Ryanair - The initial outlay
 

Hi,

I've recently been offered a place on the said airline's type rating scheme. Basically i know you pay for everything but what exactly is everything and the cost, ie uniform, id, parking, insurance etc....

Maybe someone who has just joined within the last year can shed some light with costs?

Cheers,

Kempus

Congrats on your offer. I hope it works out.

AFAIK you pay for EVERYTHING

TR, accommodation, food, transport, flights, uniform, ID, parking permit back in Dublin,

23k GBP did it with no problem for me, did not stop enjoying myself either, so you could do it for less..

YYZ

Don't forget £2.00 for the swimming pool when you do your induction SEP.
Oh and 40p for the car park! :O This from a buddy who just joined.

Well, if £2.40 is going to stop you, don't do it!

Flights are free on the FR network if you jumpseat in uniform. Deatils on crewdock or from your BC.

We all already know you pay for everything, therefore £2.40 should not really be an issue? As said, 23k will see you through it, and possibly leave you enough to go to the pool twice:}

YYZ

28,000 Euro for TR. Plus accom in Amsterdam. I paid 450 Euro (per month) for a nice three bed flat about twenty mins from CAE. Plus food etc.

Once you start they will send you anywhere for your line training. Positioning flights are free hotels and food are not. Expect to allow a grand or so for accom & food whilst line training. You'll earn about £600 net pm.

Once line trained Brookfield contract most likely Dub or Stn but some guys do get other bases that they ask for. 55 Euro per rostered block hour.

I've got no real complaints (wait for the abuse). I'd still be instructing for £10 ph on PA-28's if I'd listened to half the stuff I read on here....

Don't forget the leaving fees when you want to leave too guys. All new entry F/Os are emplyed by Brookfield, a so called Pilots agency. You also have to pay a leaving fee/Exit fee of 2500 I am led to belive when you hand in your notice.

Having read the above no wonder the industry is on its arse. You might as well be in a whorehouse. Oh wait a minute you already are but with a twist you pay to f23k yourselves with a fancy little ego jet to take you're mind of it.:E And a nasty little pikey laughing all the way to the bank.:ok:

Nuff Said.... DONT F@CKING PAY TO FLY...... They should pay YOU.

These are the guys who are causing the deplorable drop in terms and conditions! I suspect that if they were any good the company would pay them to fly and not the other way around. Prostitution is illegal in many countries! :=

That's why they send you to Amsterdam for your type rating :}

Listen guys I totally agree the T&Cs are rubbish but I'd paid £60k+ at the pointfor my licence and I was earning sod all to instruct (which cost me £6200 to get the rating). Nobody else had even given me an interview..

What do you do? I was at the point of going back to my old job and forgetting it.

Re paying to leave. Yes if you leave in the first 12 months.

Ah yes, sorry I forgot because I had a previous job and I had to pay for my own type rating that makes me a complete idiot who can't think for himself....

"The new 21st century Cadet is someone who has been a truck driver, plumber, sparky etc and then one day decide they want to be a pilot."

Well I fit into the first part of this comment, but I have always wanted to be an airline pilot and have used hard earned money to pay for training; working two jobs to save money for most of my teen years. The ones not complaining are actually to new boys who have always wanted to fly and are happy with the pay and love the flying.

I'm not having a go but I do think that some people on here need to have respect for us. I have respect for the experienced pilots on here, you guys were my heros when I was young! But it's sad that you actually seem be a moaning bunch. Hope I'm wrong..

No doubt I'll get a mouthful from someone in a minute

Times have changed and it was long before I joined FR, yes it would be great if we could step back to days gone by, be nice if I could leave my front door unlocked too, but it's not going to happen.

I don't like the way the industry has turned but it's happened...

The proliferation of self-funded TRs is damaging pilots' Ts and Cs - anyone who cannot/will not accept that is myopic/delusional to be brutally honest - and to be fair it's a brutal dog eat dog profession, particularly at the outset, when you are doing literally everything in your power to get that all important first commercial job. I know, I was in that position - happily I didn't pay for a TR - I couldn't have afforded one anyway.
It's easy once you are on the inside of the tent p*****g out (rather than the reverse - L B Johnson) to become sanctimonious, judgemental and scornful of the lengths to which some people will go to ' follow the dream ' !!
On the other hand, wannabees who fail to accept that their actions are contributing directly to the erosion of pilots' Ts & Cs are even more annoying.

Ryanair will charge you for everything.

http://newsbiscuit.com/article/ryana...al-baggage-200

Don't work for the feckers!

Only you (through BALPA/IALPA) can fix this mess
 

Don't paying for type ratings. You're f*cking up the industry, ya da ya da ya da.....Who's to blame for this mess???

It's you foolish fully fledged pilots yourself and not the cadets!

Think about it, the cadet, being as uninitiated as a space bound rat is destined to get abused along the way to him achieving his/her dream. You smart arsed Captains and Senior FO's clap-trap on about how cadets should'nt be paying for this and that but you seldom realise only your actions and threats can do anything about it. Since YOU are the on-line workforce, the unions work for YOU.

Let me give you an example of how this abuse is controlled within the railway industry. There's no shortage of people wanting to train as train drivers either. It costs well over £30k to train an intercity high speed train driver, but you don't see firms offering train type ratings and line training joy rides with the promise of some kind job offer. Why? because the industry is regulated and the unions, upon learning about any such notion, would cripple this country.

Home come BALPA and it's members havn't got the same balls? :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Cracking point of view superpilot.

Balpa need to be tackling this issue. I was lucky, having not paid for a TR, but I know many who have and many who will. They want to fly, have the licence and the ability, yet the only way that so many of them can do it is by shelling out another wodge.

Many don't have the ability, but money talks.

As airlines realise more and more what a great cost-cutting exercise this is, then we will watch our Ts&Cs go down the swanney.

It is Balpa, and it's members, that should be screaming from the rooftops about this. It has implications on so many areas, safety (ability?), fatigue, Ts & Cs even perhaps CRM.

Selection should be done on merit, not money. Think about where Ts&Cs might be in 15 years because of it.

Well i wasn't really hoping for a lets slag FR and all those that pay for type rating debate. I'm just trying to get that first job which has been offered by FR.

Now,

Type Rating : £23,000ish
Accom: £2000
Disclosure: £60
ID: £100
Uniform: £300
Insurance: £150
SEP: £2.40
IAA license: £200

These are what i think are the extra's! If wrong can anyone correct me!

Cheers,

Kempus

I'm sorry, but speaqking as a mere ATCO, I can't understand what the problem is with people paying for their own flying training. How many airlines now provide full cadet sponsorship? And of those that do, how many places do they offer each year? And I wonder how many people apply for positions when they're advertised?

The pilots complaining on here about people 'prostituting' themselves must be living in a molly coddled dreamworld! I think it takes balls to take that step by putting yourself thousands upon thousands of pounds in debt to chase a dream. I know if I'd done the same thing, I'd take pretty much any job that was offered to me at the end of it!:ugh::ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad:

It's not so much about the initial training to get your license (CPL with ATPL credit), that of course is up to the individual if he wants to take the chance.

It is more about paying for your type rating after the company has allready decided that they want you, they just dont want to pay for the training you need to work for them.

Translated in the ATC world everyone had to pay for the initial training, thats his personal thing, but now they require you to pay for your on the job training as well.

Let me give you an example of how this abuse is controlled within the railway industry. There's no shortage of people wanting to train as train drivers either. It costs well over £30k to train an intercity high speed train driver, but you don't see firms offering train type ratings and line training joy rides with the promise of some kind job offer. Why? because the industry is regulated and the unions, upon learning about any such notion, would cripple this country.


As an instructor for train drivers the rot has started to creep in. Potential trainees are paying for the psychometric tests that every driver is required to pass, before they apply to companies. It is nowhere near the amount for a TR but the companies lap it up by claiming it shows commitment. It probably saves them a few hundred quid for each applicant who reaches that stage.

The true costs of training a driver ab initio are closer to £100k when salary and all costs are factored in.

Me, I'll stick with the PPL and enjoy it.

:ok:

00severn

So where did you get the money from to train? For your living expenses or for the 2 pints that put you into an arrogant tirade?

Was it mummy and daddy?
Did they pay?

Or were you lucky enough to get a sponsorship?
Because daddy knows somebody?

Well listern here pal these people who were plumbers and electricians, would be alot better off not having to pay for their course and study part time to eventually get to that position.

How do I know? I have been there. Before that I was an Army Officer, am I lowering the standards? Think again.

There may be a lowering of Ts and Cs, however it is not the fault of the new entry pilots (and I would suggest cadet is saved for the sponsored and intergrated students). These chaps are taking the nonsense from people like Ryanair, working hard and gaining the experience. Then moving on with the natural progression and into better paid jobs. Is that difficult to understand?

They are taking the breaks when they find them.

OOsevern,

You sanctimonious b@stard. What's wrong with a plumber or an electrician becoming an airline pilot? I'd much rather have a colleague alongside me who knows a thing or two about sacrifice and hard work than a jumped up tw@t like you.

As for the paying for the TR issue. Well, quite simply, it's those who are within the industry, and have been for some time, who are to blame for the degradation of T's and C's. If experienced airline pilots with a good few years service had taken a stand against this issue when it first reared it's ugly head, young cadets coming through the system would not be getting raped today. And T's and C's wouldn't be falling down the pan either.

Take a good long hard look in the mirror pal because that's where the rot started. Or are you so far up your own @rse that you just fail to see it.

Becoming an airline pilot these days, for someone who wasn't born into money, is probably the most difficult career choice to make. Aside from the aquisition of the CPL/IR there is also the huge expense attached to it and the subsequent risk. Guys nowadays are spending upwards of 100K to get trained so the additional outlay of 23K for a type rating to GUARANTEE that first job is now an expenditure that has to be seriously considered.

Before that I was an Army Officer, am I lowering the standards?

As an ex Royal Navy NCO. I would say yes.

:}:}

As an ex Royal Air Force NCO, I would say "yes" too!
(Only joking, the British Army are the best in the world)
lsh

Bonernow
Thanks for backing me up there.
How can people not even in the industry be blamed for lowering Ts and Cs.
The more that people realise that Ryanair is run as a business then the sooner they will use it for what it is...a stepping stone.

Ish and SOTV
Stand still the centre rank...

But guys, the argument is that if Ryanair do it, soon others will follow suit (if it isn't happening already). Ryanair are a force to be reckoned with, they will set trends. Soon you will be calling every other airline in Europe a stepping stone!

Guys - you make a valid point wrt BALPA not doing enough to oppose self-sponsored TRs - I'm with you all the way on that..........

However, to suggest that in accepting the TRAINING COST of the TR that the EMPLOYER should be paying for in the first place, you are not contributing to the problem is, well, forgive me, ludicrous!!! Flak suit donned..

Apologies for thread creep - will make try to make no further posts on this thread.

The ones who did the most damage to T&C's were those that retired at 55yrs with fat pension and took a DEC position elsewhere. This diluted the conditions of everyone below them. I don't notice anyone suggesting they should just stay at home for the sake of the industry.

Age legislation might have changed all that now. Perhaps the demand will improve things for those wanting to get a foot on the bottom rung.

Flyin' Tom.....

You have lost the plot matey.. Or just started flying.. Or probably even both... These retirees who sticj around for a bit are NOT part of the problem..

People who pay for their rating AND take a crap salary are....

When you analyse the Low Cost model, you realise that the costs of the tickets aren't necessarily lower (unelss you get one of the first few discounted tickets on that flight), it's the overheads which are lower. As pilots we are overheads. The company's profits increase as their overheads reduce, but RYR have taken it one step further. Making money out of their employees as well as their passengers! Leo Hairy Camel, sorry - Michael O'Leary has had it good for the last few years since 9/11. He has been employing regualrly while others haven't and his profts have soared - partly due to getting people to pay him to employ them.

However, things are changing. There are a lot more jobs around and pilots are a dwindling resource. In some parts of the world the shortages are having big effects. My (and dragon 501's) company had 2000 Cvs on file two years ago. Now they can't even get people to turn up to the interviews! If RYR keep their policy of getting people to pay, then more and more the company will be a stepping stone - with considerably shorter steps.

Michael O'Leary has done more to harm our profession than anyone in this industry. The tide is turning, let's hope the damage isn't pernament.

DW you got it in one! As for Flying Rat I think the moniker says all that needs to be said

Another quote from 00seven on a different thread:

Do we have an icon that makes the wa**er sign?

(Posted Yesterday 17:56) Michael O'Leary has done more to harm our profession than anyone in this industry. The tide is turning, let's hope the damage isn't pernament.

Before MOL came along with the pay to play scheme, there was and still is Tom Cooper from Gulfstream Airlines a Continental Regional. Students from Europe flocked to his school with a bunch of Euros to train from the Cessnas up to the Beech 1900s.

Then Henry George from Simcenter of MIA came along. His program which cost $33,000 gave 250 hour pilot the opportunity to acquire a Flight Engineer Turbo-jet certificate. The individual would sit at the F/E's panel on the B-727 for six months. Then the individual would return to the training center to upgrade to the right seat and fly 200 hours as a first.

Lets not forget the Comair Academy either... as they are a part of the pay to play scheme too.

any NetJets pilots ?
 

hello guys, i would like to know more about NetJets inside...i have had a look on their website, and everything looks so nice their, is it real ?

thanks

There's a very informative thread on Ryanair Cadet contracts/Ts & Cs on the 2nd of the 2 wannabee threads - sobering stuff indeed and I am v thankful that I didn't go down that particular route................ :(