...one weakness in BK's legal fiction that NAN (or whatever front end) is the legal employer, is that all important decisions seem to be taken by NAS. A court of law may accept that a subsidiary is a separate legal entity if it has some degree of independence, and makes it's own decisions. According to Norwegian law, an employer can decide that employees can no longer self-certify, and ask for a medical certificate from day one if employees are unfit to work...but where was that decision taken in BK's empire? And who communicated the decision? NAS, and NAS again. That might lead a judge to believe that NAS and NAN are one and the same, not really separate, independent entities, and that NAS is the actual employer...

I'm willing to take bets BK will give in at some point.

I hope so, but let's not forget that BK is one of the top lawyers in Norway and has had a long career turning the T&C in the shipping industry into a mess. He probably has an ace or two up his sleeve.

I am at a bit of a loss trying to understand, why some are still peddling the 'bankrupt NAN/NAS' plan, when BK has already publicly stated what his intended solution is: Transferring all current NAN staff to three new entities; Pilot Services Denmark, - Norway and - Sweden, effectively splitting an existing pilot group found to be unruly into 3 smaller and separate groups, making the managing of any one conflict at lot easier.

With reference to my previous rant on the egoistical nature of many pilots, and in agreement with a previous poster, there is no doubt the Norwegian pilot group are - to a certain extent - themselves responsible for having to have this fight. Much the same as with RYR, with the obvious difference that RYR pilots have allowed themselves to work under even worse conditions, making any hope of a collective action on their part virtually impossible. But the budding FO didn't care to part with a large wad of dosh, to pay himself into a seat and 500 hours in the book. Neither did the skipper mind setting himself up as a company, 'cause there was a way of being 'creative' with the taxes and social contributions.

In so many words, having been :mad: on from ever greater heights for a prolonged period, it's about time the pilot group in one of these, pardon the expression, contractual bottom feeders grew a set and stood up for themselves.

All credit to the Norwegian pilots for not joining in with this thead. But :rolleyes: Many did not create this mess and were scandi pilots flying elsewhere in Europe or Indonesia etc. so get off your high horse and and realise we all created this mess or just shut up and sit back down. If you are a pilot in this game for the past 20yrs you sat back and let this happen. If you paid for a rating you let this happen. We all did this. Let's sort this out once and for all and be a part of the greater good. If this fails we are screwed to an extent. Let all grow a pair and take this ride to let's hope better T's&cs.

Actually not all of us sat back and watched it happen, we were just ignored.

So, no, not all of us did this. But now you expect our help.

Just wanted to voice my support for the Norwegian Pilots. Stay strong, stay together:D

Lord Spandex Masher, I'd assume Scandinavian pilots with a right to vote (for a government) were among those voters who elected governments that create and uphold relatively decent labor laws. Let me cite Stefan Löfven, Swedish Prime Minister, a former trade union chairman, answering a question in parliament what he thinks of the strike: "I think it's despicable to use strikebreakers". Frankly, Scandiland pilots will be quite ok without the help of others, they're capable of helping themselves, and I don't think they're expecting the help of others, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Itsnotwhatyouknow expects it.

I wouldn't waste much breath here deptrai, just let the useful idiots play their blame game. Their attitude toward this strike is a fine example of why this industry is headed for certain doom.

For all Norwegian pilots: Very best for You all and stay strong with Your fight! This fight is going to affect all of us, despite of which airline we are working at. If You break under pressure, other airlines with their managements are going to follow this trend... This could also be "The moment" for all Norwegian pilots from different bases to unite!

Keep up the good work and disregard some strange posters with their very strange opinions concerning this fight!

What very many posters seem to fail to understand is that Norwgian from the start of the transition from a small domestic turboprop operation to an international B737 operator was one of the few places where you could buy a job by paying for your rating.

Most of the guys back then happily joined, buying their job, not really thinking more about it or reflectintg over how the goalposts and standards of an entire industry were moved as typeratings used to be a cost for the employer
at the time. Apparently not caring much either, only happy to join an innovative operator promising a new future for airline transport.

Then the owner/operator decided to move the goalposts again by stopping the hiring into the airline and creating a subcontractorbusiness in to the same flightdecks. Bitching ensued but not to the point where the various European cockpit assosiations and unions were ready and geared to support their colleagues because a deal that didn't affect the initial job-buyers was made.

Given comfortable time to adjust and tune the operation the owner/operator struck again. This time by moving the goalposts by trying to get everyone get under less favourable contracting.
Why not, as any- and everything dished out before was accepted.

Happy to accept any corrections to factual faults in the above.

Now being strange or on high horses might be a matter of perspective I guess.

Strange:

Do I believe that Norwegian core pilots are fighting a battle for the sake of all of us?
Not really, they are mostly getting what they paid for.

Do I support their case?
Definitely. I have no choice and their business is affecting my business.

Funny because I still (sentimental reasons) hold a copy of the polite letter to decline the kind offer to join the Norwegian succes story from more than ten years ago sent when asked to pay for a rating to join a "small but growing company that will take the lead of European skies"

Norwegian (core) pilots not sticking it to the community by buying a rating are easily counted.
Likewise the contributors to this forum who seem to think buying a job makes you a professional instead of a customer.
Most of the followers likewise.

High horses:

Consumer advice/disclaimer
All of the above is written on employer provided hardware on paid time off excluding any of the annual eight weeks vacation, user(s) discretion mandatory.

UK AOC
 

The Sunday Times is reporting that Norwegian have applied for a UK AOC

It would be good to see G plates on Norwegian aircraft

Norwegian Pilots Not Happy
 

Why would it be good?

Looks like there will be some vacant office space in Imbus House, Dublin.

One point missed in this marathon of union busting by Kjos, is that all those who oppose NAI in the USA have been watching events very closely indeed.

The AFL CIO and its affiliate unions, with 12.7 million members, is an opposing party to the NAI, Foreign Air Carrier Permit application, as are the 60,000 members of ALPA.

A UK AOC would change nothing. The Norwegian Airline Group has its principal place of business in non EU Member State, Norway. EFTA and EEA Agreements do not include the EU US Open Skies Agreement.

Too many "yes men" surround Kjos and compete to blow wind up his ass. Kjos will always have labour problems because he has no empathy whatsoever for workers standards, rights and principles.

Direct bondi
 

One of the reasons that Norwegian's opponents in the USA have used is that in their view Irish oversight is weak and that the opportunity for the IAA to inspect Norwegian's operation is limited given that they do not fly to Ireland with EI plate aircraft, not an unreasonable point, SAFA's remit is somewhat different.

I think that with G plates on an UK AOC it would be much more difficult to deny them (Norwegian) open skies rights from the UK and elsewhere in Europe. The UK CAA for all its faults is respected world wide.

In a global economy it is increasingly difficult to define the principal place of business.

So yes i think it would be good to see DY flights with G plates

Most flights to Finland have been cancelled today, because of a sympathy strike by Finnish ground handlers. Cheers.

http://www.finlandtimes.fi/travel/20...nds-to-Finland

Norwegian Pilots Not Happy
 

Ah right. So you're hoping DY get an air of respectability by trying it on with a different "regulatory" agency (I use the term loosely when it comes to the CAA) and therefore shoehorning the shoddy employment practices through a different avenue via a country with only marginally tighter employment regulations than Ireland. Gotcha!

Tell me again why they don't just want to leave it all on the Norwegian register? Diversity?

I strongly disagree with that , and it appears to be the same "bending of rules" that has got Norwegians (mis)management in this bad situation anyway ...

I only see one good point in G registry, and that would be associated with what/who we would get rid of, rather than what we may gain. . . . . all in my humble opinion of course. :rolleyes:

As someone pointed out, sympathy strikes are forbidden in the UK, so that might be a reason for BK to switch to the UK.