VENTUS45

I have to say i agree with most of what you say. Sadly, however, you are directing your comments at VERY egotistical, spineless, eunuchs for that is the demographic that makes up the Pilot community.

You only have to go back a few posts in this thread to see that one guy here trains the candidates that are on a really s**t deal and doesnt really like it but as soon as the prospect of contract pilots affect him, is calling for the strike papers to be sent.

This is why its an absolute disgrace that Pilots blame CEO's and accountants for the demise of their terms and conditions. Its the Pilot community thats to blame. The only thing the CEO's and the number crunchers are guilty of is taking advantage of the naivety, selfishness and utter stupidity of the aforementioned demographic. Sadly its easier to Bitch about stuff like this than to grow a set of gonads and actually do something about it.

There also happens to be difference of opinion as to whether having these (P2f, P4T xyz, bbc, whatever) chumly-warners in the flight deck erodes safety or not. Im firmly of the opinion that it does. Those that are Training Captains training these guys have said that it isnt, but to be honest, a TC is NEVER going to admit that his product is unsafe. If you go to pap2f.com and read the accident reports, you will read that these accidents happened literally in the final seconds of the flight. Too late for the TC to do anything about it. Its generally accepted that an accident is a series of failings that manifest themselves at the same point in time, a chain of events if you will. My feeling is that having these guys in the RHS of airliners is a broken link in that chain. Training a 250 hour chap all day, day in day out, over 2,3,or 4 sectors is less safe than a flight where training isnt conducted. Yes an airline will always have to conduct airborne training sessions but the closer that candidate is to just having had his licence issued, the more dangerous the flight.


I know one guy who has just finished his MCC course and had his frozen ATPL issued and is now in the CTC holding pool, waiting for some one to give him an F/O's job on a shiny jet. When i asked him how much it had cost him already, he said "i dont want to think about that" When i asked him why he doesnt go sniffing around the air taxi operators, or to the turbo prop operators, or what about instructing, parachute dropping, crop spraying, Glider towing, aerial survey companies, what about enquiring into Pilots assistant vacancies on single pilot jets, what about working as a handling agent at an exec jet airport FBO etc etc, he looked at me like i was from mars and told me nothing short of a commercial airliner would do and that he would never consider "selling" himself to an air taxi operator. So when i asked him what he intentions were, he said to go on holiday and wait. He displayed an arrogance that i hope results in him waiting for a VERY long time.

I started a thread on the SLF forum, asking them what they thought of flying on an aircraft with HIGHLY inexperienced Co-Pilots and to be honest, i shouldnt have been surprised by the overall tone...... "if he's qualified, why not?" Ignorance i guess is bliss.

So Ventus45, there you have in a nutshell what the problem is........

P2F =

Egotistical, Spineless Eunuch's (ESE)
the Arrogance of the Inexperienced Newbies (AIN)
the Blissfully Ignorant (BI)

ESE + AIN
------------ = Happy CEO's and Number crunchers
BI

For the mathematically challenged, such as myself, thats;
Egotistical, spineless eunuch's + the arrogance of the inexperienced newbies flying around the blissfully ignorant = Happy CEO's and Number crunchers.

Safety is being eroded.

Companies are making money as a result of it
FTO's are making money as a result of it
Training Captains are making money as a result of it
Terms and conditions are being eroded as a result of it
The travelling public are being treated with contempt as a result of it
We have already had incidents as a result of it
The USA has now mandated minimum experience levels to try and combat it
Sadly we will wait till people are killed to stop it :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Until people admit they are part of the problem, they cannot play any part in the solution...... they just bitch about their terms and conditions being eroded instead!!!!

Perhaps starting a new union with a contemporary sense of community might be the answer? However I think the answer really lies with the indiviudal...its a pity the FTO's dont introduce a sense of responsibility and community at the formulative stage rather than building up nonesense expectations. Clearly its not in their interests.

I think people are forgetting what their current union is for....... its to represent them but currently there is no cause to fight for because you cant get people to agree on what the issues are because some issues affect some and other issues affect others.

What no one seems to want to look at is the profession as a whole. It seems that no one gives a stuff about the profession any longer. Of course the profession has to adapt to modern times, but who is going to define what the profession should be? Who makes the profession what it is? Who is shaping the profession? Who ultimately is taking any responsibility as to how the profession evolves?

Do you want that to be Mr J CRUD and others like him?

or do you want it to be you?

The real cancer here is not so much P2F and the evolution of it, its the total apathy of the people that can bring about change, but choose not to. Those who choose to whinge about it it rather than doing something about it.

Pilots have abdicated their responsibilities to the profession. People love causes and the cause should be to save the profession. To not allow the likes of CRUD to define it. Rather than whining on PPRuNe, write to your CC's. Tell your trusted colleagues you have done so and encourage them to do the same. Take some responsibility and you will feel good about it. People will begin to listen. Trust me..... its how humans work.

Dont waste your time answering me, use that time to articulate your concerns to YOUR union. Give BALPA something to do. Flood them with e-mails and letters if you have to. Its you who pay the subs.....use it. Dont throw it away. Your CC's are there as your local reps. Give them a reason to represent you. Wheels turn slowly but only if you give them a reason to turn.

A great Profession demands Great T's & C's. A S**t Profession equates to S**t T's & C's. Make the profession better and your lives will be better. Its up to you to decide if its something thats worth fighting for. Personally i think it is............ with or without you.

GW

A Real Proffesion(mainly men)
 

As an ex Licensed Aircraft Engineer, I now wonder why an earth I retrained to fly aeroplanes for a living(12 years commercial, now a regional captain) .This so called proffesion has become a sick joke with the minorites and pay to fly given preference(regardless of ability). I am considering going back to a proffesion where competance counts.

ahahah, I have probably more money than these schmucks who pay to fly.
they make me laugh with their 100, 300 or even 500h airbus.

they still dont have a job, no money...

i got the money, and i got jobs, and never paid to work....

have fun in your 320/737 carousel...at the end of the day, even the poor guys in india who work for 0.20$ make more money than these P2F pilots.

aviation is the gangraine of the mind!
"i wana fly, I wana fly" yeah, blah, blah...go play and come back to pay Mister manager for your next 500h, moron!!!!:}.