Ryanair pilot recruitment coming to talk to United Airlines pilots?
 

Hi guys-

Long term lurker, first time poster. I have a question for you all....

As many of you know, things are pretty ugly over here in the U.S. airline industry. Here at United, it looks like we will be laying off somewhere around 900 active line pilots. Our company is trying to mitigate some of the layoffs, and we received a company e-mail today concerning possible pilot job opportunities at Ryanair.

As my companions and I read this e-mail, we're kind of confused. The e-mail basically stated that "a head of Ryanair pilot recruitment" is going to come to talk to any interested United pilot about taking a job at Ryanair, in an attempt (we assume) to possibly allow our furloughees a chance at a job and perhaps attract some current and qualified 737 Captains.

We're a little confused by this potential offer, and perhaps some of you can shed some light on the subject:

1) Why would Ryanair even consider hiring United furloughees or current and qualified United pilots when they know that most or all of these pilots would just simply return to the U.S. during the next economic upswing?

2) Why would Ryanair even consider U.S. pilots at all when the vast majority of us don't have the EU equivalent of the U.S. ATP and probably won't go through the time and expense of obtaining it?

3) Isn't Ryanair shrinking or at the very least not growing much? I thought I read on this forum that Ryanair was suffering a bit under the current economic climate and one would think that therefore wouldn't need to actively recruit pilots?

4) Why would Ryanair even look for pilots in the U.S. at all? The compensation package looks pretty decent and is certainly higher than most found in the U.S. Despite the worldwide "pilot shortage" we keep hearing about in the U.S., one would think that the Ryanair compensation package would at least attract enough qualified European pilots to fill the slots?

Thanks in advance for the input.

1) Ryanair has no union representation. If they can find cheaper contractors than those already working for them they will use them.

2) Once the figures stack up for RYR everything else will follow. I wouldn't anticipate much help with the conversion. Also RYR have a comfortable working relationship with the regulator.

3) They still have a few:bored: aircraft to come from Seattle. It costs them little to be overcrewed with contractors one way or another.

4) There is always a gap between what is promised and what is delivered. In RYR's case their reputation as an employer precedes them which scares many European pilots off.

Having said all that there are clearly hundreds of people very happily employed at Ryanair. Like many things it depends on your own expectations and priorities.

Suggested further reading

sr

follow up questions please....
 

Thanks sr for your response. I am asking these questions on behalf of many of our soon-to-be furloughed pilots, as many of them are about to lose their jobs here at United with little to no prospect of finding a flying job in the U.S., not even at a $20,000/year regional airline.

And I did a cursory search on Ryanair and spent about an hour reading. I also read your link that you gave me but it was 2 years old. Is the information in that link still pretty current?

1) In the e-mail sent to the United pilots who are soon to be furloughed, it linked to the Ryanair payscales on their website. As I mentioned, those payscales are quite a bit higher than what we earn here in the U.S. Are you saying that in the EU those payscales aren't competitive and our furloughees would be undercutting the competition with those payscales?

2) I realize that there are probably a million posts on this topic, but unfortunately I just don't have the time to piece together information from several dozen threads. Could someone tell me, in a nutshell, what a U.S. pilot with an U.S. ATP would have to do in order to work for a European carrier (like Ryanair), as far as certification goes. As a temporary contract pilot, would they have to do anything at all?

3) What advice would you guys give to a United pilot who is about to be furloughed and looking at working for Ryanair for a few years until the industry rights itself in the U.S.?

4) What questions should a United pilot who is about to be furloughed ask the Ryanair pilot recruiter?

5) What is the current lifestyle of a Ryanair contract pilot like?

Please feel free (anyone!) to post your opinion. This recruiter is coming soon and I want to get as much information together for our soon-to-be furloughed guys. PM me if desired.

Thank you for your time.

This paragraph from a recent Ryanair annual report should spell it out...

"The airlines who will survive this period of higher oil prices and industry downturn are those with new cheaper fuel efficient aircraft, lower costs, substantial cash balances, low net debt and management who are ready to exploit downturns to drive costs lower and increase efficiency."

Above are all sound comments.

I have been at Ryanair just over 1 year having come from another UK carrier.

I find them, so far, straight forward to work for. The money as a Ryanair employed capt is excellent at what would be over equivalent $10k US per month.

If you are a contract pilot, I would imagine you would not be able to benefit from the pension scheme, health plan and staff travel, all off which you contribute to anyway.

The things I like are:-

The money
The variety
Rock steady 5/4 roster pattern
New aircraft
Excellent engineering support
Has 130 737-800 on firm order
Has 3 billion euro cash in the bank to help weather any storms
Very aggressive marketing strategies
Feels a very safe place to be.

Incidentally, you can live really anywhere you like and can use Ryanair flights as a free bus service to get to/from work. You only need to show your pass to the ramp agent or captain.

If you do come to Ryanair, then don't be too surprised to fly 900hrs a year and get some practice at non precision, circling etc approaches. All good stuff.

Irishjetdriver-

Thank you for your comments. Why do you think Ryanair is going out of their way to get United pilots? Are they "OK" with guys going to work for them a few years and then leaving?

On the Ryanair website, it says that direct entry Captains can make "up to 130,000 euros/year" and direct entry First Officers can make "up to 80,000 euros/year." Whenever I read an advertisement that includes the words "up to," red flags go up.

If a current and qualified United Captain (737-300, not NG) were to take direct entry employment at Ryanair, what kind of annual income could they expect to earn in the years that are the non-"up-to" years? How about a United First Officer current on the 737-300? What kind of deductions could be expected from that salary for Ryanair required expenses like training, uniform, or whatever else I've been reading about? Would the U.S. pilot be required to foot any other bills?

I realize I could ask the recruiter these questions when he arrives in a few weeks, but I'd like to get the opinions of others as well.

Thanks for your time.

about ryan air and other options....
 

You would need to marry your boyfriend in order to get unrestricted right to live & work in the EEA.

I imagine Ryanair would have various clauses that would cover them should you leave before a certain time, however that would depend on what training/conversion you would require. I never flew any other 737 but I am told the 800 with winglets(entire Ryanair fleet) is a very different beast to handle. Otherwise, it's just another 737 apparently.

The USD figure quoted is what I take home after tax, but may be very slightly less during the winter. I was a DEC and have been in 1yr. If you are under contract then tax is up to you and I believe the salary is in euros. I am a Ryanair employee based in the UK and am paid in GBP.

In general, with Ryanair, you get a job and a plane fitted with a special button which when pressed causes a member of cabin crew to bring you as much hot water as you like. Not much else. You might have to pay for your conversion. You will certainly have to pay your accomodation and food. If you already have a uniform then wear that otherwise they'll sell you one.

This must be really tough times in UA but if times are that rough then FR are as safe as possible and beats unemployment. I guess UA must help in the severance package ? Also you will have the -800 on your licence which can only be a good thing. I think you would find this as different as you could get to UA. I really enjoyed my last company and thought FR would be a bunch of sh**s to work for.......but so far......they're not.

Check your PM

Not to sure about marrying your boyfriend. Norway is NOT a part of the EU (although there citizens are allowed travel unrestricted within the EU). I would check that with the relevant authorities first. Marrying a person from another country is not an automatic right to be granted citizenship.

EU/EEA Citizens

Marriage to an EEA national

Sorry... But I don't think its a good idea asking on a Ryanair topic if they would be willing to invest into a pilot career.

I think you would have a better chance asking a street begger for the time and money! :p

Can you fly for Ryanair based on a FAA licence ?

Do the IAA "convert" it to an Irish licence, or is the JAA [EU] ATPL written exams required for the fATPL ~ CPL/IR , or ATPL issue :confused:

This thread is a serious matter concerning the possible recruitment of experienced pilots being offered employment by Ryanair.

Consequently I have moved it here rather than leave it in a Wannabee forum where thread drift could detract from the original discussions.

HWB

I have heard US accents on RYR callsigns. I'd heard that RYR had recruited a few a couple of years ago. How did they solve the EU work permit issue? They would be hard pushed to show that there was a shortage of suitable EU pilots and without employing non-EU nationals they would suffer ecconomically.

Oyez oyez Easy and others, it can be done!


live 2 fly 2 live

As someone mentioned RYR have a comfortable relationship with the regulator. I wouldnt see licencing as a problem in that case...if you get my drift.
There is a German imposter looking for a job as soon as he is released. Im sure RYR can arrange a validation or something for him as well.:ugh:

I presume you'd prefer some information rather than inane replies about relationships between RYR and the IAA, etc.

My understanding (I don't claim to be definitive or expert) is that there are 2 issues - 1) the right to live and work in the EU, and 2) your licence.

For 1), you need a working visa. If RYR can show to the Department of Enterprise, Trade, and Employment (DETE - Employment Permits Section - nothing to do with the IAA) that they have looked for suitably qualified flightcrew within Europe and cannot meet their needs, they can be issued a visa for you. This would only apply to experienced Captains as there's no way you could make a case for F/Os, and you'd have to wonder how much longer they could argue for Captains in the current environment.

For 2), my understanding is that the IAA (Irish Aviation Authority) will issue a validation on your FAA licence for 12 months, and that it wouldn't be extended longer than that unless you have completed all or part of your JAA exams as agreed with the IAA.

So, you could regularise your licence position with a lot of hard work combined with the hard flying you would do with RYR. In theory, you could also apply for Irish citizenship after working here for 5 years, but in practice it would be very difficult and take considerably longer.

I suspect there's a quite high turnover of the non-JAA / non-right to live and work Captains in RYR as most will do a year and then leave, but I'm sure some of your colleagues have done it already and some Mesaba guys went to Cityjet on the RJs, so you need to poke around and find someone who has done it to give you the complete picture.

Incidentally, since you would theoretically have a work visa and be registered here, I would suspect that you would have to pay full Irish tax but you could then offset it against your US tax, and do not be fobbed off by any "talk to Brookfield" BS from an RYR recruiter.

Overall, it would be a different and potentially attractive option in comparison with where you could end up elsewhere on contract, but you need to be very realistic about who you are dealing with, there will be no union or wriggle room on terms and conditions, and you're going to have to suck up some stuff you won't like including rosters completely unsuitable for commuting or getting home much.

I hope this helps, and your guys find work.

Waterfalls

You say the money at Ryanair looks better than at UA.

Remeber the cost of living is way higher in Europe than the US, at current exchange rates everything over here costs about twice as much over here than in the States. eg Gas $10 a gallon, Levi jeans £60 or $120, the list is endless. A half decent 3 bedroom house will be in the region of £250-300,000 or $5-600,000, which would be not the standard of a house in the US costing $250,000.

Yes, on paper the money will be better but it is a false economy as the money won't go as far as it does in US.

Don't know the base for the source. But have you seen the "Ryanair Laying Off 600" thread in this forum?

Gas is twice as much but cars are 2 times more fuel efficient in Europe, food you buy in the supermarket is about the same price, only real estate makes a real difference.
In America, people need to pay their own health insurance and pensions and wages are about half of what you get in Europe.

Minimum wage in Europe is around 2300$/month after tax, in the US it is 1100$ before tax and health insurance & social security.

The life standards in Europe are alot higher than in the U.S. thanks to higher wages.

Save in Europe, spend in the US.

Working visa is not an issue, not for F/O's, not for Captains.
Ryanair is recruiting unexperienced F/O's and may argument that they need experienced F/O's instead.

Ryanair is not recruiting US pilots to loose them in a couple of years. When the US markets comes online again, Ryanair will keep pilots interested with their planned transatlantic operation.

Will Ryanair Order Boeing 787s? — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

For a job that pays more than 60,000 euros you don't need to prove you've looked for any EU citizens. There is a place on the form for an explanation of how, in the future, you will be able to recruit EU citizens. I would imagine hiring all those low time FO's and training them would cover that criteria.

The IAA will validate the license for a 12 month period. After that, they will validate it for an additional 12 month period. How long they are willing to do this is anyone's guess.

The 14 exams are a pain in the rear, but are doable. I did mine in 3.5 months from picking up the first book to passing the last exam. In the end you do an LPC with some raw data work tossed in. If successful you will be the proud owner of an Irish ATPL.

Two years on an Irish Green Card gives you the right to Long Term Residency in Ireland. Sadly, they are currently proccessing applications from August 2005. In the mean time you can keep getting your Green Card renewed. Citizenship takes 5 years to qualify for. I don't know what the wait time is on that.

Ireland won't recognize your U.S. drivers license. You can go to AAA and get an International Drivers license to accompany your US license. This is good for 12 months.

I've talked to a good number of Direct Entry Captains at Ryanair. All say the same thing. Keep your head down, your mouth shut, come in and do your job and life is good. If you want to change things, life will not be pleasant.

It's definately an eye opening experience leaving the States to live over here. I was more than a bit nervous when I quit my job in the States to come over, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. All in all it's been a great experience.

That's about all I can think of off hand. Any specific questions PM me.

Thank you Bear 11 for that detailed reply. The more posts like yours I read, the longer my question list becomes for the recruiter :)

All excellent points, smith, about the cost of living. My understanding is that we would be paid in Pounds or Euros, but something else for all of us attending this recruitment seminar to consider.

AvEnthusiast-

I have seen that thread! Which is why I started asking questions on this thread!

acebaxter-

Thanks for that information. I was wondering about the whole ATPL thing as well. I will probably take you (and the others who offered) up on your PM offer after this recruiter arrives.

All through acebaxter.......Thanks for your responses. If you have anything to add, please do!

the reason i said that was coz one of the guys said that this post was for experienced only and i thought that this was to help everyone who are any sort of pilots:)

Good man with the definitive skinny Ace, that's what pprune should be all about. Incidentally, there are similar delays with citizenship, and you'd want a solid address here and not to disappear out of the country for any long periods during the 5+ years, it's not an easy thing to do.

It just occurred to me waterfalls, you should be able to avoid Brookfield as any visa would be offered directly to the employer here rather than through an agency. If that's the case, I assume it would be a fully taxed payroll.

Why do Ryanair want US pilots.
well:
1 you are well trained. (less work for FR)
2 you ave high experience levels. (less work for FR)
3 they have empty left-seats, which you can fill with a minimum of fuss. (less work for FR)
4 the validation is not really an issue if you are only here for a few years... (it appears)
5 while they will be parking aircraft this winter, they will still be flying more than they did last year.


On the subject of flying:
A funny thing most of the yanks say when they come Ryanair: I never knew flying could be that complicated.... The SOP are quite strict... however the day to day flying is just that: day to day flying...


On the subject of Ryanair:
Ryanair will pay you Ryanair-money to fly Ryanair-airplanes the Ryanair way...
do not give them anything, they wont give you anything...

Pay:
They will pay you approx $10.000 after tax-
or what your deal with Brookfield and the tax man works out to...(more in good times and crap in bad times). For that money you and your family can live on the beach in Spain, or you can live in a small room and send home $9000 to the family...

And it appears to me that most of the yanks are very well liked in the company... no bad feelings about you guys coming over here at all.

best of luck...

Thanks plain-plane.

For you and the rest in the forum, most of the negative stuff I seem to be reading about Ryanair has to do with its CEO and the fact that it is very anti-union. We're obviously very unionized here at UAL, and I was wondering what the Ryanair pilots do concerning the frequent (or at least more than here in the U.S.) strikes I read about. Does Ryanair typically force its pilots and staff to cross other airlines' picket lines or fly what we call "struck work?" That's a big "no-no" out here and I was wondering how that is handled at Ryanair and/or how that has been handled in the past. I imagine that since it seems like many pilots don't stick around at Ryanair, there would be concern about ending up on a desired unionized carrier's "short list" if you know what I mean....

the way i see it FR only does it own flying...

And we have not really seen big strikes here in Europe like those of the "old days" in the states...
The way the FR is right now i cannot see that being a problem.

There does not appear to have been a problem for the pilots who have left FR to join their home national airlines, or the likes of VS and BA, that they have worked here. I know that a lot of the french speakers have a "date" booked with airfrance over the coming months... so no problem there either...

Just look at FR as SWA with an edge and none that: "the employees been our number 1 concern" stuff...

they will pay you on time, and the job appears to be one of the more secure ones right now...

I'm an American. I've been here 3 years as a Direct Entry Captain. Was previously furloughed by a major US carrier. My furlough is over, and I now remain here at Ryanair by choice, having bypassed recall. While no company is perfect, I can say the following:

1) Ryanair has always paid me on time.

2) The training/checking are very fair and to a very high standard. No B.S. here.

3) The job is simple and enjoyable - you're home every night and the work is productive.

4) The aircraft are new and very well maintained.

5) The working environment at the small bases is excellent - very much like a flying club.

6) For a period of years, I flew longhaul on the 767 and 747. I don't miss it one bit.

I'd highly recommend the job. PM me if you want more info.

extwa,
Hve you completed the Jar licence then?

Thanks plain-plane

Ex-TWA-

Check your PM's please!

Yes, I did convert the license. UK/JAR ATPL. 14 exams. Not fun, but do-able in 3-4 months. But you'll get an IAA validation on your FAA license in the meantime.