Airline Pay Awards 2017/18
Would anyone like to comment on their own airline pay awards agreed over the last year? There appears to be a definite tightening of the jobs market for pilots and it would be interesting to see if this is being reflected in pay awards. At present we see in the media reports of noticeable pay increases by an increasing number of significant airlines. It might be helpful to collate some of this information into one place and understand some of the details.
I understand, for example that: Aer Lingus agreed 11% Easyjet 6% Ryanair 20% Thomas cook 8%? |
Meanwhile in the antipodes,
Connections in Australia tell me
Naturally the union is wringing its hands, after all conditions have been 'advancing to the rear' for 30 years and organised labour representatives believe this shortage is just cyclical! :mad: The magic eight ball tips a contract advance of MINUS 3% with offsets off course! |
Jet2 = 3% + £3000
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BA treading water (RPI pay rise). 1.4% of basic salary bonus. And apparently massively under crewed. Not sure these figures are going to help too much. Yr 5 A320 capt now £86k.
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Percentages are meaningless without being put into context and also if starting off from a low base. Half of nothing is still nothing.
Aer Lingus took 10% off the gross of all pilots under a reorganisaton called Greenfield around 8 years ago now. With inflation that pay cut has never been restored nor will it ever be. The 11% you quote is over a 3 year period and is only just above inflation in a country which taxes over 50% once you earn a little over 30K a year. |
Her Indoors, works in school (not teacher)
2018 0% 2017 0% 2016 0% And so on Sometimes Pilots need a reality check |
You think?
So we should align our recompense with who? A secretary, dinner lady, cleaner? Maybe you could give more details for your point of view because I’m struggling to see it. |
It’s pointless comparing either total pay or increases in pay across different professions. Pay is awarded with regard to retention, shortages of skills, bench marking as well as inflation. Therefore low pressure on salary increases in one sector would not translate to another at any one time. As it happens pilot shortages are driving salaries up at the moment. That will continue until the airlines feel there is no longer a problem. If Corbyn and his bunch of retards get in you will see a burgeoning and unsustainable public sector growth in size and pay. In addition many public sector jobs have annual increments in pay which is rarely mentioned in comparison tables.
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Originally Posted by GKOC41
(Post 10066904)
Her Indoors, works in school (not teacher)
2018 0% 2017 0% 2016 0% And so on Sometimes Pilots need a reality check Perhaps any anger should be directed towards them, rather than Pilots, who are attempting to do something about it? I think we are in the same side. |
I hear all all your comments and understand where many of them come from.
But this thread is intended to highlight what pilot pay awards have been given or agreed in 2017/18 rather than any commentary on it. For clarity I’d be most grateful if you could set up another thread for that. I appreciate this might be difficult but would be grateful if you could. Many thanks! |
BA 4.1% I believe
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I understand VS have a pay deal for the next 2 or 3 years. Don't know the % if someone would like to add?
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Any rise for the Norwegian chaps?
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Originally Posted by Tricia Takanawa
(Post 10066852)
BA treading water (RPI pay rise). 1.4% of basic salary bonus. And apparently massively under crewed. Not sure these figures are going to help too much. Yr 5 A320 capt now £86k.
A senior SFO friend in BA said that they were extremely close to having to recruit DEC 2 years ago as practically all senior enough FO's didn't want SH command and were just switching to LH FO/SFO instead. The seniority number ran very low and it was only the fact they had recruited recently some experienced FO's from EZ/RYR/MON etc that they had enough very junior (in time) to BA to fill the positions. I believe one guy was even in BA less than a year before he made the juno to LH seat, admittingly he joined with over 4000Hrs but still a unbelievably short time to command in BA. Back then I enquired about the pay levels to see if it could tempt me away from the Orange juggernaught to switch to a LGW/LHR SH CPT position if recruitment did come about. On the pay scales back then (only 2 years ago) it would have taken me 18 YEARS to draw level to the annual BASIC that I was on (EJ Capt plus 10% annual bonus) due to having to start at Y1 captain scale in BA.. 18 YEARS! And thats without our last inflation busting circa 6% pay rise. If Nigel does in fact have a critical shortage over Y18/19, especially in the LH seat then they are screwed to attract sufficient, if any at all, experienced and type rated captains to fill their SH fleet. Interesting times ahead over the next 2-3 years I feel. :sad: Not that I'd now switch - but still would ask questions IF the package were better :roll eyes: Ps - EJ Y1 (to year I cant physically flying amore) basic now 105K without any loyalty bonus of upto 15% p/yr dependant upon length of service. |
Originally Posted by TangoAlphad
(Post 10066962)
I think the point is there are many professions that have seen no pay rise in years so the fact ours generally does increase above inflation isn't so bad. Not comparing jobs with salaries but there are many out there who work as hard or harder for less pay and no rises for several consecutive years now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't be paid.. yes I earn more than I think any of my non flying friends but I am away from home a lot. I miss birthdays and holidays and family/friend get togethers often. I need to live close to my base etc and these things deserve a financial compensation but I think we forget that we aren't the only professionals out there and we aren't hard done by. between return on capital for investors and reward/work for employees needs to be established. In modern civilization, where the wealth of the few is growing much faster than the average resources of the population in general, a capital investment shouldnt necessarily be guaranteed continuous used exponential growth. If any of these concepts seem foreign to you, then please join your local union and let those who do grasp them speak for you. And for your own benefit, don't join a certain low cost carrier who feeds off of employees as yourself.
Originally Posted by TangoAlphad
(Post 10066962)
I think the point is there are many professions that have seen no pay rise in years so the fact ours generally does increase above inflation isn't so bad. Not comparing jobs with salaries but there are many out there who work as hard or harder for less pay and no rises for several consecutive years now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't be paid.. yes I earn more than I think any of my non flying friends but I am away from home a lot. I miss birthdays and holidays and family/friend get togethers often. I need to live close to my base etc and these things deserve a financial compensation but I think we forget that we aren't the only professionals out there and we aren't hard done by. If any of these concepts seem foreign to you, then please join your local union and let those who do grasp them speak for you. And for your own benefit, don't join a certain low cost carrier who feeds off of employees as yourself. |
From the top of my head I believe VS is a 4% rise which makes a year 1 FO around £72k (fixed flight pay of 16k per year ) probably add $12k for beer tokens on top of that .
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Flybe had a 3 years increased plan.
Basic from 64K£ then 67K£ (currently) to 70K£ (1st April 2018) More less an increase of 10% over 3 years. Pilot have also now a limit of 750hr a year, an extra night stop payment and an extra over time payment (more than 75hr a month) |
Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7
(Post 10066456)
I understand, for example that:
Aer Lingus agreed 11% Easyjet 6% Ryanair 20% Thomas cook 8%? As far as I know the RYR is 20% over 5 years (2017 5%, 2018 5%, 2019 5% ....) otherwise its a confusing information. |
Originally Posted by Flocks
(Post 10067812)
Flybe had a 3 years increased plan.
... ... Pilot have also now a limit of 750hr a year, an extra night stop payment and an extra over time payment (more than 75hr a month) |
And what of our colleagues in the US or mainland Europe? Anyone know?
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Originally Posted by THRILLSEEKER
(Post 10067531)
A senior SFO friend in BA said...
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Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7
(Post 10068417)
And what of our colleagues in the US or mainland Europe? Anyone know?
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The expectation of pay 'award' bemuses me, not only in the term itself (an award for what?), but the expectation that an employer is somehow duty-bound to pay more for nothing in return. No they are not.
Doubters of this hard-nosed view might like to heed the demise of 3,000 jobs at Toys R Us and 2,500 jobs at Maplin due to work practices and technological innovation at Amazon and othr Gig economy operators, as a marker to future pilot job security - irrespective of the swingometer suggesting an uptick in demand. As airlines stand to make huge savings from artificial intelligence and autonomous aircraft, pilots should make themselves as cheap as possible if they are to justify their existence in 10 to 15 years from now, look ahead a bit and drop altogether ideas their 'value' to employers. Regretfully, the job is already beyond its sell-by-date and justification making any pay 'award' is unwarranted; a pay decrease, maybe. |
If aircraft are to be autonomous in 10-15 years time it doesn't matter how 'cheap' they are, they'll still be obsolete.
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No idea from which level the pay comes though, but a hefty rise percentage wise at least:
Spirit pilots ratify long-term contract, ending 3-year labor struggle | Labor content from ATWOnline |
So, pilotless, you'll save us all by putting yourself forward for the CC at your respective airline with that tag line. I wonder how many will tell you you're insane?
If we are redundant in 10-15 years (bull****) might as well milk 'em while we can! Serious note, I understand SAS Ireland based at LHR (contractors) are getting a pay increase quite soon. Again, don't know specifics. |
Originally Posted by ReallyAnnoyed
(Post 10069477)
No idea from which level the pay comes though, but a hefty rise percentage wise at least:
Spirit pilots ratify long-term contract, ending 3-year labor struggle | Labor content from ATWOnline |
Originally Posted by Pilotless
(Post 10069178)
The expectation of pay 'award' bemuses me, not only in the term itself (an award for what?), but the expectation that an employer is somehow duty-bound to pay more for nothing in return. No they are not.
Doubters of this hard-nosed view might like to heed the demise of 3,000 jobs at Toys R Us and 2,500 jobs at Maplin due to work practices and technological innovation at Amazon and othr Gig economy operators, as a marker to future pilot job security - irrespective of the swingometer suggesting an uptick in demand. As airlines stand to make huge savings from artificial intelligence and autonomous aircraft, pilots should make themselves as cheap as possible if they are to justify their existence in 10 to 15 years from now, look ahead a bit and drop altogether ideas their 'value' to employers. Regretfully, the job is already beyond its sell-by-date and justification making any pay 'award' is unwarranted; a pay decrease, maybe. 1. To allow for inflation, otherwise you are taking a cut every year. 2. To share in the good times, so not only the board of directors fill their pockets. and...... To make up for the times when the same b.o.d's have come to you and asked you to take a pay cut because times are hard. Get real! We aren't shelf stackers and checkout staff at Maplins ToysRus. Who probably wouldn't be losing their jobs if the overpaid BoD's had done their jobs properly. |
Spirit Airlines (US ULCC)
Finally signed new contract after 3 years. Rates went up 50%. We are still about 30% behind same equipment rates at the US Legacy carriers.
Average pre-tax/year 2nd year FO $110.000, 5 year PIC $210.000. Additional 11-15 % added by company to pension fund. |
Just to clear up any confusion, pilotless is either a former BA legacy cabin crew employee who was shown the door for being a prat, and hates pilots, or a current legacy cabin crew member who is a prat, and hates pilots.
Offer up a silent prayer for this individual - imagine being that bitter and twisted you spend time spewing bile on a forum for people you hate instead of getting on with your life. I hope they find peace. |
Interesting to keep this thread on top as there are quite a few T&C's to be renegotiated this year. It's possibly the best year for negotiations in over a decade.
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