A4:
Hopefully not but 24 months sounds very generous....

Why, what's happening in the next 24 months??
Monarch have several new airbus on the way and are pushing out new routes and bases.
Isn't it easyjet that are laying off flexi crew for the winter?
Something you know that we don't??

@serenity

I don't know anything :O However I believe that Greece will default and have to exit the Euro (shortly). I also think there is a risk that similar could happen to Spain. Over 50% of 16-24 year olds unemployed. Spain is responsible for almost one third of all unemployment within the Eurozone. The 17(?) autonomous regions of Spain need to refinance €30 billion of debt before the end of the year. Spain is screwed..... Italy?

There is a €uro crisis firestorm coming at some point in the not too distant future - how and who it affects I don't know, but I sincerely hope that Monarchs backers are willing to do what's likely to be necessary for it to come out the other side.

A4

A4
 

You are recycling news that isn't news anymore.

Let me tell you here and now: If Greece, Spain and Italy all default, it won't be just Monarch that disappear.

BA, Air France/KLM, easy, Ryanair and many other far more significant businesses (banks, stores, hotel chains, tour companies etc etc) than airlines will cease to exist.

You haven't got any facts to base your bullsh1t on, so I'd give it a rest if I were you.

Given the choice, in your scenario, I'd rather join a Swiss backed outfit (40 years of history) than a low cost (15 years or so history) low cost airline in Luton.

A4 -
If its really that bad, then what happens to Monarch will be the least of many problems. There are plenty of other airlines that will fold or go for mass lay offs long before Monarch.
Over the past few years Monarch have continued to recruit and organise terms to keep pilots employed while many other airlines have gone to the wall or cut staff drastically. Many are still not in strong positons , Thomas cook and Air Berlin to name a couple. But they strive on.

As for the wider implications of what you say, then it sounds like mass collapse of the European financial system and that will lead to governments, banks and multiple other companies to have huge problems or to collapse. These will in turn feed other disasters.

I really don't think things will be allowed to get that far!
Monarch will survive for sure. Their pilots will still fly planes.
If this did all happen, how many bases will Easyjet close?? How many staff will they drop like a hot rock?? How much support will BALPA be able to give??
Best look a bit closer to home for your doomsday senario!!

I do hope it will never happen to any of us!!

FLEXI
 

It appears not all flexi guys are 20 something 150h cadets. There're a fewexperienced ones I flown with who signed on the promise of a perm contractwithin 6 months. Condition are being degraded by stealth i.e. individuals are being approached by easy via parc “would you like aperm contract? here it is LISBON -40% TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT". BERLIN at the moment,would you like a perm contract? Ok there you are on your existing pay but permnonetheless (for 2 years) what will happen after 2 years is anybody’s guess.Bet that was not spelled out by either parc or easy upon joining.

I HOPE ALL YOU GUYS JOINING VIA THE PARC RECENT ADVERT READ THIS AND ALL OF THE ABOVEPOSTS.

I don't profess to being an expert in economics but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that Europe only appears to be going one-way at the moment...

From easyJet's point of view, here we have an airline that has spread itself right across Europe, significantly flying point to point within the continent. Surely this doom and gloom is going to hit it harder than someone like Monarch who I'm guessing really only deals with UK holidaymakers (take the closure of ezy MAD for example). If Greece collapses then holidays will be cheaper there, same goes for Spain. Demand from UK holiday makers would go up on that basis, no? After all, the southern mediterranean holiday hotspots are going to want to do all they can to maintain tourism in these areas.

The biggest problem will be if and when UK gets dragged down with Europe, hitting us all hard. I presume this is what you mean A4 and I agree with you. easyJet has a reasonably large exposure to countries that are struggling economically. This is probably something they wish to investigate more than offering permanent contracts to cadets. Sadly.

@Narrow

No need to be so vicious := yes it's recycled news - from about 6 days ago. Do you seriously think the Greece/Spain/(Italy) sovereign debt issues are solved! Greeces economy is predicted to contract 10% this year - please explain how thats going to pan out with their repayments. Have they not also missed over 100 of the austerity measures required to secure their next tranch of bailout funds this month? May be the politicos will manage to kick it down the road for another few weeks/months - but eventually the wheels will come off. Of course I could be talking bull$hit and making it all up - you believe what you like.

Did I say that only Monarch would be affected - no I didn't. I have no intention of getting into a pi$$ing contest about who will/won't survive - I merely mentioned Monarch in the context of thread because guys are leaving U2 to MON because of the current deal they're on - totally understandable - that's all.

I'm also acutely aware that the implications at U2 will be huge - I just don't feel the need to shout people down, accuse people of bull$hit because I don't agree with them or tell them to "give it a rest, if I were you" on what is supposed to be a Professional's forum. :hmm:

A4

PS - Narrow. Your location says "Dark Side of the Moon" - I suggest you stick it on and listen to "The Great Gig in the Sky" and chill out a bit.

The stream of cadets will not stop unless either a) they are all referred to relevant PPRuNe threads about Flexicrew before signing up for their training or b) light is made in the public about the probability of illegality of FlexiCrew in terms of using contractors in permanent positions. Of those that visit this site, most of them/us have heard conflicting opinions on whether or not the information is truthful or exaggerated.

As much as I question cadets signing up at the moment given what is going on, the attitude of some senior flight crew, at least on this forum, is shocking.
What will happen when captains start being told they have to take lower T&Cs or upgrades have to stay on or be transferred to Flexicrew - will they 'unite' to stop this as they preach to the cadets or simply blame them for this as well? Needless to say I'll standby with the popcorn to see what happens as at the moment with the LHSers sitting on, from what I gather, decent employment terms there seems to be an attitude of pulling up the ladder and sodding the rest.

People keep ragging on being realistic but as I alluded to earlier, unless the current staff are proactive and not reactive about this situation, it'll just continue until it's too late.

BALPA appears to spectate throughout so probably best not to bother them.

When it is too late the buggers it will effect most severely will be those with debt.ie the new flexicrew idiots. Bricks the lot of you. So shocking its not what you want to hear.... poor you .....choke on your popcorn.... you reactive idiot.

Ruffled some feathers have I? Wishing death on someone has rather the reverse effect on an internet forum..

I am not a CTC cadet nor do I intend to apply in the forseeable future - mind you its nice to hear that you hold your potential co-workers in such high regard :ok:

i like tea:

What would your opinion be on this new 2-year Berlin contract? It seems with all these rumours flying around of stand-downs this winter that guys would be jumping to take any alternative if it guaranteed a couple of years flying. I myself haven't been offered it while guys around me have and no one seems to know what's best.

A4
 

I do admire your ability to state the obvious with such even handedness.

I'm also very grateful for your I depth posts on the Euozone economy, it has been such an eye opener for me.

As a Professor of Economics, I'm surprised you have time to post on here. But my sincerest thanks for enlightening us all with your undeniably great wisdom.

Ok..... I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway NR - I obviously touched something to warrant such assertive replies. I see you've now gone from the "Darkside" to the "IMF" which must be much more stressful - also that you've edited about -100% of your post whilst I'm typing this..... I can't keep up!

You know what they say about opinions? They're like........ So yes I've got opinions and that's why I express them..... :confused: how else would it work? I try to be objective as opposed to personal and vitriolic.

I reiterate, that I only mentioned Monarch in the context of this thread and the fact that guys are leaving EZY to get a permanent contract which is totally understandable - I know many of them! Do you seriously think I WISH ill on my colleagues?

€uro firestorm, MON or EZY or BA or VAA or RYR.... whatever happens, happens.

Out.

Sorry if this is a silly question, and off-topic, but I've read in several places that Flexi crew is something that is blocked elsewhere in Europe...

Yet in the UK its accepted with a "there's nothing we can do" attitude. Does the fact that its successfully blocked elsewhere in Europe not prove that there is something which can be done?

I know that our Europe friends are much more 'active' in efforts to protect their industries (any industry). Is that all it is? The UK unions just don't want to fight? Thats certainly how it appears.

Very differing laws.

I can't comfortably say cadets couldn't care less about the above.

Their interest is in will I get to fly an A320 after training. end of.

Talking about Lisbon "crappy" conditions....
 

Hello guys, I heard everything about the wages in Lisbon for those 2 years captain contracts, does anyone have a reliable figure?
For the little story, the new answer a Portuguese pilot gets when he complains about his working conditions in a local Airline (i.e..refused days off, leave...etc) is:
-"If you are not happy, just go to easyJet"

Very sad to hear, and very bad for the reputation of a company,...reputation, reputation?
-who cares about reputation nowadays, I am being really old fashion!
:rolleyes:

Hi guys,


I have found this thread interesting, I am currently flying for an eastern Europe Lcc, on permanent contract but with bad T&C, guess which :cool:

I would like to apply for easy so to get some chance to be one day back home, or at least, close to.

But now reading some posts I have doubts: leaving a bad, but permanent contract, for a temporary one and little chances to upgrade for permanent.

I had info that parc flexi crew in the past had good chances to apply for a permanent one, is this now changed?

Thanks to all...
:ok:

Do not leave a permenent contract to play hired gun for Parc or CTC. Easyjet have no intention of offering permenent contracts to anybody anytime soon.