Staff Travel for bmi retirees
 

Retirees are set to lose ALL our concession travel when integration into BA is complete, round about October time.

Looks like we're being shafted yet again!!

At least I've still got my pension

Mind over matter, they don't mind we don't matter

As a retired BA pilot, I lose all my Staff Travel at the age of 89, i.e. my length of service added to my retirement age. This is, as I understand it the rule within BA, so a BMI retiree won't have any service with BA, consequently no staff travel. Since I probably won't make that age, it doesn't matter to me but it might to my wife. It also matters enormously to those ex BA pilots who retired after a relatively short career.

Nothing is fair in this world!

89? bloody hell, by that age I expect to be sitting in a bath chair dribbling and raving about hearing bells, not jetting off round the world.

On a personal note, when I retire I intend to never set foot in either an aircraft or more especially an airport ever again. Enough already. Imagine suffering all the bullsh*t at Delhi or any US city on a voluntary basis.:eek:

But then I am known as a grumpy old git.

Wish I could just waltz into BA. Tried the conventional way enough times.:ugh:

hautemude

When I was employed by bmi I enjoyed excellent staff travel with BA. On every occassion everyone went out of their way to get me on when flights were fully booked, including a couple of jump seat rides. I cannot praise the company highly enough.

Retirees have, until October, a very good concession package, which will be swept way through no fault of our own. If bmi had gone belly-up fair enough but as it was sold as a going concern I feel somewhat aggrieved by this turn of events

It's just a bit annoying that over thirty years of service don't count one for one jot at the end of the day.

Something about monkeys and nuts springs to mind

I am not sure why retired BMI pilots would expect any staff travel concessions from BA, given that their airline is now defunct. If you were to lose your pensions, that would be an absolute tragedy that would have to be challenged - but to lose staff travel concessions for an airline you never worked a day for? I am a slight loss to understand the problem. Your airline no longer exists therefore there is no airline to give you staff travel benefits - how unfair is that?

Oh the young have so much to learn :rolleyes:

Pete, it is indeed an unfair world :ugh:

Max pete sounds like your asking for staff travel on the titanic once its sunk its sunk.

Not exactly top of the list for bmi baby pilots ! :ugh:

Suck it up !! What a shame you'll have to pay full price for a ticket a couple of times a year !! :{

I've never used concession travel in the last twelve years but I know some of my ex-colleagues use it regularly.

AdeM, yes I've never worked for BA and yes I used to use my concession travel with them a lot in the 1980s. It was part of the deal, so can't work out your logic

777D, I recommend Queens Grill on all the Cunard ships, luxury without the aggro of sinking and embarking and disembarking is a damn sight easier than LHR on a quiet day, if there is ever one.

BB, My thoughts are never far away from the unenviable plight of all the bmibaby employees, not just the pilots

;)

Ever heard of inflation? :rolleyes:

To all those saying tough s***t there is a wider point here.
BMI has been sold as a going concern along with all the extras that come with an operating company many of which are part and parcel of the employees terms and conditions.

Now staff who have retired already are having those terms altered and as things stand there is nothing they can do about it. Yes we all have sympathy with the BMI Baby staff not just the pilots but that does not mean that it is acceptable for BA to behave in this manner.

Several wrongs do not make it ok for the smallest wrong to go ahead.

Did you used to get staff travel with LH, the old owners of BMI?

BMI doesn't even exist anymore! It was bought. It was for sale in the first place because it was doing s***e. The alternative may have been a lot worse...then who would you blame for having no staff travel? Why would it ever make business sense to offer staff travel to the retirees of a company you have just bought?

If you don't have staff travel anymore, blame BMI (RIP), they put themselves in a position where they became up for sale.

BA not a charity shocker!

In an amazing revelation today it emerged that the evil company BA is not a charity. Apparently it will not give lucrative retirement benefits to people that never worked for it. Who will stop this evil monster from its vile excesses? Why are the government sitting idly by while this corporate monster runs amok with innocent people's lives? This correspondent will not rest until this outrageous injustice is addressed and everyone that has not ever been employed by BA has these subsidised travel perks. This wrong must be righted!

now i must admit i have taken less of a interest since the main question of do i or dont i have a job was answered but I could be sure that the balpa news letter on friday stated that pilots will have their bmi service counted towards their ba staff travel benefits in retirement. This was indeed a improvement on what was previously offered. I would hope baby pilots would be more of a priority for discussion but your correct two wrongs dont make a right.

It most certainly does exist. It holds its own AOC and is a fully owned subsidiary of IAG who unfortunately, instead of making a break with the over staffed, union dominated and bloated operations which they already own, have decided to integrate the company into one them.

Not for much longer.

I'm with you Juan Tugoh, let us not remain silent anymore! I cannot sit idly by with such injustice! While we are at it can we also see if I could get some free space travel as I quite like the idea of that and NASA are not currently flying there!! :{

Such emotive comments just because a few coffin dodgers lost a concession, because that's all it was, just a concession.

I remeber all hell breaking loose when the striking cabin crew at BA faced the loss of a much guarded perk
;)

Please tutor us more on the correct way in which we should think. Perhaps a more Germanic way would be better? Perhaps the example of Lufty and their truly vile and appalling treatment of the BMI guys with regard to their pensions would be a good place to start.

Get your own house in order before you elect to try and correct our thinking - that last post was some of the most hypocritical nonsense I have seen posted on this forum.

Turn your critical eye on yourself before you choose to lecture others on the way they think.

This thread is another example of how low the piloting community has sunk.

Honestly, the "I'm alright Jack and :mad: you" attitude is not far short of digusting.

When Company B buys Company A, Company B thereby accepts responsibility for the pension scheme of Company A.

Apparently, the above somehow doesn't apply when Company BA buys another Company. :rolleyes:

BA haven't, but IAG have and as far as I'm aware, they are also a solvent company...

jhr187,

I think you'll find that IAG has bought bmi, minus of course the pension fund and bmiRegional and all perfectly legally?? They got stuck with bmiBaby which ceases operation in September

Apologies to those who are regulars for repeating the recent events but our friend here looks a bit new and perhaps is still finding his way around pprune.
;)

Lufthansa refused to enter a legal binding agreement to continue to fund the bmi Pension Scheme.

Lufthansa put the Pension Scheme into a shell company with a single German director and funds of £1

Lufthansa made the shell company insolvent, forcing the scheme into the assessment period with the PPF

Enough said on that one or I'll get banned from this site!
:uhoh:

Pete

Ignoring the rather assumptive and rude 'look he's only a newbie' comment, it doesn't make my one sentence contribution to this topic any less relevant.

I fully empathise with the people who are losing something with this deal, be it majorly with Baby, or minorly - staff travel perks for retired staff. Let us not forget that, although maybe not to be praised in their handling of the deal, IAG were not the ones who steered the BMI fiscal situation to where it was.

Frankly, and without meaning to be personal, I would have thought that the lack of travel perks for retired staff, once their previous employer has been sold to a new company, is way at the bottom of the list of things to bemoan.

As newly retired BA flight crew myself, I'm very sorry for the BMI pension state of affairs, but utterly ashamed and disgusted that all staff in BMI, including retirees have not been given full staff travel rights with BA . I would like to have seen them given full recognition for years of service, comparable concessions and full staff travel rights within BA.

Rumour has it that a few commuting cabin crew were at the root of it; I can well believe it. Whereas most flight crew I know if caught commuting bought the occasional full fare ticket...I watched cabin crew go sick with the same self centred lack of principle that I saw them attempting to dictate to me as Captain, and then watch the BASSA have flights cancelled to protect their members. On behalf of all the good folk in BA, I apologise for those in the BA community who have so stuffed them over staff travel.

If anything, the standards of BMI flight crew are higher than BA, and I welcome their addition to strengthen BA and aplogise for their shoody treatment for which I and many are heartily ashamed.

macfloppy,

Many thanks for your support
;)

Just a very simple Management issue that has not been addressed correctly. The very reason Unions became established. At the start of my career I held the view that if Management was really good, there would be no need for a Union. The extremely poor management & lack of professional management skill has led to the simple issue under discussion here. Bmi pilots are being "absorbed" and should ease into all benefits on a pro rata basis. Not easy to solve all of the issues but isn't that what we expect from the "Management Team" ?

Staff Travel is a concession & one which can be reviewed and/or removed at any time. Pilots with long service develop an expectation. That expectation should be reviewed and understood by management.

Colleague & dear friend of mine just (forced) into early retirement by GulfAir after 17 years service was dismayed when he lost ALL staff travel entitlement. Cost cutting meant that new rules came into force recognising only, at least 20 years service. The benefit would last for only half of the time served. This from a Company still trading but, clearly, under difficult conditions. My mate made a big noise to everyone he could think of who MIGHT listen. His Staff Travel letter stated "in recognition of your long service" and went on to list the benefits. Someone did listen & to the company's credit, reviewed and re-instated all with 15 years minimum unbroken service. Small concession but a thinking Management.

The wider problem is that as a profession, this is one of the few where after long service, should your employer go bust or get involved in ghastly take-overs, you go to the bottom of the pile & have to start over. Senior Captain one day, junior First Officer the next.

I am just coming up for the infamous swan song & am, quite frankly, glad to be out of it. No, want nothing to do with staff travel or indeed even to look at an airport again. Moving in to a nice Villa in the Med & looking forward to joining the Cruise Liner brigade for the odd getaway. Sub-load,security, miserable, envious ground staff..............bye.

Conveniently ignoring the irrelevance of that statement with regard to responsibility for the pension scheme.


Lets try again, just for the pedants:

When Company IA buys Company G, Company IA thereby accepts responsibility for the pension scheme of Company G.

Apparently, the above somehow doesn't apply when Company IAG buys another Company. :rolleyes:

Erwin,

sadly your understanding of business is not all that it might be. The simplistic and somewhat naive model that you seem to believe in is not in any way accurate.

The sale of BMI was conditional on several things, one of which was that IAG would not take on the pension liability for the BMI group and that Lufty would keep this fiscal responsibility. If this condition had not been made BMI would not have been bought and right now they would being wound up. No-one from BMI would have jobs let alone staff travel entitlements. Think BMI baby but for the whole BMI group.

The vile behaviour of Lufty in abandoning it's responsibility to the BMI pensioners is worthy of censure, trying to somehow blame IAG for Lufty's sharp practices is hard to comprehend

JT

There must have been some collusion for this to take place.

If studi is to be half believed, personally I reckon he's just a wind-up merchant, Lufthansa would not have dreamed this one up.

Right until the bitter end memos were coming thick and fast from Management saying the Pension Scheme would be safe-guarded, ring-fenced or whatever you prefer to call it, we were going to be safe.

The bmi pension debacle should worry everyone with a pension in the UK, not just those at bmi. If a solvent company can walk away from it's responsibilities as easily as DLH have done, then no-one's pension is safe.

Hi MP. I do not see evidence of collusion. I do see clear evidence of a cunning plan but no evidence that the cunning plan was shared between the parties. It seems IAG has fulfilled it's side of the deal just that Lufty has wriggled out of its moral and probably legal obligations.

Studi can probably fill us in on the details of how his ethically driven band of brothers will soon force Lufty to do the right thing.

Say again s l o w ly

Yeah, that's exactly the point that Parliament needs to address.

This head in sand, we're alright jack that has prevailed for many years must cease and you can bet your life the politicians have got their pensions stitched up, courtesy of you and me.

We were not allowed to put in more than 15% of our gross pay into our pension fund, that was the law. Companies took pension "hollidays". The rest is history.

It may be too late to help us but remember you could be next if your company becomes the target of a tackeover bid

JT

Collusion is probably the wrong word. I meant to suggest that IAG had intimate knowledge about how the Pension Scheme would be made to disappear from the deal.

If you're shelling out £200+million you'll want to know what the crack is!

I guess we'll just have to disagreeing this one. I am sure all IAG were interested in regarding the pension deal is that they would not be responsible for the debt and that the pension obligation would be born by Lufty. As to Lufty's reprehensible actions why would IAG care? Essentially having secured the deal it was beyond their remit to worry about how Lufty intended to discharge their responsibilities

I go back to the comment I made at the end of my opening post:-

"They don't mind, we don't matter"

And that my friends is what life is all about

Got it in one. DLH is German. The Pension Regulator is British. The latter has no legal powers over the former.

Sh*t happens!! ;)