Highest paying airlines for pilots?...
 

As above.
Distinguish between long & short haul

Highest net pay or highest gross? Big difference between the two. Just checked my last fortnights payslip and a fraction under 50% is going to the Irish Revenue/German bond holders.

For sake of international comparisons we could go Gross

My guess qantas since the Australian dollar is pretty strong.

The Australian dollar might be strong but Qantas sadly isn't. :(

And there's the deal. The airline you aspire to may not even exist by the time you're in a position to apply...

TODA

You're question seemed so straight forward... gotta love PPRuNe!

...

:} Trouble is the answer isn't..............................

Gross? Net? Just Basic or do you include allowances/per diems? Training pay? Flying pay? Flying hourly rate?, etc etc.

It's just one question, but there are so many answers.....:ooh:

That would be meaningless as you could have people earning vast salaries who pay 99% tax living on less take home money than a flying instructor earning so little they don't pay tax. The only meaningful comparison in my view is NET, i.e. how much do you have to spend at the end of the month.

There's a job where you can get a salary for not flying for a whole month?! Sign me up!

Nelson15
 

Yeah EXS :}

For goodness sake. Ten posts of nonsense in response to the original question. Just post gross & net if there's any confusion. He/she asked what your pay was, not what your pension, per diem, flight pay, duty pay, day off payments were etc. I won't post mine because it is nowhere near the highest paid but probably sits within the lowest paid.

Highest paying airlines for pilots?...
 

E 28500 pa gross + sector pay and allowances. Average monthly take home after shed loads of deductions E 2800.

Now that wasn't difficult, was it?!

If you don't mind living in China then a nice full-time 787 gig with Hainan out of Beijing will be worth $348,000 (USD) per year. Of course out of that you've got to find accommodation and other expenses normally included in a contract job.

The fact that they have to offer that amount speaks volumes about the prospect of living and working in the people's republic.

:eek:

Even net income is a pretty meaningless figure without a comparison of cost of living and other taxes deduced elsewhere. For example a 19% sales tax reduces your net income by that amount, energy taxes can reduce that even further. Are social security and pension funds taken out of your net income or your gross, does it reduce your taxable income? Are there tax free portions of your pay?

Trying to compare stuff like that is a huge undertaking, there are companies specialized in that field, however buying their reports is quite costly.

Then to borrow an economics trick as an easy way to get around exchange rates and local costs of living ...

"How many standard Big Mac's can you buy in the country/city within which you're based/live in one year with your take home pay?" No price discounting of the "sandwich" allowed.

Find the price of the burger in a local franchise and divide it into your net (no swapping for Whoppers or other local alternatives ... comparison has to be like for like).

For transparency, it might be helpful to post your net too (in your local currency).

Just a thought.

China is leading the ExPat world by far if you account for net pay ie after taxes. The Hainan gig though advertising $348K is not truly in your pocket. They are advertising this as Gross pay and then claiming they are paying 120K per year on your behalf in taxes. The Chinese employers cheat on taxes to the Chinese tax collection agency more than anywhere in the world and much of it is sponsored by corrupt internal officials. The narrowbody Captain pay rates at some carriers now are approaching 25K/month and this is probably the best overall pay in the world net of taxes. There are Fed Ex Captains who clear 400K gross but after taxes and deductions are netting about half that amount. Japanese Captains at one time had extraordinary high salaries and bonuses but pay 50% back in taxes. If you choose to come to China it is a long, long, long process and many pitfalls along the way with the medical being one of the largest obstacles. It is a great place to stay 1-2 contracts to pay off your house, save for the kids college and build a nest egg but do NOT treat it as a career option, simply a high paying short term gig then move on to greener pastures with more stability and security albeit much lower pay.

You can typically make over $200K USD flying a regional jet in China with some earning close to $300K with OT. You can make only a little more by flying larger equipment.

Heck even part time flying in China (six months off per year) you can make about $180,000.

The tax benefits of working in China mean that you would have to make a lot more than the above numbers to earn the same amount in another country.

Of course working in China will take years off your life expectancy so you have to consider if it's worth it. If you can get a heavy job for a Chinese carrier based in a western country that would be awesome...there are a few such jobs.

Clamchowder- where did you hear that?

My salary all gets transferred to my home bank account every month. Cost of living for me in China is less than half the cost in Europe.

There is no doubt that currently if you can maintain your Chinese medical then financially you can do very very well.

Chowder your statement is falsely misleading. Of course you would need to spend money on living expenses but this is the case anywhere and those living expenses are far cheaper in China than most anywhere in the world. At my airline 90% of our salary is paid in US$ but some pilots who commute are paid 9000 rmb about $1500 per month in actual rmb for living expenses. From this amount they pay for everything ie rent, food, utilities, phone, internet and still save for their beer fund. If you compare living expenses with Dubai or Europe you are 3 to 4 thousand dollars per month ahead in China and all of your remaining pay can easily be wired out anytime barring a Chinese holiday and the banks close. If you look at actual net pay China leads the world in ExPat contracts but the work here is harder and the medicals are difficult and no security here.

You don't need to work in China (proper) for good flying salaries. I couldn't think of anything worse! Yuck.

But you need to get pretty close!

I work for a rather large airline in a former British colony :( and just put in my tax return that shows taxable earnings of 260,000 US dollars (154,000 GBP)!

Oh, and I'm an F/O doing about 8 sectors a month, with around 18 days off per month! :O

I can't think of anywhere else that pays that sort of coin. Still, I hate my employer!

Horses for courses...

EK 380 Captain; basic 12,000US/month, but then add on the Provident Fund, housing, education, utilities and it's pretty comfortable... (The villa costs EK over 5,000US/month)

Without Question Qantas Long Haul

Have a read of their latest EBA it is an extraordinary document of over 300 pages of entitlement , entitlement , entitlement. Breathtaking

On the Airbus 380

Average Captain - $420,000 - Australian Dollars
Average First Officer - $300,000 - Australian Dollars
Average Second Officer - $200,000 - Australian Dollars


Six weeks holiday from your first years , staff travel which extends to many many family members, free first class trip once every five years, long service leave 3 months after ten years , 25 plus sick days per year (no certificate required) , staff travel after retirement, etc etc etc

To get B747 multiply the above figures by 0.9 , to get A330 figures multiply the above figures by 0.83, to get USD multiply by 0.9

Yes at Qantas we pay our second officers more than a BA narrow body capt, and they are true gentleman you know so that is why we only allow our A380 princes to fly on average 550 hours per year.

Flyboat is a :mad:stirrer with a chip on his shoulder. What he states above is misleading.

Yeah, I figured as much judging by some of the language he was using :}

I, on the other hand, haven't sturred a turd in ages...

We should all earn what we deserve, which is a hell of a lot higher than the industry average to be sure.

I can't complain about my lot, but the race is well and truly on to the bottom, and it's only a matter of time before my employer sees sense and chops my package to pieces.

The onus is on us higher earners working for the 'legacy' lot to fight for our less fortunate brothers, and sisters, so that employers have to raise the bar.

:suspect:

The days of the above quoted figures for Qantas are long gone. Now Qantas is experiencing cutbacks, furloughs and many Aussies are now in the sandpit. The tax rates and living expenses in Australia are also some of the highest in the world. There is no chance of progression for the long foreseeable future. LCC mindset has invaded Down under and that ship has long since sailed.

Clog: I agree Cathay is a great place but now they only recruit SOs and at a greatly reduced package in comparison to the A scalers. For those looking for a job the options are better in the mainland than HK currently.

You are asking the wrong question. You need to understand that there are those with old contracts ( and superior salary packages) and those without.
The package of the former is however somewhat useless information since these contracts are not available anymore.
( An A scaler in Cathay with high seniority makes probably something in the region of 400 k US$ net incl housing. Similar situation at Air France or BA).

Many companies offer only reduced packages for new joiners, so that should be your primary are of interest ( unless you are just gathering statistical value for fun).

Without selling one´s soul in some questionable countries and considering a pilot´s life cycle, UPS gotta be one of the best deals State side. A second year F/O is already on more than USD 10K/month.

United Parcel Service | AirlinePilotCentral.com

True enough, Wondering. That said, for this thread to have any real lifestyle relevance, one must consider how long it takes to get on those pay-scales, from the start of your career.

Eg, most competitive UPS new-hires will have a couple of years as an instructor, followed by 6+ years as a regional FO and a couple of years as a regional captain.

So, 10 years of walking what is probably a poorly paid roadmap to get there.

Compared to, say, CX, where a cadet with 0 experience will be on about $13K a month within 4 years.

Then again, 12+ years to command whilst living in an expensive city do take some of the shine off those figures.

Will a CX cadet be really on more than 13K/month after 4y as a new F/O? Without the housing allowance?

In the end it´s all about quality of life e.g. not living in one of the most expensive, overcrowded and polluted places on earth. Priceless :)

Agreed, though there's a reason it's so crowded. I have right to live in the US, HK, UK and AUS. I'm not going anywhere. Horses for courses. I'm on a different package, though.

Yes, a CX cadet will be on 13k at FO level one, without housing; which assumes 3 years as an SO and one as a JFO. This is the current schedule.

Well here it is posted from the horses mouth:

"For those of you who think our salaries are over the top. A reality check.
(this bloke is actually crying poor ?? - but the QF SO gets paid more than the BA narrow Capt who has worked for BA for 15 years - why is it so ??)

QF BASE PAY

12 years of service with QF.

A380 CAPTAIN $310,236 FIRST OFFICER $204,790 SECOND OFFICER $159,380

B747 CAPTAIN $295,560 FIRST OFFICER $195,030 SECOND OFFICER $141,788

A330 CAPTAIN $281,486 FIRST OFFICER $185,736 SECOND OFFICER $144,539

B767 CAPTAIN $252,500 FIRST OFFICER $166,637 SECOND OFFICER $129,782"

I left the for those who think our salaries are over the top remark in , to show you how truly fruity our QF boys are.

So the data I posted earlier was pretty much spot on.

Notice these are base salaries so add between 25 & 50 %

Taking the A380 Capt to around $420K the A380 FO $300plus K, and the SO chappie (the take them on four hour sectors you know) he comes in at around $200K (many joined direct as SOs from Pilot School)

The tax rates in Aust have come down a lot over past decades , unlike the increases in EU , so our Capt will clear approx $250K AUD ,without any tax minimization strategy

Add to this:

• Six weeks annual leave
• 25 plus sick days
• pattern protection
• one of most generous staff travel schemes around
• 300 or is it 400 page contract - which is pretty much "Sydney Glamour Boy goes to Hollywood" type deal

Well they thoroughly deserve it , they are the best of the best , they work for the worlds iconic Airline, and as such are themselves icons.


They are such icons that they have taken to marching in the Anzac Day Parade - because "we flew the troops in Saigon"

Good grief!!

$250,000 AUD is £137,500 - after 25 years in BA I was clearing £90,000 on the 747 and nothing like that in the years leading up to it...

Fly boat has his head in la la land, I worked there on the 767 for 10 years until a few years ago and my pay was never within $20k of his 76 base pay for a captain, and definitely not a cent of the 25-50% more comment. The base pay was calculated on 80 hours a month and the way they rostered you would struggle to do more and stay married. Juniors got 4 day trips over every weekend with no change in 10 years, no days off by request unless you took leave, and you never got the annual leave that you requested after 18 years there. Worked 16 out of 18 Christmas's as well, explain that to your wife & kids. Tax in Australia is 50% by the time we get stiffed for medical and the new save the country tax plus 10% gst on everything we buy. Some people are just full of ---- and try to stir. There is always 2 sides to every story.

Tax rates 50% , well they do reach 45% , but that is over 180K

Rates are 0 to 20 K - No tax
20 to 40 K - 20%
40 to 80 K - 33%
80 to 180K - 37%
180 & over - 45%


So lower than virtually all of EU , Not Singapore or HK but not far off the USA. Likely lower than some US states

The wages for the A380 bit low more like $440K for Capt, 747 $400K , 330 pushing towards $400K

767 bit of an anomaly as it has only flown domestic last few years , but on the long haul contract , which is geared towards long haul with overtime kicking in on longer legs.

Poor chappies that they are base rate is correct, most Capt getting between $25OK and $290K for Aussie domestic.

All the data I have posted is correct , these guys really have a problem with people posting it will abuse , attempt to humiliate, attempt to intimidate, etc etc,

They don't want the data posted , not hard to figure out why.

Do you know how much they get for an overnight allowance in Japan (one night) - well they get $320 Aussie.

Would be interesting to post the allowances for other ports and an actual link to their EBA, it is an extraordinary document.

Agree wouldn't be my business if it was a private company , but the trade shares so shareholders have a right to know,why their shares have been divided by five

QF also went fleabagging to the Aussie Govt earlier this year want a few billion dollars of tax payers money in the form of Govt Debt Guarantee. Joyce tried talking up a fear campaign about the evils of "Johnny Foreigner", and state owned airlines in the Middle East.

It was pathetic.

No doubt we will see another parasitic raid on the Aussie Tax payer by QF to prop up their failing business, always the same disjointed ramble about being "iconic" , and being "icons"

What do you guys get for an overnight in Japan ?

The worst offenders on Long Haul are the 330/380 crews. A reasonable number of 330s went to Jetstar , so big QF were over-crewed for about four years. The guys weren't even hitting 500 hours , still on the big $$$, same for 380 guys over last few years few getting above 550 hours.

Interesting Comparison from other Poster

25 years BA 747 clearing $165K Aussie

25 years QF 747 clearing $240K Aussie

or QF Second Officer A380 clearing 72,000 British Pounds

But mate you don't work for an "iconic" airline so that is why there is a difference

More than happy to parasite on the Aussie Tax Payer to keep the racket going.

Flyboat North- you really have a problem with guys achieving reasonable contracts for themselves and their families.

They are at least dragging industry pay up rather than down like so many fools do. It just shows what a strong bargaining hand unionized Pilots have.

Could you maybe revert to trying to humiliate overpaid bankers and Ceo's of failing companies, I think you will find that they are the true leaches, whose bonus's are multiples higher than the money we are talking here.

No I don't have a problem with people being paid what they are worth.

I do have a problem with my Qantas shares going down, when I can see the cause

I also have a problem with a company trying to con our Govt into giving them billions of dollars so their workers can continue to live like royalty, when I know their workers are overpaid 50%

I would prefer the money to be spent looking after the disabled, and improving our Universities, not providing a subsidy so QF second officers can continue to earn $200K (that is clearing 72,000 Pounds After Tax)

Hot desert, narrowbody capt (year 1):

9500 usd basic + 3800 usd housing
free medical insurance (family too)
education allowance (covers around 80-85%)

no tax, cheap gas, skin cancer included :E

The management chose to ask the government for those guarantees, the government chose to provide the guarantees. The employees just negotiated the best deal for themselves and their families which they could, this is their legal right in a democratic country. As a shareholder you appointed the management that agreed their pay, if you didn't agree you would have sold your shares, if you didn't like the pay in the first place then you would not have bought the shares.

Unfortunately in Europe the right of Pilots to collectively negotiate a fair contract has been removed by ruthless management's who take advantage of discrepancies in the laws between the different countries. Recently some companies were targeting pay for 737 captains at below 50,000 GBP, that is the same as London underground train drivers. Contrary to popular belief operating jet aircraft in different environments and weather is a significantly more skilled job and responsible job than running a train on rails around a city.

Maybe BA have about the correct and fair scale for this job, but in my view salaries should be set by collective bargaining.

Flyboat,

The information you are posting is incorrect.

This is a professional pilot's forum. Do you have that instrument rating yet? When you do, come back here and maybe someone will help you find your first flying job.

Derfred,

Genuine question, putting aside some of Flyboat's emotive language, which part of his post is incorrect? Interested to know.