Just wanted to say thanks for all the people that have contributed positively to this discussion.
I'm fresh out of OAT, with an interview with Ryanair this week - so am keen to hear as much about the company as possible.
I'm married, with a 3 year old daughter and another due in April - so share the sentiment previously mentioned about not wanting long haul, not wanting to be away from family for days at a time.

I'd be interested to hear from the guys who do have things to say about Ryanair that they don't want to air in open forum.

Many thanks

Hey guys,

I passed selection recently and have been offered a place on a 'Ryanair Training Course'. I have received my 'fixed-term training contract' as a .pdf via email. The contract clearly outlines my responsibilities and liabilities.

Section 3 Highlights the 'term'. It states that the contract will terminate 6 months from completion of base check. For this period I will be on E15,000 pa gross. (=£749 pm net).

Some guys have said that Line Training can be completed as early as 6 weeks from the base check. The presentation at the open day informed us that after successful completion of line training, cadets are offered the standard contracts (most likely Brookfield). I have heard some FR pilots say this as well.

Can any peeps who have completed line training recently confirm this?
If so was your contract also titled as a 'fixed-term training contract' ?

Its just bugging me a little that I may finish my line training after say 2 months, I'm then released to fly the line fully without a training captain but I am retained on the low take home for another 4 months. (That would be a bit of a p*ss take).

Can any peeps who have recently started on standard Brookfield contracts also offer any advice on how they are managing themselves as sole traders/limited companies, offering any general pointers on how this works in relation to the agency?

Please pm if you wish.

Many thanks.. :ok:

As we all know, you cannot guarantee the take home figure will be the same month on month in FR. Before I left the company I sat on my ass for two months surviving on my basic pay of £1700 which was tough, is this still going on? As far as the benefits go with legacy airlines all well and good but there is no way I will be relying on the super annuation to get me through in later life, hopefully make the money on housing allowance etc. This I suppose is the benefit of ryr, quick command invest wisely then get out of the company as soon as possible.

me too sausage - I calculated my work related expenses and it was only a weeks flying.

Dry cleaning? Do some companies pay for your clothes to be cleaned?

I get a delicious/appropriate meal every day better than 'orrible crew food. I am home every night, I get absolutely no hassle what-so-ever from crewing etc and I get between £4k and £4.5k a month net.

I paid for my rating many years ago when it was a lot cheaper but look where I am now - not sitting on the bench.

Anybody would be a fool to turn down an opportunity on principle.

sausagefingers

I took home £3750 last month after my pension contribution, for an 85 hour month. Plus allowances downroute. On top of that nearly £1000 went into my Virgin pension.

I have more than one property too. That's not the discussion topic here you know. Who, as a pilot ,doesn't own more than their primary residence now? It's nothing special, so get over it. House prices can go down too..... I am acutely aware of that currently.

As a new dad I quite enjoy my 16 average DAYS OFF per month thanks on my "random" roster".

I am not trying to turn this into a mine is bigger than yours argument..... I merely was alluding to the fact that people like you think you are better off than you are. You could earn so much more than you do if you all stood up against O'leary.

I am glad you earned £4500 last month. Please tell everyone how much you will earn in January or February when the sector pay cheques dry up? About half that maybe?

Chalk and Cheese maybe, but why not accept that you should be aiming for better terms and conditions? Surely that has to be the aim doesn't it?

At the end of the day its up to you what you are happy with. I spent over 12 years with them and i was very glad to get out. Alot of people who post here like myself remember the good old days when it was a nice place to work before MOL went nuts and turned it into what it is today. People have asked what it is like to work there now and we have posted why we think it is not a nice place to work. I know guys who are living on £600 a month which is a disgrace. New fancy airplanes or not, people are leaving very quickly and that is one of the reasons that routes are being cut and 7 aircraft grounded for the winter. I really enjoy my new company and i am very glad i gained great experience and met some great folk but it is not an airline that i would look at long term. You are only as good to them for as long as it suites them. If you refuse to do anything for them no matter how many times you have gone out of you way to help them , they will be after you. When you hand in your notice they will make you give them 3 months notices and they will not fly you because as i was told by a base captain that they will leave you on standby so you dont get any sector pay. Now if thats the way they treat people you can see why alot of us here have no time for them. If anything happens to you on line and you make a mistake you are on your own. It has been proved many time overs. I hope most of you who join get what you want out of them and move on but remember when asked what we think we will tell why its a nasty company because of what we have seen over many years and not just what we have read here.

Good luck

:D

So let me get this right, as a long time FR pilot, I tell it like it is and this, to some wannabe who doesn't like what I'm saying, make me a jerk!

Stansdead is the only person talking any sense on this thread. It's the likes of all these wannabes, not even in FR, who think they are being well rewarded, that is screwing this profession.
All this rubbish, I earn this at FR vs that elsewhere. Yeah, but you don't pay for your rating elsewhere and you have a pension, sick pay, loss of licence etc etc etc. In your astonishing arrogance, do you all think you'll never get sick, never risk loosing your licence and never retire??
All told, the FR package is the lowest of a jet pilot in Western Europe. Sorry to rain on your parade boys. Anyway, you better get used to disappointment as it awaits you at every turn in ryanair.

Nail on the head. That said, it's not chalk and cheese either. Fr affects all. If you're perpared to work for $hit in fr, all anyone else needs do is pitch slightly above that, $hit + 1 if you like. You're cutting your own throats and everyone elses.

Sits back to wait for Bongles "expert and experienced" riposte.

I am glad you earned £4500 last month. Please tell everyone how much you will earn in January or February when the sector pay cheques dry up? About half that maybe?

As a RYR UK FO my take home is fairly consistant at around £2800 but as said above you get nothing else and pay for everything. In my view its not to bad and compares with alot of UK airlines but lags miles behind the likes of Easy when all the extras are added.

Oh so true CamelHair..! The lowest common denominator drives the market..

I've seen this in other countries too... hate to say it but this happened a while ago across the pond with certain sectors of the industry - guys prepared to pay to work, one operator with crap t&c's - suddenly presto! all the other operators know they can also start to dilute t&c's, save money where they never previously could and we all bend over...

So now you have a whole new market developing - TRTO's cutting back a slice to the airline for the SSTR, airlines saving big time and all of us getting royally b*ggered...so much for unity!

Forgive me for once more trying to get this thread on track - perhaps a mod could step in and tidy up some of the scrum that seems to be overflowing.

I, like Diamond_Dog, am also interested in what sort of tax/Ltd company arrangements people at Brookfield/RYR have. if you don't want to trawl through this, then please feel free to PM me.

Horgy

Stansdead check your pm's thanks :ok:

Hey guys,

I passed selection recently and have been offered a place on a 'Ryanair Training Course'. I have received my 'fixed-term training contract' as a .pdf via email. The contract clearly outlines my responsibilities and liabilities.

Section 3 Highlights the 'term'. It states that the contract will terminate 6 months from completion of base check. For this period I will be on E15,000 pa gross. (=£749 pm net).

Some guys have said that Line Training can be completed as early as 6 weeks from the base check. The presentation at the open day informed us that after successful completion of line training, cadets are offered the standard contracts (most likely Brookfield). I have heard some FR pilots say this as well.

Can any peeps who have completed line training recently confirm this?
If so was your contract also titled as a 'fixed-term training contract' ?

Its just bugging me a little that I may finish my line training after say 2 months, I'm then released to fly the line fully without a training captain but I am retained on the low take home for another 4 months. (That would be a bit of a p*ss take).

Can any peeps who have recently started on standard Brookfield contracts also offer any advice on how they are managing themselves as sole traders/limited companies, offering any general pointers on how this works in relation to the agency?

Please pm if you wish.

Many thanks.. :ok:

Sorry to post this again. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't in invisible ink the first time round. Pressman, thanks for focusing on what I was trying to say.. Can anyone else shed light specifically on what I was asking.

Cheers..

camelhair you are a jerk, get the point! people like myself are trying to say that it's a great place to start, then move on. answer me this: what other airlines take on low houred pilots who can then gain 2500 jet hours in a few years? if it's so bad and other airlines are so much better, then why are you there?!

I think the point is more that places like RYR are changing the dynamic of the pilot employment market. If other companies follow suit, apart from a dilution of t&c's from what they used to be (which has been a progressive but direct result of low houred guys desperate for work submitting to such conditions) its going to be a case of "those who can afford to fly will" Ultimately the market is being commanded by your ability to spend, not your ability to fly...QED...

The airline cashes in, and those guys who have worked hard through their training, but neither want / have the ability to finance the SSTR, are left out in the cold. That's a very sad state of affairs, because ultimately we have all lost out due to the phenomenon of SSTR! The SSTR guy is 25K down compared to the way things used to be, and the guy who can't foot the bill for the SSTR is sitting on his arse or instructing on 172's....

Thumbs down all around mate....:(

it is worth remembering that no matter what FR or Brookfield tell you, that if you are working in the UK and living in the UK, or the "centre of your life" is deemed to be in the UK, you WILL be eligible to pay UK income tax.

That's the end of the matter, there is no short cut to not paying tax in UK.

Elsewhere, who knows, but to try and eke more money out of FR by tax loopholes shows just how terrible things have got in our industry.:confused:

Such a carefully thought out and erudite reply; have you ever thought about a career in the Diplomatic Corps?

Finals the market has always being dominated by "those who can afford to fly will”. Apart from the military or ab intio cadet programs it has always being pay to fly. PPL, IR, CPL, ATPL, who paid for yours? SSTR is just an extension of what has being going on for years. At least with FR you have a job after spending the dosh. How much were you guaranteed when you started your ATPL ?

Hard to believe but at one time airlines hired pilots off the ramp and trained them from zero hours but that is no longer the case. If enough people stop turning up that will be the case again but until then Ryanair and everyone else will pay as little as they can to get the labor they need.

If the pilots in the UK and elsewhere want to change this stop blaming the people at the bottom with zero leverage and start doing something. The old model of captive customers getting stuffed to pay for what ever deal the monopolies made with their labor are long gone.

SSTR is not an extension, its an option. An option most people with SJS (Shiny Jet Syndrome) have. Is it fair though that because of Ryanair the whole market has to change? NO!

I think a lot of the pilots are asking others to take a "look at the whole picture" and not just themselves. As a student I might go the CFI route just to improve hours, gain some experience and move foward with a career at a "major" or an airline that bonds you for a couple of years. Getting the hours under my belt.

However I do say another way to combat this is to get GA back. General Aviation is what is causing low hours and because of that you people over the pond are suffering. (Just a thought)

This is an amazing thread creep. The guy only asked for advice in relation to the inital outlay he would have to fork out during his Type Rating.

As usual, whenever Ryanair is mentioned, the is a diversion, the genesis of which focuses upon the "scandal" of paying for additional training or working for Ryanair.

The guy has made his choice and decided for whatever reason, that he is going to pay for a type rating and commence his airline career with Ryanair. I for one wish him the best of luck despite my previously posted misgivings.

Perhaps some of the old timers out there, rather than shake their heads at us younger guys, care to cast their minds rear wards and recall the day when paying for a Type Rating was first introduced. And then hang their heads in shame for not taking the airlines on over the issue and saving this career for future generations.

But the old timers didn't, because "it didn't affect them". Selfish, self serving and very short sighted. It's not the "youth" of today who have created the problem of SSTR, it's the older wiser pilots who should have known better at least a decade ago.

Bravo!!!!! :D:D:D:D