Qatar 2015/2016
 

With all the negativity surrounding Qatar Airways over the years, I am hearing rumours of improvement. Better pay, working conditions etc. can anyone shed more light?
Also hear they are looking at commuting rosters and overseas basing in order to meeting flight crew requirements.

Anyone in the know feel free to share!

I have quite a few friends who work for this bunch and they're bloody miserable. An absolutely dire place by all accounts, despite all the gold and bright lights.

I've heard their stories..

I feel sorry for them. At least the Virgin chaps on sabatical had light at the end of the tunnel, and had a bit of fun dune bashing and so on. And they were rightly chuffed to move on as soon as they got the chance!

I can't think of a worse major airline to fly for. Emirates is having a mass exodus as pilots FINALLY realise that it's all smoke and mirrors. But the unmentionable airline about a 100k south seems ok, for now.

Nasty business if you ask me.

AVOID AT ALL COST....

NB...

I ended up, 10+ years ago, heading to the far east as opposed to the middle east option, and for many years I regretted it, as I saw my colleagues getting their commands in the sandpit after only 3-5 years. Now, however, I feel I've dodged a massive bullet...

And another NB...

The number of deaths in the construction build up to the world cup should be a SHAME on the country, and they should be stripped of the privilege and abolished for any and all sporting events in the future.

What an utter DISGRACE.

So you're on the fence?

Qatar 2015/2016
 

I've got a couple of mates there too. They have no complaints. They went with their eyes wide open and with the idea that it wasn't a career. Go there, keep their heads down make enough money to pay off the mortgage and come back to Europe.

They got their loved ones on side. The old adage happy wife happy life is particularly important. I'm sure it has its problems and many have probably fallen foul of a very authoritarian system. I have many friends in various middle eastern airlines. The ones that hate it there hate it because their families hate it. The ones that get on do so with the support of that family.

I'm personally impressed with all of the improvements in the last year and especially last six months
Like "Gorter" said, I also came here with my eyes wide open and wasn't really considering it long term.........but it is moving in the right direction and now I have to say if it stays this way I have to rethink my options.
I fly with Europeans, Australians, Asians, Americans , S.Americans etc.....I honestly hear very little bitching and most people are relatively happy ( 777 fleet)
I personally find a huge difference in quality of life depending on where you live in Doha. There are still a lot of cons but the pros are increasing and if you are lucky and don't fall into trouble, it can be a good job.

Very true, but unfortunately people like gorter only think about themselves and their bl**dy mortgage: Yes, by "keeping your head down" and strictly following orders (Befehl ist Befehl, like in Germany during 1933-1945) you'll be a great 'captain!' :ugh: By the way, what do you mean with: "...and come back to Europe?" Which airline, unless you're on furlough like the Virgin people, is going to hire you in Europe? Spoiler alert: nobody!

p.s. I stumbled across this story recently: TELL THE BARCELONA FOOTBALL CLUB TO DROP QATAR AIRWAYS AS A SPONSOR UNTIL IT TREATS WORKERS FAIRLY! | SumOfUs

It is quite clear that some people feel qualified to comment with little or no knowledge of what work or life is like in Qatar.

LLuCCiFeR; you take the statement of "keeping you head down" and then make reference to nazi Germany, I have never heard so much bull.

Keeping your head down out here means following the NOPs and not being known to the management, not unlike a lot of companies. The ME is famous for a lack of employment law so you can be easily fired for mistakes, but the fact is, if you can back up your decisions (which you should be able to do working for any company!) then you can carry out your job as captain as you would for any carrier.

I agree that human rights abuses are appalling; fortunately what has happened in Qatar has been well documented and I believe has led to improvements in working conditions out here, but as ever there is a lot more room for improvement hopefully brought about by more pressure from the world media and governments.

As for working out here; my family are very happy. Stable roster, flying under 80 hours a month with 13/14 days off a month. Still a bit short on housing allowance and it would be nice to be paid for all dead heading (probably only a matter of time) but there have been many improvements in Ts & Cs out here. Schooling can be an issue, Ramadan is painful compared to BAH, DBX or AUH, and not so much to do here compared to other places

It is not for everyone but may I suggest if you haven't lived or worked out here then you are not so qualified to comment.

Regards

Qatar 2015/2016
 

I don't live there and have never been there. I am merely relaying what my friends who do live there tell me. I wasn't making any comment about anything outside of working for Qatar Airlines as that has nothing to do with the OP's topic. If you wish to discuss that may I suggest Jet Blast as an appropriate forum.

Comparing working for Qatar airways as following orders for the Nazi's makes you sound a little bit (okay a lot) like a drama queen. And yes my family were directly affected by that regime as were many millions of others.

I never said that. I said that your mentality as a captain (keeping your head down, just do your job and follow orders), regardless where and for whom you work, is similar to that of many Germans during the Nazi era. Deliberately ignoring human rights abuses in the Middle East just for personal gain and your sacred mortgage. :yuk: :=

But I still wonder: unless you're doing it for a retirement gig (not really a long term career move), who will take you as a DEC in Europe once you've had enough of the Middle East, you get fired for not wearing your hat and/or the mortgage is paid off?

Qatar 2015/2016
 

Off the top of my head. Ryanair, EasyJet and Jet2 are all currently taking DEC's. That's without doing any research.

I think you are wrong LLuCCiFeR, I hope that between the world cup and QR joining the oneworld alliance and many other interactions the Qataris have with big business around the globe the world will maintain pressure to ensure workers out here receive better treatment as time goes on.

There is money out here whether we like it or not, the only thing that will help the workers out here is pressure from the world stage.

By the way LLuCCiFeR, who said "following orders"......

Regards

Hmmm, right, let's see... So you can swap jobs, because all those people in the LHS are leaving for the Middle East in droves as they've had enough of 4 sector days and 900 low cost short haul hours per year with 20 minute turn arounds?

When do you dumbos realize that it's one giant game of musical chairs of chasing quick money, chasing quick upgrades, and chasing quick shiny jet ratings? And it's not only that the chairs get fewer and fewer, they also get smaller and smaller in terms of T&C. :ugh:

My advice: buy a house which fits your wallet and not your ego.

Got to love the WWW, anyone with an internet connection and tablet can join in!

Maybe I should add one of those pictures of a head banging against a wall for effect.

Incremental improvements
 

320. Always thought the head bangy icon was quite symbolic. Think of "intelligence" being on the left side of the wall, the wall representing "EGO" and the head thing represents "self expression". Forum remarks are often inhibited by the inability to overcome one's EGO which otherwise could lead to an intelligent statement (which is often the case in life OUTSIDE the online world). :rolleyes: Just look at the flat spot on my bald head!

Addressing the original topic, after working at QA for several years, have found this to be a reasonable workplace especially after recent improvements including:

• Access to ID90 and ID50 on QA for non family members
• Increase in housing allowance
• Increase in base pay
• Benefit savings plan option
• Improved sequential days off
• Reduction in restrictions on roster building and bidding
• Deadhead pay for freighters (50%)
• Business class deadhead
• Improved medical benefits

There are some items that have devolved such as redefinition of Ultra Long Haul with subsequent reduction in layover time, airport layover hotels and a general reduction in the standard of hotel selected (YUL and LAX are prime examples though there are many more).

There are nice areas to live here that meet the needs of single, couple, or family. Company housing is still very limited which often means that one must subsidize accommodation, even after the increase. There is plenty of selection at different price points, especially after the exodus of energy workers.

Summers are HOT ("how hot are they????"). They are so hot, the heat waves are big enough to surf on; I saw two trees fighting over a dog; the refrigerator will not give up ice cubes without a struggle. It is HOT (and often humid). It is also thoroughly air conditioned; everywhere. Indoor activities such as basketball, tennis, badminton, squash, racquetball, and ice hockey (yes, ICE hockey) are available for a little coin and a few moments exposed to the heat between the automobile and the facility. The best option my be to have family return home for summer vacation and "tough it out" as a single.

Working for Qatar Airways may be more difficult that say, a legacy carrier but after chatting with crew members who have arrived here after following varied paths, it is an improvement on MOST carriers. The best possible situation is likely arriving as a DEC and having your family settle here with you. The F/Os I work with are diligent and hard working as their promotion hinges on a sterling work and exam record. It is not easy and engenders a certain amount of constant stress which can easily carry over into personal lives.

Working conditions for most of the general laborers is abysmal. There is a wide cultural gulf in this area which is being exposed to the world through the media. Though improvements have been promised there seems to be no incentive (or ability) to follow through. There are many opportunities to converse with a diverse range of people and many tell disturbing stories of their time here. There are also opportunities to assist and I like to think (or possibly delude) that our presence here makes a positive difference. There are signs that incremental improvements are being made and that world opinion my finally overcome the reticence of Qatar's rulers (and they ARE rulers, NOT leaders) for positive, humanitarian change.

Working here is what you make of it. Some like it, some hate it. This is a good skit for me though I am here for a finite period. Those considering long-term employment may have a different opinion though there are pilots (and others) who have been here for over a decade and are committed to this airline. Recently our management have moved to improve facets of our jobs and I am hopeful this trend will continue. Those seeking a secure position in a growing airline, there are many more worse opportunities out there and frankly, depending on your experience, few better that I know of. This is my personal opinion but remember that head bashing icon? My wall is just as thick as the next person's.

Excellent post Flytdeck; sums up my sentiments precisely.

The question was probably more about actual experience with QR rather than 2nd hand gossip me guesses... :hmm: Unless your friends can't write of course.....

Hmm, plenty of good arguments in that post. Were you talking about yourself perhaps? :ouch:

Anyway, good luck with your 'strategy' and good luck trying to get in as a DEC with a European low cost in 5-10 years time. By then they should be on a Z100 scale as a freelance contractor, as by that time hundreds if not thousands of pilots want to escape from the Middle East, all willing to fly for peanuts in a more moderate climate. All that money you've supposedly made by then in the Middle East will be instantly wiped out.

You might have a nice and paid off house by then, the question is: can you still afford to pay the utility bills and putting the kids through school working for a EU low cost? ;)

Ignorance is bliss dear Clog, ignorance is bliss... :ugh: (<-- here's that wall-banging smiley again for you 320goat!)

This is the next generation magenta line pilots. They've mutated even beyond the magenta line, this is the tunnel vision magenta line pilot generation.

Their ability to understand the big picture in aviation and their level of indebtedness has degraded to such an extend, that they can only resort to short term thinking and fooling themselves that these are sensible long term career moves.

Qatar 2015/2016
 

Did Akbar al Baker sleep with your wife or something?

In this world, we have positive people, and then sometimes we have negative people. ie glass half full, half empty.


Please, if you're a negative half glass empty person, don't apply as I don't want to spend my time at work listening to your crap.


I have been here just over 5 years and very happy with regards work, 320 fleet.


If you can think of a better place to live and work, post here and I will have a think. Until I see anything better, I'll take each day as it comes.


The fact of the matter is this, only people with an axe to grind tend to waste time here posting crap. Those that are happy are far to busy getting on with life.

LLuCCiFeR

If you chose to enter into debate I guess I would not get so frustrated,but what you write is on the verge of trolling. Apologies if you took offence at what I wrote (but it proves you are probably able to read the rest of my posts too!).

As ever Flytdeck, a well written post.

Regards

I'm happy with an EU LCC, and won't be going anywhere else until my youngest has left school, which will put me firmly in my mid 40s.

For some of us, the chance to see our kids grow up whilst earning decent enough money is most important. I could join BA now (A320 rated etc etc), but the prospect of spending much more time away just doesn't appeal to me any more. I'm no longer single and in my 20s,

@FGE319
 

Good on you, that's exactly my point! :ok:

You obviously joined at the right time, still got a decent contract working for a decent company, got upgraded, and are able to enjoy life close to family, friends and other loved ones, in a moderate climate and with a (fairly) transparent legal system.

However, IMHO it would be fair to acknowledge that also the low cost industry is not immune to the degradation of T&C's. Just compare LCC contracts from 10-15 years ago to those of today, and you can see a clear trend vector...downwards.

So again, why waste time in a region where it's >45C in the shade, where they treat people like slaves, where you as infidel always get the short end of the stick in legal matters and where you need to beg for an "exit visa" in order to leave the country? Especially if you only want to go there for the money in order to pay off a mortgage and then want to return to work in Europe? By the time you return home (5-10 years), European LCC will probably have degraded substantially further.

Why not join a decent European LCC a.s.a.p. as in the long term those LCC T&C's also continue to spiral south, get a staff ('seniority') number, get a decent contract, try to get upgraded a.s.a.p, get the base where you and your family feels at home, live within your means, and take it from there? If one day it all goes t!ts up, the kids have grown up, the wife is still around (*), and/or you get the urge to earn some extra cash as a DEC to pay for that summer house or convertible car just before retirement, then you can always try to go to the Middle East.

(*) what are the divorce rates in the Middle East? :sad:

Exactly.

One set of (grand)parents on the doorstep = no problems with childcare, not that there ever really is that problem anyway, as we've managed to get things so they're structured really well for us where we are.

Like I said, I'm not in it for the money, but to do a job I love in a way that fits with my personal circumstances, whilst earning about 4.5x the average UK wage can't be too bad.

Sticking strictly to the initial question... All we see here are nothing but improvements, EVERYTHING the chief pilot promised on those flight crew meetings were accomplished and some surprises came along as well, like the increase on the housing allowance.

The list of improvements over the past year:
- Salary increase
- Education Allowance increase
- Hosing allowance increase
- Overtime paying
- ID90 tickets for up to 15 friends (effective on August)
- New company accommodations at The Pearl available
- International retirement plan
- At least 4 consecutive days off on a month guaranteed
- 50% pay for cargo dead heading repositioning.
- Business Class guaranteed for cargo dead heading repositioning.
- Online management of leaves, allows realtime leave period swaps and changes.

That's all I remember from the past year, sure there is a lot to be improved but for such a short period of time I find the list quite extensive.

I'm not going to discuss if here is a good place to be or not, this is a personal decision and will vary immensely from people to people. Most important thing is to research a lot and talk to people living here.
Good luck!

Notwithstanding the encouraging advances outlined in the previous post by lfbb, I think it is widely recognised that Qatar is the runt end of the whole Middle Eastern airline experience. The root of that that is the management culture fostered by a particularly unpleasant individual at the very top. None of the Middle East airlines are exactly industrial relations wonders and delights, but Qatar are certainly in a league of their own. Nonetheless, needs must, and if you have no other option then I fully understand that you have to bite the bullet and just get on with it. Unfortunately, that may mean working at the rock bottom end of the industry, and it does not get much more rock bottom than Qatar. The only saving grace is they have some wonderful new aircraft in their inventory, and that could bring a few moments' pleasure to an otherwise awful experience. Fortunately for Qatar, pilots are like lemmings and despite the countless well-presented and erudite warnings on PPRuNe and the likes, there is a sucker born every minute who just thinks it cannot be that bad. It can, and it will be that bad, but most people are so dense they need to find out for themselves. Therefore just fill your boots and go off and do it - you owe it to yourselves.

I'm sure I don't need to say that to professional pilots, but since I almost fell for that, here we go.... If you are considering QR please take your time to talk to people who are currently flying for Qatar Airways, do not make such important decision based on what you read on Internet, go after real people and real pilots! They will tell you all the good, the bad and the ugly of the business here. Before accepting the position I've read tons of posts on internet and almost gave up coming, fortunately I've got enough friends already flying here that convinced me to be a sucker and give it a try, so no surprises for me. I'm a happy sucker with the things that I knew would be good and not so much with other things that I knew would suck. So don't believe on what you read from me or anyone else, do your own informed decision based on talkes with people flying for QR, unfortunately real professional pilots usually don't have much time to be posting on websites, so better to give them a call on Skype.

Are there any road shows planned for Europe? I have always had an appetite towards the ME carriers. Does the AUH one contact road shows?

Rock bottom is a bad thing?
 

The nice thing about a solid, rocky bottom is that one has something to anchor to. Ifbb is precisely right, every workplace has good and bad and every pilot will assess them differently.

There are pilots who come to Qatar and hate for many DIFFERENT reasons but in my experience those without there family here the unhappiest (including single pilots). We ALL have issues with something or another and we are ALL likely a bit homesick at times, but this airline has a solid financial footing, is growing, and offers many opportunities for those willing to give it a try.

As Ifbb said, talk or chat to some people who actually work here and ask the questions that are important to YOU. Sometimes a rocky bottom is a good thing especially if the water is shallow and you want to build something solid.

what can a newhire first officer can expect when joining QR in terms of training (initial/LPC/OPC), on line flying, roster, salary and command upgrade opportunity?

I heard that command upgrade is hard as they rely heavily on all your evaluations and seniority does not mean that much. Worst if you fail your command interview the first time you would never have chance anymore and be FO for the rest of your QR career. Can somebody please shed some light? thanks...

New hire first officer. I was a new hire and online within 4months. Pay increase before I arrived, no bond payments to be made (bonded for 3 years). Housing allowance increased. I was told the fleet I was going on and the fleet I was given didn't change. 4 days off per month in a row (commutable to Europe).

Honestly I cannot complain. Its a bit hot out here at the moment but I'm not in DOH very often.

Qatar 2015/2016
 

@prisoner,
Check your pm please, thanks

Always take a family summer holiday in the country you might be about to work in, as well as all your other research!
If you can achieve that in ramadam, all the better.

I did that recently.

Didn't want to get there and then complain about it being hot! No ****

qatar 2015/2016
 

guys any info regarding the testing screening ? for qatar ? the more recent the better please...A320 FO
thanks

I left QR in 2011 and it was the happiest day of my life. The airline is a terrible place to work and Doha is a dive.

I would want to waste another day of my life in that city.

Flytdeck + lfbb thanks for sharing that info :)
I just feel no one really knows how it is unless they experience Qatar themselves. Info from friends who live in Doha and works for Qatar doesnt count. Cause everyone have react/feel/think differently about everything.

Little Catamite Airways (End your career here)
 

Little Catamite airways.The worst job I ever had as a Pilot.I learned there that money cannot buy happiness.

Do yourself a favor ,if u wanna join a ME Airline,please choose
E_ _ _ _ D. :ok:The best considering the big 3.

When I left Doha to my home country before joining the Best Option airline,I cried :{remembering that I waste 365 days of my life working for Little Catamite Airways .:ugh::mad:

You cannot compare AUH or DXB with DOH.

Choose wisely! Don't forget the bond if you not have the type rating before joining.For example If they offer you the A330 and you are typed on A320.Ask for A320 no matter what.If not u will be ........:uhoh: for 3 yrs at least.

Choosing wisely
 

Emirates, Qatar, and the Airline that shall not be named. All have advantages and disadvantages. Collectively, it is the decision to live in this area that is the most important.

QA likely offers the best upgrade path at this time though living in Qatar does not offer the upbeat lifestyle of the UAE. It DOES offer a very secure family living environment and many educational options for children AND adults.

Over the last while I have noticed a change in attitude with the people I work with. Previously most considered QA a pitstop on their aviation career path. Now many appear to be thinking of this airline as a long term commitment, especially with the recent changes in time off.

This forum gives such a narrow perspective on such an important decision. As mentioned previously if you are interested in a ME carrier, then TALK to people who work here and investigate those aspects that are important to you and your family. My personal needs are more than met, but YOURS are so completely different and ultimately are the most important.

I worked at QR for 3 years and left back in 2012 so am in a good position to offer a balanced fair judgment. Although I would never describe my time there as a dream, it was a far cry from the nightmare described by other people on this forum.

I will start with the good points, Money is good (paid the deposit on my house), job security is the best, Command potential within a few years (hours dependant), any aircraft worth flying they have and you will get a chance to transfer, Interesting flying, good staff travel, New pension fund!!

Now the bad points, The country is not great to live in, the weather is extreme and there is really nothing to do. Good schools are hard to get into and everything except fuel is expensive. There are some lovely local guys working at QR but in general they are dismissive and unlikely to treat you with the respect one might expect. The company is OK but don't expect them to do you many favours - you are there to do as you are told, (I asked for some time off when my gran died and was told no!).The 320 roster is hard, 90 hours a month, lots of 4 sector days and night flights to India. Other fleets are much better, I went 340 for a year and it was a dream - 6 flights a month to only LHR or CDG! They can be very unforgiving regarding training issues or mistakes on the line and FDM is used to keep tabs on people. They have been know to fire people quite easily, but that being said fly like they want and don't be a dick and you will be fine.

Looking back on my time there I would generally say I was glad I went but am in no hurry to return. If you have a good Jet job already and are fairly happy I would say don't consider going, but if you are in a situation were you need a job or want a new rating or need to get jet time or have a career break to fill then go, its not that bad and you might even enjoy it.