Bex88
It wont take 35/40 years because any BMI pilot who is around 20 yrs old, and has that career ahead of them, would take the option to join the BA msl list asap and bid off after the intial freeze,
I am sure that regardless of the process agreed there will be some form of Ghost seniority numbers running in paralell so that is possible.

I'm sure they will take the command bridge into account. If a Year 12 FO from BA became a captain they would join Year 12 captains pay scale. If a yr 12 or 13,14,15 year FO from bmi became a captain they would join year 1 captain pay scale.

With this in mind most FO's will do better joining the bottom of the list. I think it's down to the pension!

Red7

I think your suggestion of being able to transfer to the ba MSL at the bottom is a good one and will be the option I would go for. At the moment very little is known other than if the individual is safe or not

Bex/red,

I've been told it will be a one time deal to transfer onto the MSL. May not be true, 'twas a very good source, but definitely worth having a think about.

I (and the BACC) couldn't agree more. The possibility for to have all on one MSL is waning. BA want a legally watertight solution and without agreement between the two CCs the simplest option for them is to maintain two separate pilot groups.


Apparently whether or not the option to voluntarily join the bottom of the BA MSL will be made available is undecided. The theory is that because any BMI pilot electing to join the bottom of the MSL would be doing so voluntarily that any possibility of subsequent legal challenge is negated. If BA management/legal cannot be 100% convinced that this is the case, then they may well decide to not provide the option to transfer at all.

Not a desirable outcome, certainly not what BA pilots wanted, but to be brutally honest, they'd not be much worse off than they are now.

I've heard that there is a deal on offer to prevent redundancies in Bmi, anyone know the details?

Its a mixture of offering unpaid leave and temporary part time to all bmi pilots to reduce the overall "virtual" headcount. If there are not enough takers then up to 6 unpaid days off will allocated to everybody to achieve the same result. Going to a vote but certain to be passed. Nice result which the bmiCC have achieved by working with the BA/IAG management.

The only fly in the ointment is that this only covers the 22 outstation based guys and not the (7?) trainers and all the management pilots, separate discussions are ongoing in their cases.

That is good news if it's true. I hope it does get passed.

The one thing you can be sure of is that BA will have got the numbers wrong and with the arrival of two new types next year I suspect that there will be plenty of work soon enough. The important thing is to get as many as possible through the door at this stage.

I've been listening to the BMI guys on the RT this week and have felt for them with all that has been going on. It's good to see and hear professionals at work. I hope that this period of uncertainty will soon be behind us and allow everyone to look forward to the challenge of integration. I suspect that there will be some more surprises both good and bad, although that is pure speculation on my part, not some insider knowledge.

Anyone who has ever done a course will know that it's best not to do it with any of life's major stressors going on in the background and that professionalism will stand you all in good stead. The BA trainers are good chaps in general but it would be a pity not to show your best because of outside distractions. Not sure how I would stand up to that test at the moment if I were in your shoes and I'm sure that that will be born in mind.

My advice, get in the door, get spat out on line and then worry about what else is going on. In the long run I hope that you all look back and accept that even if wasn't the best thing to happen, being taken over by BA, it wasn't as bad as you thought it was going to be.

Welcome aboard chaps

If this comes to fruition then that really is great news.

Sgt Wilson
 

Nice post - and a bit of good common sense.


Regards
Exeng

SGT Wilson,

I appreciate that.

I know there are a lot of us at Bmi who are apprehensive about joining BA and how we will be received. Most people, myself included just want to come across settle in, do our best and get on with it.

Hopefully 12 months from now it will be all done and dusted and we can try and get on with our lives and look to the future.

Sgt Wilson, What a super heartfelt, understanding post which I'm sure will be appreciated by many. Indeed there are some very serious issues for some to deal with at the moment especially with pensions etc, Again many thanks.

For CAT3C and all our soon to be colleagues,

That is exactly the spirit in which you will be received.

Like the Sgt said, welcome aboard , and I hope that your redundancy/pension woes get sorted in the best and most expeditious manner possible.

We look forward to seeing you all, thank you.

Max angle states: "Going to a vote but certain to be passed". I don`t hold that person`s optimism and arguable false hope. I`m also not sure of the legalities of forcing this on the approx 35% group that aren`t in Balpa. Good luck to all.

No-one has to join BALPA. A majority of BMI pilots are BALPA members. BALPA has collective bargaining rights for BMI.

- UK Government website.

Perhaps this link will help you, Fir Tree?

Some people view those who benefit from collective bargaining by a union (e.g. tax concessions, annual payrise) but do not help to pay for it with a union subscription, as freeloaders, but you will always get that in any society IMHO.

P.S. Could I add my welcome to the BMI guys, looking forward to seeing you!

Sorry fir tree. If you are not a member you don't get a vote. That's the down side to saving the 1%.

I'd be very surprised if BALPA Membership in BMI Mainline wasn't in excess of 90% now.

Saw somewhere else that BMI guys were doing visits at the CRC. The guys I saw looked very smart!!!:)

The vast majority of BA pilots look forward to flying with you guys and doing our best to help you integrate.

Obviously there are 'issues' about which we have very different views, but you will all find BA a great place to work. They are my third aviation employer (incl days wearing a growbag!) and they are a first rate employer!!

Anyone with misgivings after reading some of the garbage printed over the last few months - please take it with a huge pinch of salt. You will be very surprised at the reality that IS flying in BA.

All the best to you new joiners!:ok:

Maybe they got a look at the BA Uniform Guidelines :)

Thanks for the welcoming words

Without knowing what is being tabled for discussion, it's very difficult to offer any advice to our new colleagues, but there are some general principles that we have all entertained in managing our careers so far.

- Get on the BA MSL as soon as possible

- If TUPE means loss of command, but you still are pay protected with grandfather rights - take it!

Everyday I fly with people who are on their way up, across, winding down, swapping seats, going part time, people I've met before, people I've never met, people who were skippers with other airlines, people who used to run squadrons, people who were doctors, people who were city traders, people who used to teach me, people who are running their own businesses outside, lots of different people.

Just be one of us, managing our lifestyles to suit our families and time off to our best advantage. Status is really not the only thing in BA, your lifestyle is.

Welcome aboard, first beer's on me.:ok:

I second what Airbus Unplugged says. Every word.

Looking forward to flying with you. I may even buy a round! :eek:

A warm welcome to the ex-bmi guys and girls-I look forward to flying with you and buying you a beer.

Well all I know is I am very pleased to have this opportunity to keep my job and transfer to BA. It will bring me what I have so desperately been missing.... Security. The finer points of the t&c's are to be thrashed out but to be honest apart from TUPE I am confused. The major concern has been answered and I look forward to flying in BA colours with you guys. Who knows if I can tame the moth in my wallet I may even buy you guys a round. :)

And what of us Regional guys? Seems like Willie can't even be bothered to sell us now and may close us down. I genuinely wish all the mainline bods luck, but can't hide my frustration and sense of hopelessness with the way its panning out for Regional and Baby.

Its nice to read the welcoming messages.

I will tell my Bmi Colleagues they have a lot of beer to drink :ok:.

I hope this bout of 'Hail fellow well met' will be moderated somewhat by reference to the likes of Mungo Man's post

I am ashamed to read the selfish puerile posts regarding back slapping social events when the lifechanging concerns of mungo man appear of litle concern to the BA joiners...good luck to them...but spare a thought for the way in which BA treats a minority and how upsetting this is to be excluded by virtue of being Embraer /737 rated.

I am sure most of us haven't forgotten about them either. Knowing what the BACC is like, they will look at all avenues (creative etc) to help them out as much as they can. However, it is a business decision coming from the top so there isn't a lot any of us can do.

Here is hoping for a buyer....

Flap 80 - well said.

How dare people be happy that their jobs are safe when others may lose theirs.

If we follow that logic we should never ever have a cause for any form of celebration as there is always someone whose livelihood is under threat. I am sure we are all aware of the woes of BMI regional and Baby pilots and wish nothing but the very best for them, indeed we all hope that some white knights come along and save them and their jobs. However to suggest that those fortunate to have a more secure future after a period of, no doubt, great stress and worry is frankly woefully petty.

May I just point out the thread is bmi mainline pilots made redundant. People now come on here and say its wrong that we are happy we have mitigated against these job losses and should not show any relief or positive communication to our new BA colleagues. I would like to point out that no pilot at baby or regional has been declared at risk of redundancy, whilst some at mainline have. We have had a great deal of stress and redundancy hanging over our heads. It is perfectly fair that we communicate our relief. No pilot has been left out because they are on a 737 or a emb 145. These pilots work for different companies which are owned by the same group (IAG) and were never going to be part of the integration to BA. Nobody wants to see anyone loose their jobs and at this point whilst the future of baby and regional is to be decided no pilot at these companies have been told they are at risk and sale options continue to be explored. Attacking mainline pilots is not exactly going to do anyone any good.

Actually no. You are not wanted because the business you work for is not wanted - this is nothing to do with the type you fly. Nor is it anything to do with personal value, it is all to do with the fact that the business for which you work has no value to IAG.

Baby and regional pilots at risk not so long ago? News to me and if so its not due to the IAG purchase. In 09-10 (not so long ago) mainline lost 129 pilots but that is a different topic to this as are the baby and regional ones I believe. I raise attention back to the title of the thread and emphasise that the loss of any job is awful. Optimism would help look at what is in the papers about regional and baby the sales process is still being explored and should be the focus. As for jet snobs I am sorry if you feel there are some but I have respect for you guys and I am very sure that is felt across the pilot workforce

The fact is that if you lose your job that is a tragedy, both personally and for your family and I don't know any pilot, BA or otherwise that does not have immense sympathy for the BMIr and Baby pilots. Indeed, I think we all hope that BA will find a buyer for these businesses but I think most also recognise that this is about business, not personal worth or about how the aircraft you fly affects how your are valued. I think it is smarter and perhaps easier to bear if you recognise this does not reflect badly on the pilots under threat but that it is just business and that sometimes life is a bitch.

bex88,

Simplistic.

I'd hazard a guess some of them have contracts which say otherwise?

Well best of luck to them because they will have to take on a legal case against IAG and the argument for the case is weak at best. A old out of date contract is not worth much and it can be demonstrated an employee has accepted a new role and worked under t&c's of a different company within the group for a considerable period. As said any job loss is tragic and the focus should be on how to move forward not snipe at mainline guys. Lets face it would anyone not want IAG to find jobs for all of the baby and regional pilots. Did the very very limited number of guys who claim to have contracts with british midland get put at risk of redundancy in 2009-10 and if not why did you not stick your hand up and claim to be part of us then?

bex88,

Whose side are you on really?

:E

You might find BALPA is already aware of the situation and indeed independent legal advice is being sought by pilots on the matter?

Actions speak louder than words.

You seem to forget that Regional and baby pilots have been flying for subsidiaries that have allowed Mainline to remain as "solvent" for as long as they have via all kinds of various mechanisms be it slot-filling, alleged inflated sub-leasing costs and ostensibly sequestering forward bookings revenue....

I'd always be first to volunteer to be shot when the opportunity arrives.

:ok:

If an organisation is unable to keep track of which employees are on which contracts, is it the employees job to advise them?

You seem to forget how many years of redundancies the other subsidiaries were exposed to?

I'm super pleased that Mainline pilots are being transferred across to BA.

Its just a shame the solidarity does not extend further....

There are no sides to this. However going back this is about mainline pilots who are at risk of redundancy. Baby and regional pilots have not been issued at risk notices and the sales process continues so what has anyone lost at this point? There are guys who are still at risk so maybe thought and effort could be spared for them.

The BBC is reporting that there may be good news for the guys in Regional!!

The previous deal that appeared to be on the back-burner would hopefully be in the final stages!:ok:

I certainly hope that my pilot colleagues in Regional get good news!!!