BA?
 

Without wishing to sound like a stuck record, has anybody in BA heard of any recent DEP rumours? Last time I asked the same question; a few of you had heard on various SEP days that things might be firing up again in 2014, just wondered if this was a now a serious consideration? Surely the cadet hiring binge can't go on indefinitely?

Hi,

The results of the yearly fleet bidding process should be released within the next couple of weeks. Only then will BA know where the slots/gaps will be in the comming year and where recruitment needs to be targeted.

The first cadets, those who started the recruitment process in autumn 2011, start their type ratings in the next 4 weeks or so. All the cadets will be going onto short haul at LHR or LGW. If there is a requirement for any longhaul pilots these will have to come from from outside of the cadet ranks.

Whether there will be such a requirement however, is another question, and I have no idea of the answer.

sorry!

Thanks very much. Yes somebody else told me about a system called 'Casandra' which predicts a shortfall on any given fleet. I know two people, however, one on the Trippler and another on the Bus and they're working very hard.

That's because it's the way BA want it. They have been granting a great deal of Short Term Unpaid Leave. (the key word being 'unpaid'!) in order to save money. should they wish to increase the number of available pilots, one assumes they will simply cancel this arrangement.

Up to (and including) 2016, out of a workforce of 3700-3800, only twenty six pilots will hit 65. In BA, virtually nobody retires voluntarily before then. Please feel free to draw your own conclusions!

Edited to add: There is an unspoken assumption in the above that 65 remains the compulsory retirement age. That may prove to be a poor assumption. Bear in mind also that the average age of BA's most senior 1000 captains is currently less than 52.

BA, yawn - after jumping through the hoops already I have no interest spending any money to drown in that particular pool. Fool me once.....

Unfortunately a few poor sods have had to suffer the indignation of death by drowning twice in the space of 4 years!

BA will have no end of applicants for future DEP positions. I can't see them getting overly excited if previous 'poolers' fail to reapply. There is no guarantee that they'd be invited to assessment, pass said assessment or even find themselves with a position. I see your point I suppose

I'm trying but what is wrong with your pension if you have to stay on to 65? I'm LoCo and retiring at 60!

Errr...Life's pretty good in BA at the top of the list. Nothing to do with the pension.

Phensocks....in loco...I'd be gone at 55!

So are the rumours mentioning 2014 unfounded?

Recruitment is unlikely next year.

2015 at the earliest is my best guess!

The retirement age was extended to 65 on 1/10/2006. Therefore the oldest pilot in BA is currently just approaching his/her 62nd birthday (anyone older would have been forced to retire at 55). The relatively small number of retirements in 2016 is because there are only three months left in which people attain 65. In subsequent years the normal retirement rate will resume.

Until they change the rules again, here in Australia a pilot can now fly as long as he can hold a medical. My Captain last week was 69 and had no intention of retiring anytime soon!

Unfortunately the old boys are staying on to the bitter end! I remember flying with the lucky ones who scraped in to the new 65 years of age retirement date with their crystallised final salary pensions saying that they'd only stay on for a couple of years, then it was I'll go at 60, then it was I'll go part time after 60 but as you've guessed the vast majority are still full time (it must be tough living on only 270 G a year!). I have no intention of working beyond 60 so this is now effecting my career. I imagine that they will fight to fly beyond 65 but if they want me to sit next to them then BA better Give me a premium payment as there is a higher chance of grandad popping it! You only have so many heart beats in your life.:hmm:

Not 100% accurate IMHO (think Dan Air)

NOD

Very true, but this must be a very small number (would have to be 55 to 58 on 1/10/06) and they would be included in the figure of 26 retirements.
My point is, that after the retirement hiatus after Oct 2006, the normal retirement rate will resume after 1/10/2016 (unless the age increases again).

Get back to us in 20 years, when you are 57 and we'll see what you say then :ok:

I sort of look upon airline pilots wanting to carry on to 65 in much the same way as Bruce Forsyth tries to keep going on Strictly come dancing, just keep on clinging on. We all live in our own time. Please don't be greedy and arrogant, but i fear many know nothing else.

It must be frustrating to feel that you are being prevented from accessing some opportunities because people are retiring later. Calling people greedy and arrogant because they enjoy their work and wish to continue is questionable though. It is a free market! One can also argue that asking them to retire just so you can have a slightly improved chance of getting their job is rather greedy and arrogant in its own right.

Think bmi as well

Many pilots simply won't have decent pensions because their companies won't make reasonable arrangements, especially for contractors, and with the current cost of living, many have family commitments that tie up their income preventing significant personal schemes. So, most pilots simply won't be able to retire early. Remember that the UK has announced a state pension age of 69 already, so there is already a big problem for many who will retire at 65, never mind earlier.

Given that historically it used to take donkeys years to get into the lhs of a jet and quick commands are a relatively new phenomenon, isn't it a little bit rich for FOs to be whining about skippers being selfish by continuing to work and not giving said FOs their positions and pay? As for demanding that current captains have to retire early so that the complainant can also retire early, it smacks a little of hypocrisy, to be honest...

I understand that people aren't retiring, people are on ULV, BMI pilots have filled the ranks but are there still enough people to crew the new aircraft?

Three thirty. We have the first of the Future Pilot programme cadets joining us on the 73 or 320 in the next few months. I have heard rumours of potentially up to 5000 flight crew on BA's books in the next 5 years or so with the increased long haul flying programmer now BA has the extra slots after the BMI takeover? If that is the case, that is an extra 1500 jobs not even taking in to account the inevitable retirements but that is rumour control & I guess will depend on an ever improving world economy. Unfortunately with the lack of airport expansion in the UK & second highest airport taxes in the world (after Chad I believe) we can take nothing for granted.:confused:

5000 flight crew on BA's books in the next 5 years or so? Ha ha ha ha!

HA HA HA indeed! All BA pilots are continuously driven to be more 'productive'. More significant changes coming for SH next year. That's before EASA ignore the scientists to crank up the workload ever higher. We have 3700-3800 pilots at the moment. The Airbus is over crewed, and we are already flying two new fleets. Further additions will, by and large be replacements rather than expansion hulls. I predict BA pilot numbers will peak well below 4000, before falling back to where we are now. Just in time for Vueling's 60 plus new A320s to take over the rump of BA's SH operation.

It may even prove to be a mistake to rule out A350s being operated by non mainline crews on behalf of IAG?

Change is definitely coming to BA!

Is that what you think will happen, or is it what you want to happen? Let's all race to the bottom! If BA allow non-mainline crew to fly the 350 then everyone in UK aviation is screwed as far as T&Cs are concerned.

No, just current mainline pilots will be :=

Juan

Have you been in BA long enough to remember when BA offered LGW 777 flying on charter T&Cs for anyone willing to step outside of BLRs?

People were nearly killed in the stampede for early commands. That was before 'stagnation', and I was one of them!

There would be MASSIVE appetite for such a deal on A350s!

To think otherwise is idiotic.

If the company that has the country's leading terms and conditions slashes those conditions, what do you think will happen to the terms and conditions elsewhere?

4421 - there were many different contracts back then with EOG etc. that does not mean that your desire to see BA pilots split into many reduced contracts will happen in the future.

Already has happened; last year's B scale contracts with 34 PP's.

Oh here we go...

Sounding more and more like Cathay! You'll be voting for contract compliance next...

Frankly, nobody other than those offering a totally specious argument to justify their 'leading terms and conditions' gives a :mad:!

The desire for BA pilots to be split came from within, not from without!!!

The hunger is still there!

The market has changed significantly - the days of retiring at 55 is simply laughable even if you wanted to.

The BA days of earning £150k+ will become history, and we will look at today as a rosy period for BA flightdeck.

When BA drops T&Cs, everyone moves down a notch and even BA has to maintain a competitive position of sorts. That said, its offer to new cadets is very fair in the current environment and should be praised.

Those entering BA going forwards, however, have to be realistic but it's still the best place in the South of England to work and is just on the same downward trend as the industry overall.

RHS yes, that statement too simplistic otherwise (things have actually improved in certain areas recently).

BA T&Cs will get worse, but it's still the best place to work as a commercial pilot in the UK. If you want the big money faster post pay-point 34 scales, sadly you need to move overseas. The aviation world is evolving whether we in the pilot profession like it or not.

A bold statement! I think there are some who would beg to differ ;)

FANS said:

When BA drops T&Cs, everyone moves down a notch and even BA has to maintain a competitive position of sorts. That said, its offer to new cadets is very fair in the current environment and should be praised.



Inviting young wonder kids to remortgage their parents house to the tune of £84,000... Very fair... Well done Willie! :ugh:

No cadet has remortgaged their parent's house to fund training. That was the whole idea in the first place. :ugh:

At the arse end of the seniority list at BA it is worth knowing that there are jobs in the UK that will give you more consecutive days off, more whole weekends off and faster access to progression. However if these are all essentials then don't apply to BA!

It offers stability and security, a fair contract - even with PP34. Would I attempt to join again, I don't know. I will probably have lost 400 places on the list and 10 points on the pay scale after passing through the hoops of the last DEP campaign, only to be drowned by a bunch of bmiers and FPP hotshots :p
Still, a pretty good gig and if I was joining as a cadet in his or her mid to early twenties, I'd be laughing.