Someone's feeling grumpy :rolleyes: Seeing as you mention it, yes I am at the "aspirational stage" - weren't we all once? One day after "years of graft" to fund training maybe I will get a turboprop job and I'm sure I'd be very happy to do so. In the meantime, the Virgin cadet scheme is a fantastic opportunity for me and all the thousands of other wannabe's. I wouldn't prefer a 787 over an Airbus as you suggest. I enquired to re-assure myself that Virgin look after their pilots, that the job I am applying to is secure in any fleet re-structuring. I'm not going to apologise for asking lots of questions, finding out as much about the profession as I can and seeking advice. 100 grand is a lot of money as it is without entering the whole process blind.

Trust me Manutd 1999 by the time your career has reached a stage that you need to worry about whether you are "stuck" on a 330 or whether the chance to move to the 787 is an option you won't care.

By then it is all about money and lifestyle.

Personally I would rather stay on the bus as I like my cheeky Caribbean trips mixed into LHR stuff but more importantly the thought of 3 weeks ground school plus 12 sims plus line training fills me with dread. Too lazy/lifestyle focused to worry about it. One day you will understand where I am coming from, but as someone who started off sweeping the hangar floor and towing gliders I understand your simplistic view on your future career. I was you once. If the fleet manager rings me up tmrw and says "your off on a course next week" then ces't la vie. I think Wireless is coming from the same wavelength.

All the best

Fair enough, maybe a little harsh, apologies. I've trimmed it down. 4engines was on the money.

It won't be a shrinking fleet of A330s if you see how many delta have ;)

The FAA added the 1500 rule. What will the FAA think of low houre MPL's flying transatlantic into their airspace.....

The FAA decided to change the rules, biggest mistake they ever made.
Ab initio pilots who start to fly with KLM always start as second officers on widebodies. Straight out of the KLM flightschool, 250 hrs and flying all over the world, also in US airspace. Has been going on for years, no problems at all.

In Europe some low hour pilots get a chance to start their career on a jet. The training they recieve before their first commercial flight is superb and have you seen any accidents in Europe because of lack of experience? I certainly haven't. I dare to say Europe is the safest place in the world with regard to aviation safety because of the high standard of training ( especially in western Europe )

There seems to be a lot of hate directed at the (potential) cadets here and I'm struggling to understand why. Is it their fault that the best/easiest/only way into the RHS of a decent airline job are the CTC/OAA cadet schemes? Would you do it any differently if you were on here, in their position, reading that it's "impossible" to get a job by working their way up through GA, turboprops etc?
Shooting people like ManUtd1999 down in flames for asking a simple question about progression smacks of jealousy and selfishness. Drop the holier than thou, it isn't as good as it used to be attitude and stop taking it out on people who are trying to get the job of their dreams. This problem is created by the system and the bean counters, not the 21 year-old staring out of the window as the contrails pass by.

Any news on upcoming recruitment?

john_smith wrote

Frankly, this is more of an indictment of john_smith than the industry to which he refers. If he seriously thinks that being a tube driver is a better job than being an airline pilot then he has no business being near an aircraft, not even as a passenger!

I'd say he's associating with the wrong pilots! 90% of the pilots I know love doing their job, they get somewhat cynical about the machinations of management and like to whinge about how much better things used to be, but take great pride in their work and constantly seek improvement and advice.

Yes, done it! Love it! Best investment I ever made. now approaching retirement in the left seat of a big jet with NO regrets but many happy memories, fulfilled in both my job and the relationship with the high quality people I get to work with.

Would I recommend this job to my children?

Yes

Bander, A little smug, are we not? You are not the only one,p to fly a big shiney jet fully of sweaty sardines. No doubt you have enjoyed the fruits of your labor in VS, ie a plentiful supply of those essex types, who should know better.
Hows the marriage ?

I am with Bengerman. I have done other things, but am very fulfilled in my career as an airline pilot and would do it all again. I am 55 and am still happily married to the girl I met when I was 18. If you are desperate to be a pilot, you could never be anything else. And I work for low cost!

I think my job is well paid, rewarding and I quite like my employer.

I know that its not PC to say that but its true!


WWW

The Crew, I'm not smug but I am content!

Marriage, still number 1 and 30+ years and counting is fine and I don't work for VS so you are wrong on every count!

NOW I'm smug!

For once, some happiness on pprune. I stand corrected and wish i had studied harder ... @BA pilot jobs

Questions:

1. What is the latest regarding hiring? Where are newhires coming from these days - Easy, Ryanair, others?

2. How many cadets are on line or in process so far? How many slots will cadets likely take each year?

Crikey Iver, you're still trying to keep this facade up. Thrashing around from thread to thread, offering "expert advice" on anything and everything. How many times have you been called out now?

Is that you Sherlock? How about you answer the questions rather than waste our time? You don't know me or my situation. No doubt many could benefit from the answers.

I guess the cadets will take a huge chunk of the recruitment.

What recruitment? The rumour at the moment is of possible pilot redundancies is it not?

Not trolling....I've been told that directly by people in the potential firing line & I sincerely hope it's not the case.

No it is not happening at all. VS are facing a huge retirement bulge and have an age demographic curve to flatten. Helping to compensate this is a scheme where 12 Cadets a year join for the coming years and I am sure future DEP recruitment. Your friends who are in the 'know' should worry more about the coming consultation on PSA, VS defiantly want a few changes there.

No idea what PSA is but I hope you're right!

I've heard a rumour that BALPA have lost recognition and VS won't honour the existing T's and C's once the union goes :eek:

Any truth?

How do you lose union recognition? :confused:

Apparently the locals have been migrating to an in house start-up Union and BALPA's membership fell below a threshold.

I'm going to bring my little experience of this company ... Everything being equal, with the issues discussed on this thread plus the general downturn in the aviation industry and the necessary 'belt-tightening' across the board, it beggars belief that VS decide it's now time to change the logo (again) incurring mutli-million pound costs.

According to an ex-colleague who's still at The Office, ''it's time'', that the existing logo is ''tired'', and that the market research states Virgin's customers ''want to see a new brand image''.

I left VS seven years ago as a training captain (could see the writing on the wall) and now work in ME, still travelling extensively. I stand to be corrected regarding where VS may have done its research, but believe me, and I speak for the vast majority of SLF: we don't care what the lettering on the plane looks like, what colour the tail is or what shade of pantone red is to be used. We simply want to arrive safely, in a fully maintained aeroplane flown by excellent flight deck, with great ground and in-flight product and pleasant CC.

(FYI, I recall and can understand why my ex-colleague friend has that POV; the internal comms propaganda at VS has to be seen to be believed!)

Perhaps if the directors diverted their attention from their ''extra-curricular'' activities and focussed on the business priorities, then nailing you guys for T's&C's, continually telling the staff to ''tighten belts'', etc. etc. could be avoided?

All the best to you all in these difficult times.
By the way, pay attention to Gulf companies, some are recruiting just now... but why do people leave them ?

Very quite on the Virgin thread as usual.

Does anyone have any real info on likelihood of them recruiting in the near future?

BA need 350 plus guys next year. VS nil. Why oh why would anyone hold out for Virgin?

I tell you why. Because Virgin is actually a good place to work. Everyone loves to bitch and moan about everything but it is a good employer.

750 hours, stable roster, good T's & C's, Private health care, loss of licence, pension, nice people to work with etc...

BA? No thanks - working very hard, 900 hours per year, less pension contribution than Virgin - 12.5% vs 15% (talking about new joiners now), CC relations not great still, command a very long time away.

Not trying to slate BA here as many of my good friends work there but it's not the holy grail it once was and people need to realise that. Still a very good employer indeed, no question about that but people need to open their eyes a bit more.

If you don't like Virgin plenty of jobs in Middle East with EK, EY, QR etc.. Go and work down there and then tell me Virgin isn't a good deal.

ATB :ok:

I too share your concern. I know that there are only two certainties in life (death & paying taxes) but wasn't VS in dire straits only a few years ago after the financial crisis of 2008-2009?

With a next recession possibly on the horizon (the US federal Reserve can't even raise interest rates by 0,25%!), can VS withstand the next big economic downturn?

highfive

I personally could not think of anything worse than flying for BA. Yea theres this and that and flag carrier and blah blah blah......

I would rather go back to Ryanair than end up down south and changing my name to Nigel.


each to there own though.

Guys on here were asking about VS recruitment. There isnt any. BA are recruiting significant amount of crew, & therefore which carrier is showing long term career potential, which is stagnated?

Which airline will stand you in good stead to get a better mortgage, has better take home pay and shorter time to command? Whos kids will go to independant schools?

Stagnation isnt good, in any industry. Im not bothered either way, as i have not the slightest interest in virgin. However , Dickie does get his 2 cents worth out of you guys, for zero annual rise. Thats why i think a pilot hanging on to any potential VS recruitment dream is misguided and should go to BA, or a value carrier .

ps. the VS girls are loverly & bubbly but oh so tick.BA crew are battleships but with much posher accents :}

Highfive, you appear to be full of it.

Virgin is contemplating some recruitment for 2016. I don't know anymore than that, I wasn't paying attention in the meeting since it doesn't affect me.

The only career advice I'd give is to stay out of commercial flying, but if you're in it then there's a lot worse places to be than Virgin. BA also has a lot to offer. Which is better for you is not simple, it does help if you know exactly what you want. One thing seems pretty certain to me, regardless of press rumours - we are a long haul only airline. Can't see that changing even in the unlikely event of us becomming Virgin Atlanta/ Delta East. Better be sure that's right for you. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

Good luck.

Rex

I think anyone trying to decide between BA (which in all probablity means BA shorthaul) and VS is between a rock and a hard place.

Given the way IAG operate and yes, I'm playing Devil's advocate here - can you put your hand on your heart (or head) and tell me BA is going to be around in its present form in ten years time?

Rex

People have been predicting the demise of VS for years as well, but it hasn't happened. A brief troll through this website for the past 15years will highlight all the doomsayers who got it wrong. As a result VS has given many many pilots a well paid and rewarding career, myself included for the past 18 years.

There are not many airlines offering a starting pay of year 1 F/O £69,000 with no training costs, and year 1 Captain pay of £113,000 rising to £86000 and £142,000 respectively through annual incremental pay. Competitive pension, LOL, PHI, staff travel, 750 hours, a (currently) robust scheduling agreement, and lastly a part time scheme that is proving very popular that doesn't require child care to enrol on.

It is not all roses and champagne but let's be honest it's not bad by most sane standards.

Rex

"4 engines" has made my underlying point much better than I did. Many in BA were whittering on about VA's imminent demise when I joined BA over 25 years ago, would quote all sorts of profit/loss figures and then go onto explain what was bound to happen to VA in the next down turn...

For those looking to get a foot in the door with a UK carrier I actually don't think there's much to choose between the two, and VS has it's positive points.

Well time to command is certainly shorter at Virgin than at BA. Especially if it's long haul we are talking about. it's about 10-12 years at VS currently.

Better mortgage? Well having just been granted a new mortgage I can tell you the deals aren't what they used to be. But on my Salary it was no problem and certainly very comparable to BA so not sure about this one?

And as for kids, I don't know any of my Pilot friends from either BA or Virgin or anyone else from other UK airlines for that matter whose kids are going to Private schools based solely on their salary and income. Granted some will but from experience it's normally money that has been inherited or gained from other sources. Not solely income from flying. But that is a sign of what has happened to this industry over many years sadly.

Those commenting on Virgin's future, well how many years have people been saying it won't be around much longer? Yet 31 years later still here. It may become part of Delta, who knows? But I am not dusting off my CV in worry that I no longer have a job in the not too distant future. Time will tell.

Why are people assuming Delta would ever allow its investment in VS (foothold in the lucrative London business travel market) to go bad? It was an outstanding investment for a relatively cheap price. Delta is one of the world's most profitable and cash-rich airlines and would likely continue to fund VS if required. Delta would never have such a foothold again if they allowed the VS investment to sour. Sounds like Delta and VS are collaborating on schedules and better yield management. So, it is probably a bit premature to predict VS's demise.

4E4S - sums it up really. In addition, part-time at VS is probably the best thing that's been offered to the pilot community for some time - don't know of anyone who has accepted a variation of, who isn't smiling!

Delta made $350m profit in Sept 15 alone which has resulted in pay rises and bonuses for it's staff - rightly so.

Whilst VS needs to stand on it's own feet and contibute positively within the terms of the joint venture, it's reassuring to see this clout supporting VS for once. Will things change in VS? - I'm sure they will but not for the foreseeable future altough I am tempted to practice a southern drawl!

Wiggy (ever the voice of reason - that is a compliment!) calls it right. BA are seeking more pilots but you may not be jumping into straight into a LH seat for a while. You might have to burn off some years on SH first. That might suit some but not the majority I feel!

Life's good (at the moment)

CB

Iver. Try telling SQ it was a good deal ? For Sir Dickie , yes. He can buy another island or bank. You , as a pilot, work harder for err how much pay rise?

I never subscribed to the RB way of low pay for a fun lifestyle. Getting hammered on night stops with minimum rest would ruin me. This lifestyle, allegedly is a reason for many crew to join?

A young mans job, or dirty old mans, which allegedly why many middle aged men are still feeling young. All Away from their wives .