Nice to see reasoned discussion for a change. Its almost like Jeremy Corbyn at PM's question time

I appreciate the replies, it is always best to obtain opinions from those actually working for a company.

I must say I see some positives hinted at but I'm suprised at the little amount of people who say overwhelmingly they have a better quality of life as a result. To me, joining a new company is a big thing that presents large challenges, stressors and gives my family a slight headache so it needs to reward in quality of life. That's why I go to work, so always is my priority.

For a lot of years I always had the opinion that BA would provide a good quality of life and I aspired to join. But I've done some serious digging and tired to ask some searching questions. I tried to get away from the temptation to brush over niggles and wrote down as factually as I could what the draw backs and positives were as if it were a company that was unheard of, and was quite surprised. So suprised I did it again! Hence the reason I asked. I really do appreciate the honest input.


Thanks all.

Cheers

Shouldn't Force Assign become a thing of the past under JSS? However no one knows exactly quite what we've voted for with that..

Under JSS, force assign becomes known as "optimisation" I believe. But since it all happens before the rosters are published you never get to know how good your roster was before it was "optimised". You can't mourn the loss of something you never knew about I suppose! At least that is my understanding of it.

The difference is that optimisation looks at your bid groups and fulfills them as much as possible. Whereas Roster assign couldn't give a flying **** what you wanted if it can insert a trip in the gap you skilfully built.

With JSS, If your last bid group says I need 13/14 off for your brothers wedding and that's it, then, the chances of you working it even post optimisation are slim to none. The rest of your roster may look horrendous, but, let's face it it's the day off we want really, not the nights in Vegas or Cape Town.

Bid group 1 is your dream roster, bid group X is the back stop. Jeppesen don't think we'll get to bid group X.

Has the new variable pay system started yet? Its common knowledge that the bottom of BA's pay scale isn't the best, any evidence of it being made better or worse by this new system?

I've taken home consistently over £4000 a month since I joined, highest around £4,500. That's post the highest possible pension contribution and without any overtime whatsoever. If that "isn't the best" then I just want to ask, where exactly are you going to get more than that as a junior FO in the UK nowadays?

H M

Good post - Unlike eMaestro I hope JSS is delivered 100% as promised (both by BALPA and the company) and works as you describe.

£4000 is a fantastic salary and much more than the average person makes for sure. Now, what £4000 will get you in the London area (especially with a family) is a different story and I think this is why people suggested to leave the UK for better money, many places (even in the EU) have lower taxes for pilots, and most likely a quite different and less expensive government benefits system.
Having said that, to stay or not in the UK is a totally personal choice and need, I guess looking at contracts paying 3-4 times as much for the same or less work make some people wonder. As it' s been said many times before, it's just not that different anymore...go ask a 30 years captain if he would fly 900 hrs a year in the 80s in BA and you' ll get the drift.

4000GBP is really really good, wonder what fleet you're on..

I'm on the 787 and it looks more like 3500GBP take home each month, this is due blindlines not being very efficient on my fleet.

Thoughts from someone on the 320 (LHR) who joined BA 18 months ago.

I am thoroughly enjoying my time at BA, this is after 16 years military flying and 8 years in a low cost airline.

I am nowhere near the 900 hrs, in the last 12 months (July to July) I have flown 675hrs.

Like Rex above I am taking home on average £4100 after tax and max pension contribution, better than I was earning as a skipper at my previous airline.

Having a say on my roster is invaluable, I am already 40% off the bottom of the seniority list and got my third choice of tripline for September, how will JSS affect it? Who really knows but if (and it's a big if) it works as advertised then it should also allow us the ability to influence our rosters, certainly something most airlines don't allow.

I commute form Scotland and so far this year have averaged 10 days at home a month, when working I bid for trips which means little or no time in Heathrow hotels.

E-maestro allows us to use our bank to swop trips, drop trips and pick up overtime - again something most places don't allow.

Leave is generous and split evenly across the year so summer holidays with kids are possible if that's your thing - again in some airlines it's not possible to take leave over the summer period.

Crew food, crew hotels and time down route are good (there are some min rest trips but these are few and far between).

Staff travel is superb, as someone who not only commutes but also travels extensively it's saving me a fortune, we get concessions, hotline and standby travel not only on BA but most of the world airlines.

Yes there are issues, if the south east doesn't suit then commuting is possible, certainly from within Europe, is BA what it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago, of course not but show me a company in any line of business that is.

How is Alex Cruz going to affect the airline, who knows but from what I have been told he understands the brand and obviously wants to make it a success, that said it is a business and he is responsible to the shareholders, I don't believe we will be too affected at the sharp end (unlike those in the back rooms).

BA is a huge company with fantastic opportunities (fleet changes, training, management, recruiting etc) with a huge route network, like I said at the top I am enjoying it thoroughly that said its horses for courses and wouldn't suit everyone.

How long is the A320 captain upgrade? Is upgrading done just on seniority or are other factors involved? How quickly could an experienced A320 captain take to get to the left seat?

All based on seniority, company requirements and the bidding aspirations of those more senior than you. In practice, at the moment, Airbus commands have taken as little as a year from joining the company.

Some really excellent posts highlighting the pros and cons of BA. It'll still be a huge step up personally and I'll be even switching from left to right seat.

I'm very happy to be in the hold pool, just over 2 months and 3 weeks now, anybody got any offers recently or a tad more news? Cheers!

... and passing the course. The above only entitles you to the course. The upgrade is dependent on ability.

Actually received an email from BA recruitment today, all vacancies are now filled for 2016. Next update will be around September for vacancies opening up in 2017 after they have analyzed and planned all the internal transfers/training. Would they have the same type of demand in terms of numbers of pilots externally required? I believe 2016 has been an extraordinary busy year in terms of external recruitment.

I think it all depends on where you're coming from, as I personally came from a quite unstable company, with simply unmanageable rostering, I have come to BA and I think life is pretty easy.

Pluses at BA:

Decent skippers
Good Pay
An absolutely bullet proof agreement, roster changes and general messing around are a thing of the past. This was my major bug bear at my last operator
Lots of holidays and time off, it seems like I am always about to have leave or time off
12/13 days off a month, compared to my previous 8/10
Easily the most secure job in UK aviation
Good Pension
Fantastic staff travel
A fair seniority system.
Variety of routes
Good training.
I'll say it, some very decent, fair managers.
Variety of types,
An ops department who will ask favours, but also give them back. I have done them a few favours (coming in a little early, staying behind, swapping a trip to help them out) but they have in turn gotten me a best mates wedding off, taken exceptionally good care of me when I had a sick family member, swapped some leave, given me the trips i've wanted on reserve, you get the idea.

Negatives at BA:

Huge organisation and you can be very anon (some people like this)
Morale can be an issue, again nothing compared to how negative things can when you're about to be made redundant, or dealing with constant roster changes.
Uncertainty around JSS and management plans
Only SE base, this is really the only big downside for me, I would really love to be based closer to home up north.

Of course these are big issues for other guys, and I'm sure these negatives differ for other people, but these are purely as I have found them.

As for 900 hours, I would say I will do about 800 this year, summer is pretty heavy, but winter seemed very easy. I would agree the current manpower levels will undoubtedly need to be adjusted, but I guess that's why they are recruiting?

All in all a very good move FOR ME. I wouldn't come to BA just because its "the best job in UK aviation" because if being based in Manchester flying the 737 and being home every night is something you enjoy, BA isn't for you.

Very good post RHS..

And I'll second the "I'll say it, some very decent, fair managers."

I have a son with special needs and have needed some support twice in 18 months for my son and my fleet manager could not have been more supportive or helpful, i can literally pick the phone up and call him which is a big plus. If you have a genuine problem i think BA are very good indeed, in my experience anyway.
Being such a big organisation the problem can be knowing who to call!! :confused:

And if you don't like being away from home BA is definitely not for you!

About a year in
 

I'm about a year in on shorthaul having spent several years at a regional airline. There's lots of positives to BA which have been covered above like the generally nice Captains and crew, the roster stability etc. I have to say the biggest thing I miss about my old employer was the fact that in a smaller operation with regional bases you are flying with your mates everyday and build a really strong network of pals.

I certainly miss driving into work and flying with guys who I actually meet up with outside work, who I have around with their families for Sunday lunch etc or go for bike rides and pub lunches with. BA can feel really anonymous and isolating and it's literally rare to fly with the same guy twice within a year. It's taken quite some time for me to start to get to grips with this but then I'm a people person and building good relationships with people at work has always been important to me.

It's not that the people aren't nice because they are but starting a new job and a new type and feeling like you're the new boy at school every single day certainly gets wearing so just keep that in mind. It's not something I gave any thought to before I joined but it's been the single biggest challenge at least for me. I still miss the 'sixth for common room' banter of my old crewroom, the wit, the mockery and the flirting with an extensive array of delightful young cabin crew!

No regrets though and I still walk around that union jack tailfin and still feel genuinely thrilled that I achieved my boyhood dream and made it here! I feel proud to work for BA for sure and I love the strong customer service ethic that runs through everything they do i.e. I think they still really care about the catering, the customer service etc and for me that's an important element to the job - I like to work for a company whose product I believe in.
Hope that's helpful but it is a point I think nobody else has made amidst all the talk about bidline, days off, hotels and salaries.

Desk-pilot

I think that's fair comment, certainly one shouldn't join BA expecting a crewroom culture (there isn't one..a crewroom that is, although as you know there is a coffee bar of sorts in crew report) - if you crave banter you either have to hope a group of your mates join BA with you, or you may well have to cultivate a peer group outside BA.

That can be the case, and can have it's advantages, but it also can depend on the fleet - I can't speak for shorthaul but certainly on longhaul one consequence of the seniority system can be the same subset of folks going to the same destinations...be that NBO, LOS or SIN.. doing the late JFK...etc etc. Depending on bidding and preferences certainly on Longhaul you can end up flying with the same colleagues several times a year.

Agreed,

Been with the company for almost 11 years all on the 777. I take pleasure in going to work and flying my roster as published or more likely 'as swapped'.

I bid to go to the same places (out of about 55 different 777 destinations) and get to socialise with the same group of people, who like those places. Reserve is an eye opener when you get to fly with the rest of the fleet to all those places you probably forgot about.

Now have a to pop into Heathrow and finally decide my bid for 2017, remain on the 777, go to the 787 or Airbus Command? Other choices are available!

August Sim
 

Have a Sim date in August. Anybody else in the same boat want to chat about tips etc? Pm me.

How long does it take to hear the results of the first assessment? Had it recently and have not heard yet.

Hi all, I have an assessment on the 9th Aug.
Has anyone who sat it recently got any feedback or advice?

Len.

When is your assessment, mine is in August as well. Do you know if the 757 has definitely been retired as a sim option?

Boebus, Pistolpete, LondonLenny,

It seems that as you have just made your first posts, you will not be able to receive PMs yet.

However I am interested to ask how you managed to book sim dates in August? I have been checking at least daily for nearly 4 months and have not seen a single date available on the system... am I doing something wrong or do they just get snapped up that fast?

Ta!

FYI
 

I'm an FO A320 LHR and I've flown no more than 750 hrs in the last 365 days.

'Do you know if the 757 has definitely been retired as a sim option?'

I think you realllllly need to do some homework, if you are asking this question.

To be fair though- the sim notes they provide for day 3 includes the 757 which is why he's probably asking..

Many military colleagues have used PM Flight with positive results and not just BA assessment.

To be fair though- the sim notes they provide for day 3 includes the 757 which is why he's probably asking..

Nope, to be fair, he should read through this thread........homework.....

@A340Yumyum, he does ask a perfectly reasonable question and if you don't want to answer it, don't waste your time replying back to him, you only put off our fellow colleagues within the industry from asking for advise. The answer to that question is not definitively answered within this forum. However, even if it was, I don't see that reading through 157 pages of Pprune is doing your homework and taking 'goodness knows who wrote that article' as gospel.

757 sim has definitely gone and its space is now occupied by a newly built 787 sim. Assessment is only on the 747 now.

757 is dstill in use, at Fed Ex

Hey Dupre, sorry about the late reply. Got sent the Sim dates in an email direct from recruitment. Replied straight away and got a date. Didn't log in to the system at all.

Reckon you should email them to check in and let them know you are still keen.

MSN001

Very unlikely until all the bid results have been analysed and fleet plans and course requirements for next year firmed up. So end of this year at the earliest. I suspect that there will be quite a few SH FO's with successful LH bids this year. They should get courses before any LH DEPs are recruited.

Regards

And rightly so!

I heard that BA has a direct entry path for UK military aviators.
Does anyone know if there is also a possibility for foreign military aviators to join BA without heavy fixed wing experience?

AFrotary

Don't think so the website says

"If you are a service pilot in the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy, Royal Marines or Army Air Corps you can apply via the Managed Path"

Seems pretty specific but probably worth a try

I am pretty certain that any such application would be discarded, without a further glance. BA's stated criteria for DEP, with regard to previous experience, are pretty specific. Ignoring them is a sure way to getting your application binned.