Any rumour from inside the camp yet with regard to the Airbus gig? More Aircraft? More Crew? use of the Hold pool? Command upgrades etc? Or a fleet and crew shuffle and route cuts to release crew and Airframes to run chester. Hope it's positive for all involved.:ok:

Who says they are recruiting anyway?

I suspect they would have to run courses if they got extra airframes anyway Aerofoil. Im sure there are some redundant baby pilots out there with emb ratings though. Get in there guys!

Spoke to a friend at Eastern they are under the impression that a % of Eastern guys are to be taken on by bmi under TUPE

Having experienced management doing what they deem is required over what the crew may think is right, I would imagine no one will know what is going to happen re guys that lost jobs being taken on the emb over guys with existing ratings, and the guys in the pool for regional, some having been there a very long time.

I think there is a distinction between regional and baby or mainline. It is regional as an entity that have won the contract, are they obliged to give the job to a pilot from another part of the bmi group?

My present company do as they please, with no consultation and the crew, always last to know.

I'm not entirely sure of the rules regarding TUPE etc etc. However I always thought it applied to a company taking over another, not to a company winning a contract from another one. Is there a reference to TUPE somewhere?

Anyone got any further info relating to this TUPE situation. Did the current contract with EZE come to an end? Or has it been pulled for operational reasons? Any further word on how the operation is going to be created i.e the rumoured extra Aircraft or a reorg of current Routes,Aircraft and crew to release capacity for the contract. If its extra units, any word spreading about courses, the hold pool, crew relocation etc?:ok:

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Toodle pip......

TUPE has been found to apply to:

• mergers
• sales of a businesses by sale of assets
• a change of licensee or franchisee
• the gift of a business through the execution of a will
• contracting out of services
• changing contractors
• where all or part of a sole trader's business or partnership is sold or otherwise transferred.

I'm pretty sure TUPE will apply to eastern crew already based at Chester. No doubt the devil will be in the detail.

I believe tupe would've applied to the flightline/Scasta contract, had flightline not gone bust, before the contract had been finished.

I can't believe bmir would take on a contract that meant they would have to take on TUPE wokers who would require type ratings. They will just cut routes elsewhere to free up crew. Besisdes, to be fair, if they were forced to TUPE then new workers would still have to pass selection surely.

Contracts like this can be very lucrative, you don't have to sell any tickets, you get paid if the aircraft is full or empty. So anyone bidding to take it over will have factored in the cost of any tupe implications, obtaining extra aircraft etc. Small change really over the life of a 3 or 5 year contract. In situations where tupe applies, but is ignored then you are basically in an employment tribunal dealing with cases of unfair dismissal.

If a Filton to Tolouse service is also included, then more crew will be required to run it than the current Chester-Filton route. Contracts like this are normally quite strict about level of service etc, so a spare aircraft or good engineering cover may have to be in place

Suspect it will end up with a couple of extra aircraft being leased in, some tupe crew from eastern coming across, some seconded crews from other bmir bases, and possibly over time bmir establishing a perm base at one of the locations involved?

Does TUPE really matter??? It only really protects pay not T&Cs, I may be wrong but if Eastern crews go to BMIR would it not mean better pay?

I guess in this situation its either move to another Eastern base or take what BMIR offers assuming they do in order to stay based at home. Good luck to all!

Please forgive my ignorance on the protection of employment laws, but if the previous Airbus contract had finished and bmi regional have won the new contract would TUPE still apply?

No idea if this is the case, just trying to find out.

Can't see Tupe working with flightdeck unless already rated. In addition, if joining regional they would have to have the same contract as the rest of us and then they almost certainly would be sent north. Wiki tupe and I'll think it would come under the exceptions. As for cabin crew that may be a different story.

d and F

So how have eastern run the chester op up to now. Were the chester crews contracrt bound to only opetrate from chester, or did they rotate to other bases when required as with any other company? As EZE have many other bases, why wouldn't these guys be rebased to the likes of Leeds or Newcastle. When they stopped flying the Brussels route out of Southampton the crews didnt sideslip into Flybe, all be it that wasn't under a private contract. Note on PPJN suggests EZE are asking crew to go Part Time to prevent redundancies. In any case if there are extra Aircraft joining the fleet to cover the contract, wouldn't guys be starting the type rating ASAP to meet the July start date. :confused:

Another point under Tupe - Eastern have skippers with a lot less hours than BMIr require.Therefore they would be going in the RHS. But under TUPE would they be expecting to retain their J41 skippers salary?
From the above I'd be surprised if Tupe applied here, there seem to be too many ifs, buts and maybes.

TUPE is there to remove a lot of the ifs, buts, and maybes and is a legal right of the emplyees, but there will still be many grey areas.

info on TUPE in the link below.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf

Silverknapper

Does not apply to Chester based skippers regarding hours, trust me

So how will this work if regional take option B to start the chester operation? What if they do not recieve more units and cut the current schedule to release Aircraft for the Chester operation. The company are not currently recruiting or running courses for their hold pool, so it would appear they have all the crew they require at this time. Therefore the aircraft that move already have crew to operate them. Do these guys get made redundant so that the EZE TUPE crews get a Job???:eek: As mentioned in a post further up the page. When EZE closed Southampton the crew were given the option to move on leave. They have closed their Manchester Crew base also. So as it has been said on PPJN they are currently fishing for guys to go Part Time or people would need to be made redundant. Would this change the TUPE rules etc.:confused:

One of the most important reasons for TUPE is to protect workers when a contract changes hands. Its purpose is to maintain the continuity of employment, terms and conditions so that workers are not disadvantaged when a new company takes over an existing contract. However on closer inspection of the TUPE rules there are "outs" for the new company and the one that may concern pilots is that an employment contract may be varied where the sole or principle reason is an economic, technical or organisational one. In this context "technical" could mean training pilots on a new aircraft type (Berr reads: "...a reason relating to the nature of the eqipment or production processes which the new employer operates (i.e. a technical reason)..."). I know this was of concern to the Flightline guys prior to loosing the IAC contract.

But hasn't the old contract finished and bmi regional have secured the new contract? If this is the case does TUPE still apply??!

Forget Tupe and it looks like no new A/C at the moment, but as ever in aviation the situation is fluid.

D and F :8

Has there been any further progress with the Chester contract? Has it been anounced anywhere by either company? Are these 2 new rumoured ex Flybe units comming or has that been put on the back burner again? Has there been any news from Lufty about the future now that the deal should be sealed.:ok:

Whilst having sympathy with any pilot losing their job in this current climate, I can't see how TUPE would come into the equation here. Regional will almost certainly be using existing units and there will be no shortage of volunteers for a Hawarden base. If no new crews are going to be taken on, I can't see TUPE applying.

When Regional do get round to taking on more pilots I hope they like haggis.

Well just as I said no new aircraft, it seems we have 2 coming to replace 2 going off lease the end of the year. But here is the strange bit. The company say they won't be coming until the last quarter of the year but they are taking responsibility for them earlier so we may see them on the network.

My take is that they don't want to recruit while trying to threaten redundancy if we force them to pay the last year of the pay deal. But they need the extra aircraft for the Airbus gig so.... watch this space I guess.

D and F :8

How do you pronounce 'Hawarden' anyway?!

"Chester":}

I am reliably informed by our cabin crew it is pronounced "hard on".

que much sniggering....;)

Do they have an Approach freq too....

"Hawarden Approach" or "Hard on Approach".......

Jenson:p

Have any crew been approached to move to Chester, July is approaching pretty fast if that is the start month for the contract...... When do the leases end on these two ex LOT units? Would it be a case of using the new units to launch out of Hawarden and then scale down slightly in the winter when the units are returned?:ok:

Woofly It will really depend on mainlines winter emb requirements and also if the lessor will re negotiate more favourable terms IMHO.

D and F :8

Any rumours around the crew rooms of guys looking at leaving for other things, well what there is at this time? Are there many people in pools elsewhere like BA and Easyorange. Any natural wastage ahead with retirements etc.:ok:

Not strictly relevant to bmi, but am led to believe that the Eastern Hawarden crews are to be offered re-base to Liverpool for a new LPL-Aberdeen scheduled operation. TUPE conditions might not apply.

Will it be a Saab or J41? Any further goings on with midland at Chester. Would think plans need to be in place to crack on soon.:ok: Still there has been no word from any company involved with this operation. Is it just still a rumour?

I am told that any agreement for bmi regional to acquire new aircraft to serve Chester (and they definitely have got the contract) has been mired in the wider bmi/Lufthansa take-over as the board isn't in a position to give an agreement for new aircraft. Probability is therefore tending towards existing aircraft and crews being redeployed from scheduled activity although I don't know what that might involve.

Flightrider

New eastern base is Southampton not Liverpool, only stopping there.

I think you will also find that TUPE does apply to flightdeck and cabin crew at Chester, even if this means them been trained up on the Embraer. It all depends if they wish to take it, I can imagine the F/O's will jump at the chance to increase their salary as they have been threatened with job share and part time work just recently

sorry for the swimmers and the guys/girls who want a transfer from ABZ

Is this your opinion or based on fact?

Not my opinion, but fact from the management. And i think he knows all about TUPE as we have been involved with it quite recently

i.e Flightline, Regional Handling at ABZ and going back to BA Citiexpress days remember with the old Jetstream

Wellington Bomber, I feel for those Eastern crews who might be displaced at Chester. But there are many clauses to TUPE which could easily prevent any eastern crews taken onto the junglejet with Regional - if TUPE even applies at all. It is highly unlikely.

JB

Bring on Monaco, I might shave the beard.....

Who ever is taken on to operate acft from Chester, if any people are required at all!!! Would they not need to be on a TR course now to make the July start point. Would it also be true to say that you could not have a base of crew inexperienced on Type? So If TUPE applied, and you need a broad range of experience at the base, crew would need to be moved from other bmir bases to make up the experience. If the company is running with correct numbers then these movers would need to be replaced by the new guys. So the EZE people would probably have to move anyway, most likely to Aberdeen. Where EZE already have a Large base. So Their ability to remain protected with the Chester life style would go out of the window. So in this case why would it be seen as fair to give a place to EZE crew, rather than the guys and gals in the bmir Hold pool, many who have been waiting for a while now. The Contract came to an end for EZE, Bmir won the new one. The crew work for Eastern Airways, Not Bae Systems or Airbus. How would this situation be worked out.

I hope there is bright future ahead for Bmir, The Bmir Hold pool, and the Guys at Easterns Chester base......:ok:

Under TUPE even if bmir agreed they had an undertaking to take these few from Eastern they could dismis them at transfer for an ETO reason or just vary their contract because of that. The reality is they would at least only get the same contract as everybody else meaning a long trot North for them! In addition they could also only pay them the same as they were getting at Eastern as they would not vary the T and C's they already had!

Does anyone know if there is a mobility clause in Eastern pilots current contract again because if they have it's only gonna mean one thing, bagpipes and porridge.

I really hope Eastern keep there guys and keep em busy where they want to live, because being a long way from home makes you a miserable git. Ask my mates and they'll tell ya!!!

D and F :8

As BMIR are not taking over Eastern Airlines there is no legal basis for them having to take on any Eastern staff. They may choose to as an act of goodwill with airbus and eastern, or because it makes the start up easier, but they are not required to. TUPE only applies in mergers and take overs. This is neither. It is a contract that has been won by a different supplier.

Eastern's contract has run out and BMIR have won the new one. In the same way that I chose to shop at Waitrose this week as opposed to Asda. I didn't oblige Waitrose to employ the Asda check out girl who served me the week before. Same rule apples.

It is not a company take over just a change of a contracted supplier. Hopefully Eastern still have work elsewhere for those affected and BMIR will hopefully at least take the local CC even if they can't take the FD.