Captain’s expectations of a new FO.
It would be great to hear from training/line captains and what your expectations of a brand new FO with zero hours would be. What subjects would you quiz them on? Also great to hear from FOs and their experiences of being challenged on different subjects. Thanks! |
Easy. I expect him/her to listen to me - even if I am an old dodderer. I have learnt a lot in fifty years and the broad yellow streak up my back has served me well!
|
pretty much nothing. I get them to fly the first 10 - 20 sectors and get used to the environment. Nobody flies well when they are being grilled for a load of pointless questions that the other bloke already knows the answer to. Everyone knows how to fly - they have a licence - so I let them do the bit they already know how to do. All the other crap can come later..
|
and I don't particularly quiz them on anything. We just work through anything that comes up. After a while, most things do!
|
Predictability
|
Not a trainer.
It takes time for conceptual knowledge to build up in such a way that you are capable of digesting what is written in the manuals. Without a year or two of experience most things you read in the manuals mean nothing. Heck, even those with 10 years of commercial flying experience are sometimes none the wiser about some topics because the rules change so quickly! |
SOP's a re a foundation on which can be built.
Initially experience is gained following SOP's to the letter, this is what initially is taught in line training and acts as the best foundation for flying when released from training. It then takes years of experience, learning from different highly experienced motivated captains to learn good airmanship and variations to SOP if required in the interest of safety. SOP's cover 99.99% scenarios, some however fall outside them, these are learnt by flying and being presented with them the flight line. There is not always a right and wrong in things either, but only one method is taught initially, to keep you and your colleagues and passengers safe. |
Prepare for each flight carefully Read the briefs for each airfield and all of its alternates,. Look at the route. The teaching of geography seems to have declined in the last two decades, so learn where the high ground is and also a bit about the political background of where you are flying over, and why the most obvious alternate may be completetely unusable. The CIA Factbook is an excellent resource. https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...orld-factbook/ |
Do not come with a calculator to add fuel figures on the OFP. Brief one’s self beforehand for the airport we would go to. Know how to handle EFB on the iPad efficiently. Aspire, show commitment and eagerness. |
Do not forget OM-C.
Contingency Procedures especially. They differ in some countries. |
Know how to say the following:
1. That was a great landing captain; 2. Can I buy you a beer captain?; 3. I will take the ugly one captain. It is a shame you will miss out on the fun real flying can give .But it seems direct to the RHS of a mini jet is the way things are done these days . .Learn as much about the aircraft you are flying as you can. When you fly with a good captain learn from them . The way they do something, the way they think, ask them questions on how they made the decision they made, observe the way they talk/communicate with crew and company, the way they lead. When you fly with the not so good captain (and you will), use the phrase "OIC" when they try and teach you garbage, and think back to what the good captain taught you . Try and refrain from starting an instagram persona being a gym/monk/ginger etc pilot . Do the job because you enjoy it, not to try and make people think you are less insecure than what we probably are . Have real friends not followers . Be truthful when you don't know something . No-one knows everything, if asked something you don't know, admit it and ask questions to learn . Be truthful to yourself when you have a bad day at work: thump the landing in, give whip lash to crew and pax when using the brakes, make a cluster of a PA or radio call. Reflect on it trying to improve . Don't become a FMC junky .be able to work out your own descent profile rather using speed brakes to keep the vert deviation at 0 . Know how much fuel your aeroplane burns in the cruise and in the hold and use the FMC to back up your calculations. Know how much fuel your flight plan will have you landing with. By this I mean in Kilos or pounds, rather than saying I have 20 min extra. By knowing this you can pick a fuel problem earlier, and before you get the EICAS or ECAM .and make a better decision on how much fuel will be required. But most all, try your best, and enjoy your flying . |
Originally Posted by CloudMedic
(Post 10209549)
It would be great to hear from training/line captains and what your expectations of a brand new FO with zero hours would be. What subjects would you quiz them on? Also great to hear from FOs and their experiences of being challenged on different subjects. Thanks! |
Don’t use a website on the internet to figure out what’s expected of you https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif |
in my company they give you a training record which lists all the topics you should know and will be quizzed about during your line training. There is a supplement there that lists all the relevant chapters in OM-A/B/C/D that one can cover to prepare. Basically in order to be released for line check you have to have all topics marked with sufficient grades from your line training captains. Generally the way it works is - you take off, establish a cruise and if the workload is low, the cpt simply asks which topics have you prepared and are ready to discuss. So basically you prepare at your own pace
But the theory questions really don't begin until you are some 10 sectors in and somewhat comfortable with whats going on. Until then really don't fall behind the plane really and don't plant it into the ground |
I wish 411A was still around to add his thoughts on this topic:eek:
|
You can't expect anyone to show up early for report let alone new first officers, nobody has a right to dictate this to any member of the crew. All I would expect is a good knowledge of SOPs and be open to a little bit of advice. The only person responsible for one's training and development is the first officer himself. Everything else will grow with experience.
|
Don't turn up smelling of beer and boasting that you were on the turps the night before. Then repeat the same boast a few days later. These cool dudes are in every airline and need an instant put down by the captain. They are potential alcoholics and a potential danger in the future unless stopped in their tracks early in their employment
|
I used to tell brand new First Officers/Second Officers - 'if in doubt, ask....and never under-estimate my ability to make mistakes..' !
|
All about the attitude for me, some stink, some are great. Can be flying with a day 1 cadet and have an easier day than a guy with a few thousand hours all dependant on the attitude. The ability to speak and understand English also helps however is sadly becoming more and more of an issue as the barrel is well and truly scraped. |
Turn up on time for the brief with the mobile stowed and on silent..
Know the SOPSs. Don't assume that Flight School/ATO has taught you everything you'll ever need to know about flying ....it's just the beginning etc, etc.. The fact that the the old git or gitess in the LHS went through Flying college or the Milittary in the days of chalk and talk, analogue instruments...and worse still knows nothing about "Love Island" does not mean they are clueless. And despite the above caveats....do speak up if you think something going wrong or you see something going on you don't understand. To my mind it is simply a question of balance and mutual respect. |
One of the most important things to try and remember about the Ops Manual, A,B,C or D, is that it is not necessary to commit large sections to memory, only to know, with a degree of certainty, where to find the answers to questions that may arise. Notwithstanding that you are expected to have a sound knowledge of the emergency checklists that require immediate actions, the 'boxed items' as some operators name them.
|
Don’t be arrogant, don’t allow yourself to become lazy. Everyday try to do something better than yesterday. Accept and embrace you don’t know it all and never will. when you get 1000 hrs read this again, when you get your third stripe read this again. Remember you can have a great day out AND do it the right way. When you have a tough day, look at the sun rise/set, the beautiful views. The fact you get to play with such a machine and forget about company politics and remember why you put so much effort into becoming a pilot in the first place. |
Originally Posted by wiggy
(Post 10213302)
.. with the mobile stowed and on silent..
|
Don hit the nail on the head - why on Earth do the newbies feel the need to start an Instagram feed. You are not the first, and not the last. We all had to train like you did. You enjoy your job - great. Don’t rub your friend’s nose in it, they might not be so lucky. You do not want your mates and colleagues to think you are a bell end. They will be talking about you, for all the wrong reasons! |
Valid point.... all seats, take note! Step away from the smart phone / instagram! |
Originally Posted by richardthethird
(Post 10214612)
Don hit the nail on the head - why on Earth do the newbies feel the need to start an Instagram feed. You are not the first, and not the last. We all had to train like you did. You enjoy your job - great. Don’t rub your friend’s nose in it, they might not be so lucky. You do not want your mates and colleagues to think you are a bell end. They will be talking about you, for all the wrong reasons! |
Don hit the nail on the head - why on Earth do the newbies feel the need to start an Instagram feed. You are not the first, and not the last. We all had to train like you did. You enjoy your job - great. Don’t rub your friend’s nose in it, they might not be so lucky. You do not want your mates and colleagues to think you are a bell end. They will be talking about you, for all the wrong reasons! |
Not a trainer, so two questions:
1. Is the airport open? 2. Do they have gas? |
Don’t confuse good CRM with a p!ssing contest. One of the most irritating F/Os I flew with was so keen to impress me with how far ahead of the aeroplane he was, he would flip over the takeoff card and enter all the landing data before we passed 10000 feet in the climb on a three hour sector. He would be into that FMS to enter a visual circuit before he even knew what approach I intended. During taxy in he would set up the cockpit for the next crew or even the next morning after an overnight. Too bad if the schedule changed! The old sailing ship masters had it easy. No one else could navigate, so the crew had to toe the line. There was little insubordination or challenging of decisions if the reward was the cat o’ nine tails. Very little mutiny, considering how harsh it was then. Probably because this usually resulted in being keel hauled or strung up from the yardarm. If only CRM could somehow embrace this ethos.... |
Know your SOP's |
Oh, and show up minimum 20 mins before report having pre-read the stuff for the day. If the allotted time for checking the flight plans, briefing etc. is insufficient then we take our time, leave late and that's the company's problem. I don't expect the FOs to be there until they're rostered to be there. |
Why would you be stressed about being late if you’re on time? |
Well that’s a very specific case of poor crew transport/parking whereby you need to plan on a 20 minute delay. Different to regularly and intentionally turning up 20 minutes early which is completely unnecessary and may quite often impinge on minimum rest. It ain’t clever or particularly professional. I do understand your need to label turning up on time as militant but it quite simply isn’t. I bet you’re one of those people who also turns up early for a delayed report... |
I think that all the captain or the instructor is looking for, is a guy that, in spite of having concluded a purchase transaction with an ATO, a transaction not dissimilar from buying a burger from McDonalds, who is still able to get excited about the toy included in the happy meal and does not think it is his inalienable right to receive one |
Turning up habitually early is a no no. When I walk into a crew room and find my FO at the briefing table with all 4 OFPS printed out and sections of the NOTAMS/WX all highlighted for me at report time I now know that the FO is not compliant with the FTL scheme in a company where pilot fatigue is a major issue. Unfortunately said FO’s think this is how to get along in said airline due to the culture. No. Try to think for yourself. If there isn’t enough time provided we take the time required and to hell with the schedule. Turning up early covers over the problems. |
Originally Posted by TangoAlphad
(Post 10215646)
In this career and my previous career I personally considered it professional to be sharp and be prepared.
No I wouldn't compromise appropriate rest for the sake of being prompt, the two aren't mutually exclusive. |
Slowly getting the impression that Chesty Morgan is the argumentative type who’s always right... must be a delight to fly with 🙄 |
I’ve never worked out how writing something on a forum equates to how well you do a job. Nor or do I understand how asking a question equates to always being right. |
Lot's of inflated opinion here.
Get used to it, my dear young FO! This is how it will be for the coming 4000 hours: Captain A wants X, captain B says he's all about Y but does Z, captain C let's you do your thing, captain D will give you a bullocking for doing X and so on. In the mean time you learn every day. |
To the OP.. You have pushed the button on every ego maniac on prune. Brilliant..just brilliant! like a ninja, one post and he’s gone keep at it fella. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 20:10. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.