Ryanair - Again - Pilot jobs site says 400+ working notice
 

Just looking at my old lot Ryanair as keep an eye on where's a bolt hole should the **** ever hit the fan.

The pilot jobs network site says they have over 400+ working notice currently and that its a record amount.

I lived a few summers in FR with the rumours of parked planes due lack of crews but they always seemed to get them round the network. What's the story on the inside? I see there off to Dubai to try to bring some boys home. Are they going to finally get stuck or amble through another year?

I'd consider going back as a trainer if the money was upped and got my UK base of choice on a proper Ryanair contract but I see there still paying as little as possible. Plus I like my 2 sector days a bit much at the moment

No one from the inside here to tell the story?

I remember seeing a number of their 737s parked in Faro summer time. Air Contractors, Air Explore wet-leases. Maybe flights cancelled well in advance? They probably never flew as much as they wanted. It was well managed.

You gotta pay to play

Hi zerotohero
Where are you currently flying. ..I also want 2 sector days

Would be gobsmacked if true. Still recruiting at both STN and DUB every week and at roadshows so something weird going on if it was true.

Now back to these 2 sector days...........

zero to hero, not meaning to nitpick on you or anything and sorry for my ignorance but:

what does "keep an eye on where's a bolt hole" and working notice mean?

TypeIV

To answer your question it means keeping an eye on where I would apply next should my base close or company go under etc

Working notice means how many have walked in and said here's my 3 months notice. I'll be flying different colours shortly

Thanks!

Where are people going? I guess it's Easy and the sandpit since Norwegian and Wizz now are even worse places than ryr to be in.

Yea I wonder that.
BA & Thomson are the popular choices from people leaving my lot but outside that I would not know

Easy if you have the hours I guess. Sandpit looks a shower of sh€> now. China is a struggle to get in and then very lonely I hear.

Dunno. Must be going somewhere

The wonder is with +200 more aircraft on the way how will they possibly fill them and current. There going to need a lot more LTC's and TRE's and you can't grow them that fast in the sausage factory.

The number makes sense. A LOT of experienced FOs off to BA. 75% of my BA entry course is ex Ryanair. Many also off to Thomson and fewer (mainly Brits stuck abroad) to Jet2.

Steady trickle to the sandpit, with Qatar now the destination of choice. Issues in both seats, the infrastructure in terms of sims is going in to ramp up, and they can just about cope with the aircraft they've got but not expansion. Monarch advertising for Bus/737 rated so I guess some will go there too.

For SFOs the command upgrade "experience" is still rotten in terms of basing and contracts. DECs getting permanent contracts and base of choice over their heads and the same being offered to leavers to try to get them to stay.

Are upgraded FOs bonded in Ryanair?

Heard that scandinavian has taken hoards of people from ryr aswell.

Bonded 2 years from completion of upgrade or pay up! Circa £4500

Jet2, almost no 4 sector days, hurrah.

400 pilots ...ridiculous...no way and its certainly not the reason that the deliveries from Boeing have slowed ..allegedly :E

Almost no flying either if the posts of its present pilot workforce on the Jet2 thread is anything to go by!

Listening to Normal Pilot, it seems your experience is very much base dependent.

STN is unsurprisingly losing people left right and centre to BA, Thomson and occasionally EZY and are very short of crew with many requests for people to work days off. Smaller UK bases are finding things fairly easy as there is such a queue of people to move to them that any leaver is easily replaced by somebody on the continent looking to move back home so the effect would be less likely to be felt locally.

The northern UK bases I believe were less hit by BA as commuting seems to be less appealing. There are a lot of DEFOs from turboprop and commuter backgrounds who have been hired in expectation of being able to upgrade 12-18 months down the line to plug the command gap left by experienced FOs leaving.

I think they will probably just about muddle through as they have done in the past but another busy year ahead for those remaining.

Heard it all before.

FR have never had issues crewing planes when short because too many people want the day off money and the hours.

Years ago and I mean years ago most STN pilots stopped working days off and hey presto Company come back with better roster and more money. Up the workers I say.......

My God I am starting to sound French........

@ Jwscud, just wonder do you know if those DEFO tp guys pay for the rating.
Cheers

Don't think they would have a problem if they would take non TR FO's and bond you for the TR.
Who wants to fork out 29000euros and then still have to pay for everything. only young PTF.

As far as i know no DE FO or CAPT pays any money upfront for the TR at this time.

Sorry to but in but I feel I have to add my 2p's worth.... I have never been rostered more than two sectors/day in 11 years at TOM. It's just not how we do it.

If they are losing crew then it's because the offering is crap. End of story.

Never flew for Thomsonfly? They've done 4 sector days before and if they need to, they'll do it again. You don't get a cushy roster at TOM because they love you.

Ahem, night flights anyone?

Do RYR still force pilots on unpaid leave over winter, or are they getting light on numbers? Do many volunteer to take unpaid leave over this time?

Would anyone be able to give basic pay and sector pay rate for DEFO on Ryanair UK contract? The figures I have seen quoted on Pprune seem too low to be possible. Think it was circa £28,000 basic for FO five years ago.

With a 73 rating expired by 4 years would they pay for rating or bond me? Would a OCC be a possibility rather than full rating?


Thanks

Thanks for the info, I had just heard that some guys were taking unpaid leave over the winter months, it appears that is not the case.

Normal Pilot gives a very rosy picture of FO conditions. Nothing new here, but remember that it is very different to be a contractor, commuting home somewhere else where your base is (7/2 roster), having months during winter when you earn less than 2k gross + month off with no pay etc.
So make sure you get the base you want and a direct contract with RYR and remember that most likely you have to change base when you do your command upgrade.

Normal pilot, do you really believe what you are writing?
First off all, what if they downsize or close your base? And you have to move across Europe with your family on short notice with no compensation?
The new FO ryanair contract offer around 20.000 Euro's per year basic salary, approximately 10.000 Euro's LESS than 4 years ago.
Ofcourse you have to pay for your typerating, around 28.500 Euro's. Unless they are now so desperate that they give it do DEP. Then wonder, why are they so desperate if they are such a good employer?
The month off is a JOKE as well. You say you get your preferred month off. Probably from the 5 options they gave to you. All winter months. It is close to impossible to get some time off somewhere between April and October.

But, it's very good for you that you are happy. I hope it will stay that way, because it can easily change tomorrow, bare that in mind!

I Think it will be not only Ryanair the company that will suffer a pilot shortage. In the coming years all the companies gonna have it

Thank you for the reply Normal Pilot. That sounds more like what I would have expected. I was hearing rumours of circa £24,000 basic.
Many thanks too for the advice on contract and basing FRogge. Would certainly only be interested if FR direct hire and the right base.
Seems a pain to have to do the full 73 rating as think it only expired by just over the three years and have been flying Boeing in the interim.

So how would one apply then, as non type rated DE FO, there is no option on the Ryanair careers website?
Thanks

Larryboy - from what I understand DE FO recruitment is on hold as priority is being given to DE CAPT however things are always fluid in FR.

In recent memory the only unpaid leave thats been dished is that requested by pilots. Theres a trend among some STN pilots to request JAN FEB MAR off.

Who could blame them......

Would be tempted myself but the missus wants a new kitchen!!

Let's just make this crystal clear. For anyone other than a ryr employee, so the vast majority of the workforce, ANY leave is unpaid.
The month off is allocated, occasionally it will coincide with a month that is convenient / requested. Often not. Ad hoc leave is hard to get, dependant on base and especially now as they're very short for the summer.
Lots of guys leaving, BA, TOM, J2, desert & China. A real mix of guys going too, from captains who have been in the company years and are in their base of choice on a decent contract to cadets who have got a few hours and have found something better.

I should also point out that in the most recent pay deals "negotiated" through the "ERC", FOs on Ryanair contracts have got zero pay rise of any sort whatsoever.

I spent 7 years in FR. The sum of all woes is primarily basing. Secondary to that is some of the unnecessary b.s. that the company feels compelled to put its people at the coalfront through. It's muscle flex, directly from the top, and its almost backfired on them more than a few times. Yet the company has deep pockets and does all in its power to cover up the holes. Just when you think there's a real shortage, along come a few wet leases, or they start taking in non rated folk, they scale back on frequency, downsize or close a few bases or even stop FOs from unfreezing their ATPLs until they commit to a CU and make it through to their command check.

They are operationally sound, good at what they do and to many are simply a safe bet. Frustratingly, a lot of things remain completely obscure bar the SOPs and the 5/4 roster, along with the fact that it becomes a 7/2 roster if you are forced to commute. Don't let anything or anyone fool you otherwise. Get your base first and foremost, if you don't it becomes a real ballache. I don't miss it however I know those who are happy. Needless to say, their state of happiness seems to be in a constant swing.

Normal Pilot, you seem to be meeting lots of DE pilots in the UK, these guys must have special treatment because I have been specifically told that for for DE guys, there was no space in the UK (or Ireland for that matter). What is going on?

I can confirm what Fancy Navigator has said.
No UK bases for the foreseeable as a DEC.
That was enough to terminate the interview day for me.
As bad as things are here, thats just jumping into another fire, along with the fact that you are paid €5K less per year for 5 years to pay back your type rating.
I just don't get these companies, they say they are desperately short of experience, but just not prepared to pay for it either.
Shame that doesn't apply to board members who seem to have their noses continually in the trough.

Yes absolutely gardenshed. They have a reputation for screwing down terms and conditions and are very reluctant to see any reversal of this trend. If they are short of experienced pilots they need to pay for them as very few will abandon a good salary in the Middle East for a crap one in Spain, Portugal or Eastern Europe.

Had exactly the same experience as Gardenshed, I explained my reasoning and restated that if they wanted experienced commanders for UK positions I would happily leave the sandpit.
I think it's why they have come down to the ME with a view to poaching a few flydxb and EK drivers who would accept an EU contract.

Mostly correct what is on here , I understand the need to get back to your home place , but I think you are being a bit too fatalistic about the whole thing . I would bet bet mybottom dollar that if 10 of you join , you will all be back in the UK within 18 months . A few probably within 6 . A short stint in the canaries or south of Spain wouldn't be too bad a penance to pay to get home . Do a summer in Ibiza or Palma and get base of choice when the winter season kicks in . This place is very fluid and stuff can and does happen .very quickly . To me it's an awful lot better than the ME . You just have to know the system . Anyone can pm me for further q,s answered , good luck . It's great to go to your own family every night albeit for less money .but it was wort my 747 command anyway . Never been happier , money paid on time ,do your job properly and go home , no one to hassle you about office based stuff . A little patience here might get you a long way .

As mentioned above, a lot really depends on "IF" you get the base that you want to make the trade-off seem worthwhile.

Are you really ready for:

- 25 minutes turn-arounds
- Re-fueling supervision during this period
- A very unique set of SOP's which mean everything from briefings to mode selections are highly prescribed, in short results in a lot of talking and very long checklists.
- Returning to a type which is a lot less automated.
- Fuel league tables
- Non CAP-371 rosters which allow for 6 early morning departures in a row with departure times before 0630 local.
- A very non-transparent system for base changes etc.

Probably sounds a lot like EK.

A lot of the things mentioned above may seem like minor gripes but after the honeymoon period wares off then the start wearing you down. Admittedly things have started to improve, but things are moving very slowly.

Having spent far too long helping the company reach record profits I can categorically state that ' steady improvement ' in the previous post just highlights how myopic the Ryanair pilots are. Salaries in real terms are almost 50% less than 15 years ago. Basing has only been tinkered with to try stem the exodus. A/L is a bigger joke now then it was before compulsory winter month off was introduced a decade ago. Despite the above if you need / want to get home then there are opportunities. It will suit some but in 2/3 years time if you get to your base of choice ask yourself is it possible to live, raise a family, save for retirement on a Ryanair salary?. It's a company designed for young single footloose employees who do not have an eye on the future. If you do join then 'get in get out'...after all it's what Ryanair want as well with average careers being circa 5 years.