyjet: 3 options you can choose from.1. 2 Months unpaid leave April/May then full pay assuming no more furlough. Government £2.5k.
2. 50% salary advance spread over 4 months. Then full pay.
3. 67% salary advance Spread over 6 months. Then full pay.

Options 2 and 3 include government £2.5k with the difference been made up by EZY to make the percentage. So months April and May you are in effect “borrowing money from future earnings” go back in June BUT you will receive that same percentage overall.
June: 727 pilot redundancies announced, up to 1/3 of the pilot workforce spread accross all UK bases.
Update Dec: 220 German based pilots fired using a points based matrix to comply with German law
​​​​​
​​TUI UK: furlough scheme 30k/year plus half the difference between furlough and salary. Therefore 100k normal salary is now 65k. No redundancies at present. Return to flying/full pay based on seniority.July Agreement reached:
Zero redundancies. Zero long term changes to terms and conditions. All pilots 80% pay for 80% work rate from Nov 1st . Staged recovery then based on commercial operation/requirements, going to 90% pay for 90% work rate and finally returning to full pay and 100% work rate by 31st October 2021.

Only when all pilots within base, seat, and rank, have had the opportunity to be stage 1 recalled, can stage 2 recalls begin.
Voluntary exit pathway also created for Cpts on pay point 20 or above. Yearly pay increments as per previous pay deal maintained.

Jet2: Basic salary will be reduced by 30.00% for Captains, 24.81% for Senior First Officers, 23.14% for First Officers, and 18.56% for Second Officers. Profit share and 3% payrise cancelled.
June update: Original plans backtracked on, 102 redundancies announced, primarily LIFO spread accross all fleets. All pilots on 70% pay until January 2021. Communication very poor after a solid start.
Update Dec: 70% pay extended until April, barring unforseen circumstances full pay offered to be reinstated for all crew from April 2021.

Stobart: 8 pilots including Captains and First officers kept to run government funded routes (Donegal and Kerry). All other crew laid off. Company did not sign up to wage subsidy schemes in the UK or Ireland.
Update: August, despite advertising for pilots for a new base in BHD, all 50 roles expected to be filled internally from the pool of 145 guys who were laid off.

Cityjet: has also told unions that it’s seeking as many as 700 layoffs across Europe, with 276 in Ireland and the UK affected


Logan Air: Staggered furlough system for April and May, depending on base. Some bases one month furlough, other bases two. Talks of extending furlough to July. Currently skeleton schedule, nearly all props on PSO routes. All staff taken 20% pay cut until July.
Update July: Return to flying much slower than anticipated. JRS will continue to be used for it’s entire duration. Those returning to work will be on full pay. Volunteers sought for extended furlough, part-time work, or unpaid leave as mitigation. August 2020: Terminations and redundancies started. P45s received in post, with no communication from management as to why.
Update Dec: Phase 1 redundancies: roughly 30 pilot redundancies already made (mostly consisting of Chester ERJ crew). This number excludes many pilots terminated on grounds of “contractual frustration” during the summer.

Pilots also forced to accept reduction of contractual notice period to statutory notice period (1 week per year of service. Some pilots on as little as 1 week notice). Pilots given a choice between acceptance, or putting themselves at risk of redundancy.

Phase 2 redundancies: Roughly 70 pilots from all bases and fleets being earmarked for future redundancy, based on business outlook for S21. Recovery = redundancy withdrawn and they keep their jobs. No recovery = redundancy.

Ryanair: 50% reduction in basic. Reality varies greatly depending on base country, Italy allegedly pays 80% of salary, Spain much less so, 1000 to 2000 euro a month.
May 19th BALPA RYR announce: 336 jobs to go 185 CPT / 151 FOs.
Jul 1st: 20% pay cut approved by over 90% of BALPA members allegedly, to be restored by 2024, on the assumption of jobs being protected.
​​​

Ryanair Buzz/Lauda: guaranteed Flight allowance is 12 hrs ínstead of 40 hrs. Sign the new contract or you're out. Not sure what this totals as but I'm guessing not great. More info? 43 alleged redundancies so far, cadets and direct entries. Closing VIE base after threatening crews with lower contracts that the union rejected, 300 pilots to go.

Norweigen: overseas crewing companies declared bankrupt. Just 7 a/c keep flying through April 2021, in Scandinavia. Cut the LH fleet by 50% (at least) 40-50 aircraft less means a lot of base closures to come.

SAS: laying off 50% of its staff (5000 employees).
pilots in Sweden are on 92,5 % salary, subsidised by the state. Notice period is six months, also paid. Norway no pay if furloughed, govt support up to approx. 60% pay. Depends on your wages the last 12 months - if you are new, then approx. 15-25% pay. 14 days to 6 months notice period, paid. Denmark: 78% pay, between 1 to 11 months notice period.
Update July: 559 pilots let go.


Wizz: 265 total pilot redundancies in April, 142 contractors. Apparently already recruiting for Abu Dhabi base on very poor contracts.

TAP (Air Portugal) : April until July 90% of the Pilots at home with 66% average monthly net. Portuguese Social Security Paid 2/3 up to a max of 1905 Euro. Company at their own initiative paid a complement to reach 66% monthly net (by portugueses labor law they didn't had to).
From August until December 2020 20% (A320 fleet) or 30% (A330 feet) duty reduction.
Company pays 70% or 80% basic salary plus 100% flight allowances (for te guys flying). Portuguese Social Security pays 66% of the remaining 20%,30%, witch means that on the 320 Pilots get 93,2% net, and on the 330 89,8% net. Either you fly or don't fly.
Company is keeping all Pilots current and qualified (Refresher course, LPC, OPC, Line checks, medical).
Update Dec: 500 threatened with REDUNDANCY by the company, so far unknown criteria to be used

KLM/AF: Full salaries. All pilots with a French contract and paying social contributions are on 84% of their net basic salary: state furlough scheme up to 5400€. That includes Easyjet, Vueling, Volotea, Travel Service, etc... For AF, the company pays the difference so everyone receives their basic salary.

Lufthansa:

Flydubai:
​​​​
Emirates: 50% pay cut on basic salary for April, May and June. Accommodation allowance Advances not renewed and will only be paid at the monthly rate.
Redundancies: All pilots on probation plus for now an additional 100 approx. Total number laid off is around 200. Across 380 and 777. 14 days notice, additional 30 days to get out of the country.
9/6/20 - 599 redundancies today in brutal fashion: Reported 400 from A380, 200 from B777 with a further 300 to come, seniority worthless, high percentage of those fired had sickness records.
8th July: another 840 pilots facing the bullet, rumors of another 700 to come. Rumors of a small fleet of 250 pilots to remain on the A380. Emiratization in full effect.
​​​​

Qatar: new (permanent) 25% basic salary reduction plus 25% flight pay reduction.
Tomorrow they’ll start sending the letters for Captain, First officers and second officers that will leave the company. July: 787/350 Cpts and FOs being fired in the hundreds, seemingly at random, seniority worthless as at EK.

The Unmentionable: last year around 2200 pilots..

Over the year they reduced to 1800 by showing sick and low attendance the door.
This (July) another 400 including all 60plus and expat second officers or junior FO’s who have yet to convert their MPL’s to usable licences, pay back their bonds, or accrue much of an EOSB, an alarming amount of female captains, 90% of the FI’s that came across from the academy to mainline, and then a smattering or entirely random individuals who sit in the upper parts of the seniority list.

Saudia: About 50 first officers and about 45 captains prematurely terminated. All foreigners.

Oman Air: has terrminated around 200 pilots and hundreds of cabin crew. All terminated pilots are expats, locals are safe.
All expats in the company are on a 80% salary cut while locals have a reduction from 0 to 20% depending on their basic salary.

ANA:

Air Japan:

Korean Air: expat pilots April, May and June off with no pay. Contracts on renewal mostly not renewed. Koreans on 50-70% pay?

Update, 30th June all expat FOs, all expat 737 captains, all A380 captains and any expat in training now terminated.

Cathay Pacific: 747 fleet flat out and on full pay (unless you volunteered for unpaid leave), 777 and Airbus passenger fleets on varying stages of unpaid leave, or if you're London or Oz based, furloughed.
Update Dec: legacy contracts ripped up and new contract offered to all crew, sign or see yourself put. Over 95% of crew have accepted new deal to avoid unemployment.

China: All foreign pilots on indefinite unpaid leave. Feel free to post individual airline examples. Further info incoming.

DHL: Full rosters and pay!

CargoLux:

Turkish Airlines: Under the new contract, the airline will cut approximately 35% of wages, returning to 2018 levels. The airline will not increase salaries in 2021. Additionally, the airline employees will not be able to receive bonus payments until 2022.
Update Dec: all expat pilots on indeffinete UPL?
​​​​​

West Atlantic UK - Full rosters, full pay. Some pilots even working days off last month.

Add airlines not on the list, or post corrections or expansions on any info above, and I will try and update it when able.

DooblerChina 28th Apr 2020 08:56

TUI UK: furlough scheme 30k/year plus half the difference between furlough and salary. Therefore 100k normal salary is now 65k. No redundancies at present but talk just started of leaner operation next year so who knows.

When flying resumes, people will
come back in batches in seniority order, and back to full pay.

ChrisE 28th Apr 2020 09:24

BAW - 4 weeks unpaid leave, 2 weeks in April, 2 weeks in May, with the ULV salary reduction spread over 3 months. More ULV could be coming.

bex88 28th Apr 2020 09:34

ChrisE: I hope you are right on the continuation of ULV. Not because it is brilliant but because it avoids the CR and buys everyone more time.

TBSC 28th Apr 2020 09:43

SAS: laying off 50% of its staff (5000 employees).

The Foss 28th Apr 2020 10:13


Originally Posted by bex88 (Post 10765753)
ChrisE: I hope you are right on the continuation of ULV. Not because it is brilliant but because it avoids the CR and buys everyone more time.

Agreed, keep kicking the can as long as we can until we have a clearer picture of the post Covid world.

PositiveGhostrider 28th Apr 2020 10:16

I like the idea of this thread but may I suggest changing the title to something less analogical? Hopefully the value of this thread will prove itself in the longer term, reason why I think we should make it as easy as possible to retrieve it in the future with the search function. Just a suggestion, otherwise great iniative OP!

SkyRocket10 28th Apr 2020 10:18


Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns (Post 10765690)
In no particular order:

BA: 2 weeks unpaid in each of APR & MAY, spread over 3 months. Works out to 69% for APR, MAY & JUN. Pension redirection into pay is available upon request. This adds ~21%​​​​​​

BA expecting to reduce aircraft numbers by 20% compared to pre-covid levels. There has already been talk of upto 800 pilot redundancies by a sky news correspondent on twitter . Whether this is true or not, it certainly ties up with the figure quoted by management. Tough times ahead!

Flying Clog 28th Apr 2020 10:33

Cathay Pacific - 747 fleet flat out and on full pay (unless you volunteered for unpaid leave), 777 and Airbus passenger fleets on varying stages of unpaid leave, or if you're London or Oz based, furloughed.

Captain Spam Can 28th Apr 2020 12:00

Easyjet. 3 options you can choose from.

1. 2 Months unpaid leave April/May then full pay assuming no more furlough. Government £2.5k.

2. 50% salary advance spread over 4 months. Then full pay.

3. 67% salary advance Spread over 6 months. Then full pay.

Options 2 and 3 include government £2.5k with the difference been made up by EZY to make the percentage. So months April and May you are in effect “borrowing money from future earnings” go back in June BUT you will receive that same percentage you selected over said period so it’s spread out.

This agreement was all assuming if we went back to flying June. Otherwise renegotiations for furlough extension which looks likely come end of May, which results in the above deals been extended over a longer period.

DuneMentat 28th Apr 2020 12:01

EK: 50% pay cut on basic salary for April, May and June. Accommodation allowance Advances not renewed and will only be paid at the monthly rate.

Trossie 28th Apr 2020 13:45

How many airlines are still on full pay?

Whitemonk Returns has mentioned one (or part of that airline). I suspect that two others that he had listed, but with no info, may be similar?

deltahotel 28th Apr 2020 16:12

DHL. Full rosters and pay

172_driver 28th Apr 2020 16:45


SAS: laying off 50% of its staff (5000 employees).
Until the actual notice of termination pilots in Sweden are on 92,5 % salary, subsidised by the state.
Thereafter the notice period is six month, also paid.

teej013 28th Apr 2020 17:02

BA : Sky News just announced IAG are to make 12,000 redundant at British Airways.

crunchingnumbers 28th Apr 2020 19:20

Argentina bans commercial flight sales until 1 September
 
Well this is bad news in Argentina - BBC

Hope no one else takes that lead.

Fly747 28th Apr 2020 19:36


Originally Posted by Flying Clog (Post 10765817)
Cathay Pacific - 747 fleet flat out and on full pay (unless you volunteered for unpaid leave), 777 and Airbus passenger fleets on varying stages of unpaid leave, or if you're London or Oz based, furloughed.

More to hit the fan today when the HKAOA meet the company. Not looking rosy.

AtoZ 28th Apr 2020 23:41

Korean Air expat pilots April, May and June off with no pay now extended to indefinite LWOP. Contracts on renewal mostly (but not all) not renewed.
Koreans on 50% company pay plus further 20% pay from Korean government. Koreans working part time.

Over 60s terminated?

Update, 30th June all expat FOs, all expat 737 captains, all A380 captains and any expat in training now terminated.

Wi Tu Lo 29th Apr 2020 00:24

All pilots with a french contract (actually employed by an airline with a french contract and paying social contributions) are on 84% of their net basic salary, paid for by the state furlough scheme up to 5400€. That includes Easyjet, Vueling, Volotea, Travel Service, etc...

For AF, the company pays the difference so everyone receives their basic salary.

Bison321 4th May 2020 19:27

Aer Lingus

All pilots on 50% part time, April, May and June.

900 company wide redundancies (20% of workforce).

No pilot redundancies so far among the 150 junior pilots (20%), depends if it can be offset by voluntary severance, unpaid leave and part time. More comprehensive agreement in the next few weeks.

NorthernSeeker 5th May 2020 21:28

UPDATE SAS: Norway no pay if furloughed, governmental support up to approx. 60% pay. Depends on your wages the last 12 months - if you are new, then approx. 15-25% pay. 14 days to 6 months notice period, paid. Changes to 6 months are 6 months of employment.
Denmark: 78% pay, between 1 to 11 months notice period.

Three Lions 1st Jul 2020 19:56

So would one indicator of a good employer be one who would look to share the pain across the patch rather than casting any individual onto the rocks below?

if so then I’d have to say and I admit it has surprised me, that Ryanair seems to have come good when it came right down to the real nitty gritty of it all, if of course rumours of a shared hit rather than making forced redundancies are true.

So maybe now is a very a good time to compare which outfit chose to share the pain and keep everyone safe and which decided to sling employees onto the rocks below. I’d suggest this is a good time to analyse who actually are the employers of choice.

To be used as a reference of course when things pick up and the better candidates are looking where to trust their career going forward. Now is the time to take note of the character and culture of an organisation as they are all being forced to show what they are all about

So who cut pilots adrift and who took a cut across the board?

Of course, my thoughts with any one involved in an unwanted job loss. Stay strong.

PilotLZ 1st Jul 2020 20:36

"The Hall of Shame" on eurocockpit.be was intended to provide an insight into the very worst examples of mistreatment of personnel during crisis. However, some of its materials are no longer valid as more considerate arrangements have been reached at RYR and other carriers, protecting all the jobs or the majority of them. Needless to say though, many of the airlines who proved to be a bad example of crisis management have not been listed. And the struggle in many is not even known on a large scale since they're not big and famous enough to make newspaper headlines.

Whitemonk Returns 1st Jul 2020 20:43

I have updated the list with what I personally am aware of so if people want to add more they can PM me or post on here as appropriate. I personally do not believe that we will be looking back here in 2024 and thanking RYR for their incredibly generous offer of paycuts for the next 4 years when they clearly didn't want to get rid of any pilots in the first place, but I would be happy to be proven wrong, and I am glad that no more pilots are facing redundancy today 👍

Edit: Company names in bold is an indication of direct info from posts or PMs, keep em coming and best of luck to all.

aviationvictim 2nd Jul 2020 06:38

thank god someone on this tread sees things how the actually are. I swear I can hear O’Leary laugh all the way down here in southern France🤨

nickler 4th Jul 2020 14:17

Any (educated ?) guess on which operator will be the first to clear all the furloughing and resume hiring pilots ?
My take is, based on available web info, 2023 ?

PilotLZ 4th Jul 2020 14:29

It's anyone's guess. Certainly some amount of hiring here and there will take place well before 2023. Some limited recruitment takes place even now - mostly for corporate or special operations though. What are your individual chances of getting a job within the next year depends on a huge number of factors, starting with the development of the situation globally and in your region of interest and ending with your qualifications, experience, personality and connections.

SEBBES 14th Jul 2020 06:07

Update r.e TUI
 
New Agreement reached between the company and CC.

Zero redundancies. Zero long term changes to terms and conditions. All pilots 80% pay for 80% work rate from 1st of November. Staged recovery then based on commercial operation/requirements, going to 90% pay for 90% work rate and finally returning to full pay and 100% work rate by 31st October 2021.

Only when all pilots within base, seat, and rank, have had the opportunity to be stage 1 recalled, can stage 2 recalls begin.
Voluntary exit pathway also created for Cpts on pay point 20 or above.

Yearly pay increments as per previous pay deal maintained.

Subject to ballot result soon.

Whitemonk Returns 14th Jul 2020 10:37

That's a wonderful result, I have many friends at TUI so I am happy to hear it, update re Loganair also in the list
👍

bringbackthe80s 14th Jul 2020 11:01

Good on the company

MrKipling 27th Jul 2020 07:43

Good on the pilots, they are paying for it and voted for it. Probably not sustainable though going forward as they are massively over crewed.
it would have been have been nice if all companies had tried the same.

guy_incognito 27th Jul 2020 07:46

When you say "massively over crewed", do you mean in the immediate term, or for the planned summer 2021 schedule?

MrKipling 27th Jul 2020 08:06

What is the 2021 schedule for any airline?
Sorry I cant answer your question because my info is second hand, I was told TUI was over crewed before caronavirus.

I was simply saying well done the pilots, they took one for the team so to speak.

hans brinker 30th Jul 2020 03:19

Great effort. For the lazy (me...) can we have the list alphabetized?
thanks!!

H44 30th Jul 2020 10:40

Why would TUI have been over crewed before coronavirus? They took on 100+ Thomas cook pilots so they would have sufficient crews for a pre-covid summer 20 season, not to mention a handful of third party contracts. Indeed they were still recruiting when things ground to a halt in March. They’re obviously over-crewed now but are hoping if things pick up for summer 21 that they’ll have the correct number of pilots for that.

macdo 30th Jul 2020 17:17

If you remember, TUI and J2 recruited heavily on the back of previously planned and opportunistic growth after the demise of TCG. Added to that the return to service of the MAX they had a need for crews. The current situation has left them with too many pilots but they have done a great job of avoiding redundancies. So far.

Whitemonk Returns 4th Dec 2020 17:31

Jet2 Update
 
Some positive news from Jet2, while 70% salaries is now extended from Dec to April, barring unforseen circumstances 100% of pre Covid salaries proposed to be reinstated for all crew from April 2021 👍

Biffsticksuperhero 6th Dec 2020 11:42

Someone is getting their Aprils fools in early :8

Whitemonk Returns 10th Dec 2020 12:57

Sadly, extremely negative news from Loganair
 
Phase 1 redundancies: roughly 30 pilot redundancies already made (mostly consisting of Chester ERJ crew). This number excludes many pilots terminated on grounds of “contractual frustration” during the summer.

Pilots also forced to accept reduction of contractual notice period to statutory notice period (1 week per year of service. Some pilots on as little as 1 week notice). Pilots given a choice between acceptance, or putting themselves at risk of redundancy.

Phase 2 redundancies: Roughly 70 pilots from all bases and fleets being earmarked for future redundancy, based on business outlook for S21. Recovery = redundancy withdrawn and they keep their jobs. No recovery = redundancy. This is all whilst being on statutory notice. Selection of those earmarked based on performance. (At any time in the future, those selected may be terminated with as little as one week’s notice).

BALPA trying their best to fight the company over the legality, morality, and mental health impact of what they are doing. Company playing hard and fast and unwilling to change stance, believing ends justify the means and it is vital to their survival


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:41.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.