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-   -   BALPA save BA money! (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/510212-balpa-save-ba-money.html)

Count Niemantznarr 22nd Mar 2013 16:17

There was an 'understanding' with the Company that if attendance became a problem on certain identified routes which had previously paid high allowances, BALPA would have to deal with it. NRT became a weak link when the hourly rate was introduced. Previously allowances were so lucrative for BA flight crew flying to NRT and other Japanese destinations, some senior F/O's had even turned down promotion in order to cherry pick the route. One eventually became a Samurai! He only managed 300 trips to Japan.


The hourly rate did seem a good wheeze at the time, but with their usual lack of pragmatism, BA flight crew failed to see the possibility what a debased Pound would have on their downroute purchasing power. Now of course jealous pilots accuse the cabin crew of eroding profitability, but are not aware that far more damage is caused to a routes viability by a weak Pound on fuel and leasing costs, plus the associated inflationary pressures on UK imports that feed through to wage demands.

Yes a meal at Fatties with a few beers, is a costly experience these days for BA pilots.

cessnapete 22nd Mar 2013 17:38

MF costs etc.
 
Thats why Syd going to MF in Sept.
Huge decrease in crew costs, and one local night less in Sin, which with the imminent introduction of the 777 will hopefully help make the route viable again.

Count Niemantznarr 22nd Mar 2013 18:34

So what savings have BA flight crew offered on the LHR - SYD route?

Do you really need two Captains on the LHR - SIN - LHR sectors?

What about the two Club seats 60A/B that have to remain unsold just in case one of you wants to watch a film?

Two 747 flights to SIN every night, four Club seats that can't be sold each way. 1460 Club pax denied a seat with a fare of £2500 (BA.com fares for June) average each both sectors = £7,300,000 potential loss of revenue annually. And the flight Crew have bunks as well. This loss of revenue is just so that they can choose to watch a film or not!

Not only does it look bad having staff sitting in passenger seats, many customers would prefer to sit in those seats.

This is where the breathtaking arrogance of BA pilots on this forum, who criticise other employees for not cutting their pay or getting to market rate, is exposed. Pilots act as strikebreakers, yet their own union agreements as illustrated here over Club rest seats, is costing BA millions in lost revenue.

Wirbelsturm 22nd Mar 2013 18:53


What about the two Club seats 60A/B that have to remain unsold just in case one of you wants to watch a film? Two flights to SIN every night, four Club seats that can't be sold. 730 Club pax denied a seat with a fare of £3500 average each way = £2,555,000 each year lost by BA.
Could say the same about all the cabin crew rest seats on all the flights across the network. Including all the two flight crew sectors.

Careful what you wish for.

Count Niemantznarr 22nd Mar 2013 19:21

Wibblestim, you are being untruthful. The cabin crew rest seats are not saleable seats, but in an overhead rest area not accessed by passengers on both aircraft types.

The Club seats allocated for Flight Crew rest on the 747-400 and four class 777-200ER's could be sold. In fact more often than not you do not even use them.They are just empty.

Wirbelsturm 22nd Mar 2013 20:00


The cabin crew rest seats are not saleable seats, but in an overhead rest area not accessed by passengers on both aircraft types.
Not true, there are crew rest seats at the back of economy on the 777-200 and usually non sold economy seats even on the 300 series.

If there are overhead rest areas available on the 777 then there are no seats in the cabin for flight crew either. The only time cabin rest seats are available (normally 11k) for flight crew are if there is a 'dog box' at the back of first class. Cabin seats are only allocated for specific sectors as labelled in the FCN.

Do try and keep up Count.

wiggy 22nd Mar 2013 20:25


There was an 'understanding' with the Company that if attendance became a problem on certain identified routes which had previously paid high allowances, BALPA would have to deal with it. NRT became a weak link when the hourly rate was introduced.
Yep, I well remember all the dire warnings from certain senior folks (perhaps with vested interests?) about the dangers of the hourly rate and the "unattractive" destinations. Nevertheless I don't remember NRT becoming such a "weak link" that BALPA or BA had to "deal with it". As you correctly said in your earlier post it simply went "junior".


The cabin crew rest seats are not saleable seats, but in an overhead rest area not accessed by passengers on both aircraft types.
As Wirble. has pointed out that's not true on the 777-200's.

Count Niemantznarr 23rd Mar 2013 00:25

Wubblestrim,you are still trying to muddy the water. The
GE 777-200's to be specific, are not long range aircraft, so do not fly to SIN. There is no dedicated overhead rest area on those aircraft so a curtained off area with one row of three seats is allocated. Flight crew frequently upgrade themselves from the 11K Club seat on three man pilot sectors, to a First class seat.

Currently on non stop flights to SIN and back, on both 747's the flight crew compliment is four, two Captains and two F/O's. These sectors could easily be accomplished with just one Captain and two F/O's. This alone would save BA at least £3m a year on the SIN/LHR sectors. Giving up the two Club seats as well would give a total saving of around £5.5m a year. More than four times the amount BA may save by replacing Legacy cabin crew on the route.

BA has been held to ransom for too long over these costly flight crew perks, profitability on routes should not be subject to archaic union diktats.

Hand Solo 23rd Mar 2013 06:22

It can't be done with one Captain and two FO's any more than it can be done with 12 cabin crew. Or are you volunteering that?

Now, where did you get the precise breakdown of actual passenger loads and ticket prices to determine BA could have sold those rest seats for £2.5M? Or did you just pluck that number out of thin air?

I'll tell you what would save money though: giving the cabin crew 7 sets of eyeshades from the washbags rather than hundreds of pounds when the lights in the bunks won't go out.

Sir Richard 23rd Mar 2013 09:22

Comrade Count,

I hope the foot is getting better?


Flight crew frequently upgrade themselves from the 11K Club seat on three man pilot sectors, to a First class seat.
ONLY if a First seat remains unsold, leaving 11K for the CSD?


profitability on routes should not be subject to archaic union diktats.
Maybe both feet need attention after being shot so many times?

Atropos1 28th Mar 2013 12:06

For goodness sake guys, I've just read through this drivel and after getting over the laughter I'm asking myself: 'why on earth are you bothering?'. It looks like a silly internal spat between BA emplyees, even though some of them no longer are BA employees!

Please let them whine their way into the obscurity they deserve and stop feeding them the oxygen they need to believe they actually matter.

Airclues 28th Mar 2013 14:48

Count

Without wanting to get into the cabin/flight crew politics, I was interested in your statement that the LHR-SIN-LHR trip could be flown with three pilots. Having looked at CAP371 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF I cannot see how this could be achieved. Would you be so kind as to explain your calculations?

PS...of course the new EASA regulations could change that when they come into force?

Charlie Pop 8th May 2013 16:29

And the results are in! Following some not so subtle pressure by some individuals the skivers charter has been accepted! Feel a little sniffle coming on? Don't bother coming into work, just phone in sick and somebody else will do the work you get paid for. Oh, they've been force drafted because there's so much sickness? Never mind sucker, you should have had some dependents or union days you could swing to avoid the draft. And when EASA up the annual flying hours you'll be giving your employer 100 more hours of your time for nothing (did you really think they would be able to 'afford' to renegotiate the fixed payment?).

Congratulations to the British Airways Captains Council, possibly the fastest ever turnaround between winning something for the members and handing it straight back to BA with nobs on!

Chris Griffin 8th May 2013 17:57

So, just for clarity, which way did you vote Charlie?

Suggest you try the balpa forum and avoid trolling here. Laundry, public etc...

Juan Tugoh 8th May 2013 18:26

That's the trouble with democracy, it's a bitch when your rhetoric does not win the argument and the vote goes against you. At least there is Pprune to come to, where you can whine about the unfairness of it all.

no sponsor 14th May 2013 06:44

Turnout was disappointing. Again. The most frustrating aspect is flying with people who say they didn't like either option, and didn't like the way the BACC handled it, so they didn't vote.

I do think that BALPA have shot us all by claiming a victory in the holiday pay, only to then find the legal implication of actually winning the case has meant many regular line pilots will lose over the long term.


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