Slim,

You clearly don't understand at all, do you?

Other CC's have nothing to do with us. So we don't worry or even know about their affairs. So let's just leave them to themselves.

What we have is eJ pilots being mauled by management. Agree? You seem to.

So, we have two options.

Option 1.

No BALPA, and we just get mauled. No way to say "no" to anything. Just spineless acceptance. Know the feeling?

Option 2.

We have a CC who's job it is to represent us. They have legal clout, but under our laws this has to be done under the glue of a union. Now I agree, BALPA are not ideal (a bit pricey, bad history and so on) but they are the organisation that provide that legal glue. So we can now collectively say no, or "if you do this then we do that". Again all subject to Thatcherised UK law, but it's all we have.

So we take Option 2. Now if it is such that we cannot aid a CTC employee because they are not an eJ employee, then that's again not ideal, but not enough for me to declare that Option 1 is better.

Why on earth won't you, or can't you see that?

The vast majority of our pilots can, and I'm sure yours would too were they not terrified into non-action by threats of base closure from your management. :rolleyes:

Sorry, Leo, but I am not qualified to comment. Never touched a drop since 1985. I find alcohol a waste of money - it can cause you to lose your job, friends and ultimately your judgement.

But feel free to spend your money how you like. May I suggest though that you would get more enjoyment from a good hooker, membership of the .. (you get the picture). ;)

Alas, the previous thread on whether easyJet is now worse than Ryanair is coming true before my eyes. I am not yet at liberty to give the exact details, but the latest offering to CTC guys surpasses the darkest acts of Ruinair towards any of their pilots. If ever you doubted the need for a union at easyJet this will change your view. Whoever dreamt up this contract must be living in the same era as Oliver Twist and the Poor House. Put simply, the CTC guys are outside the protection of BALPA and are about to pay a terrible price. We need to get them into the fold very soon indeed to offer them protection from the ghastly excesses of our management. When you are at the top looking down like Leo and his acolyte Slim it all looks very rosy. When you are at the bottom looking up it all looks very different. Some big battles are about to be fought and we simply cannot afford to lose them. As I say, looking at this new CTC contract is like looking into an abyss.

Well Norm, now is the hour and cometh the hour.........let's see if your CC step up to the mark.

When they do nothing again, and BLAPA Head Office do nothing, perhaps the 100%ers will finally realise that there is no unity in the 40 Thieves.

The sad thing is that a good fella like yourself will be tarred with the same brush as the I'm all right Jacks.

Well, shiver my timbers! From the very person who was soooo critical of Astraeus (step forward and take a bow Norman S Fletcher)
Yes, 'from where you sit'- as TC on Airbus! 'You're alright, Jack!' After what you said in the Astraeus thread, and what your 'marvellous' airline is up to now- wash your mouth out! But then, it is fun on an anonymous forum like this to indulge in a bit of anonymous abuse, isn't it?

It's CTC that needs sorting out. And cadets need TELLING that they are selling themselves short and ruining this industry.

P.

"It's CTC that needs sorting out. And cadets need TELLING that they are selling themselves short and ruining this industry"
WRONG!
It's balpa that needs sorting out. This is an industry wide issue which should have been nipped in the bud by balpa members before it got to this stage.

CTC sorting out by a sorted BALPA.
Fine that'll do. Think we're on the same side.

P.

Touch your toes .. bite the pillow.

Shameful what an aviation career has become.

good luck.

This might as well be the best idea since King Canute spread his towel on the beach that one faithful day. That's right, tell the cadets to stop it. Tell them they're fools and they're debasing themselves. Then when you're finished go and find the nearest gale and piss into it.

Since people are coming round to the idea that the similarities between a flying slave galley and Guantanamo Bay aren't necessarily limited to the colour scheme, why not pop one of those brave pills yourselves instead of foisting them upon the blind wretch next to you - by refusing to fly with him?

They might not be in the union but you are. If you accept only to form a crew compliment with those not on these terms, or if the trainers refuse to teach them onto the line, then would that not require that they get put on proper pilot-sanctioned, Balpa-accepted terms and conditions? I think it would, but then of course it would mean the big boys had to grow some rather than telling the most vulnerable to go do the dirty work.

Caudillo

Hell will freeze over before a single BALPA member has the cojones to stand up and do anything you have dared to suggest.

Can anyone explain exactly what is on the table for these cadets?

easyJet pilots are, by a large majority, in BALPA and happy about that. Ryanair pilots seemingly the reverse. Shall we leave that particular blind alley alone now?


The curious thing is that there doesn't seem to be any relenting in the supply of these cadets and these people willing to Self Sponsor Type Rating for a non-permanent job. The market is sending signals that just don't seem to be being received by those entering the industry at the training stage. The schools are pretty full, discounts small and enquiries about average.

Between the credit being squeezed and the now plainly factual paucity of jobs (and plummeting conditions) I did think that by now the lemmings would have stopped pouring over the cliff edge. Not so it seems. :(


WWW

hollingworth
 

Drinks, sandwiches, a selection of beers and wines?

WWW
 

well said.... it's a disgrace.

Well said WWW, but how do we get the message across to the lemmings ?

P

Have you considered perhaps it is you that is not getting the message? The 'lemmings' as you call them, have probably accepted that the rules have apparently changed, and are doing what they feel they must in order to enhance the prospects of a job in their chosen career. For doing so, they are subject to castigation and anonymous abuse here from those who refuse, or cannot afford, to enhance their employment prospects. As such, they are more likely to remain on the dole. It is a reality these days. Not condoning, it's just how it is now.

Rainboe

I worked hard to get into this industry, via the self improver route, 2 years instructing and now work as a skipper for a regional airline. I did not try to fast track myself ahead of others by buying/paying for type ratings. I basically could not afford it.
I now see experienced colleagues being made redundant and not being able to secure another job because cadets on temp contracts and woeful salaries takeing there places The beancounters at the airlines must be rubbing their hands and laughing at the pilot community. What other industry would accept this??? Would a junior doctor be allowed to become a specialist surgeon by buying a qualification. What would the law society say , if trainee lawyers were able to by-pass their articles by financial means?
I care about this industry and would like to think that others would be able to enter it through merit and hard work. I have no problem with people trying to get on in their chosen career but I do take issue with schools churning out cadets with no realistic hope of getting a job, it's not fair to anyone except the beancounters. Rainboe maybe you need to get the message , for the sake of our industry and our colleagues !!!

regards P.

Some facts from the latest outcome of BALPA involvement at Thomson:

"We have worked with the Company to get external opportunities on the table and to put Career Break 2 in place that will allow a pilot to be paid in full up to the end of April even if they need or want to leave before that. We
have also asked the Company to be as flexible as possible when it
comes to last minute roster release and to help facilitate
introductions. Next month 80 Thomson Airways pilots have
interviews and simulator assessments lined up in the UK with Qatar
Airways and around 25 have interviews with Fly Dubai." :D

"We have negotiated with the Company to save at least 19 pilot jobs
in addition to re-opening a further voluntary severance scheme. So
from the Company figure of 156 pilots, (137 FTE), the number of
redundancies has dropped to 137 pilots, (120 FTE), and hopefully
will drop further with VS take up. We have also negotiated to
reduce the number of demoted Captains from 62 down to 20." :D

I could quote more but I think the above is good enough!

I look forward to the response from our resident anti-unionists!:ok:

Things seem to be decided. Both EZY and the CTC management have apparently found a deal....
cadets are now to pay for TR.......30K.
Another 30 000 on the top of the initial 60 000 for a flexi crew job. 6 months in the RHS then 6 months selling teas and coffees.
What a disgrace!