Korean Air taking non-typoe rated captains?
 

I´ve heard that KALwill take non-type rated captains for the 737NG,777 and 747, does anyone have any info about that?
And if so... how about the screening process? Does anyone know about that?
Thank you.

KAL recruitment
 

Hi dear! Did you get any reply on your question?

I am trying via GAP aviation to get a KAL contract and I might have to go to Korea very soon.

Tks Stephan

Hi

If you contact Barbara Kelly in Direct Personnel International she will tell you all about it. Barbara is looking after the KAL contract and will be glad to inform you about the specifics required for the non-type rated pilots and all the other positions too. Barbara is great to deal with - extremely helpful, friendly and efficient.

[email protected] or 00 353 1 8138400

I hope this helps!

Best of luck!

PlaneJane :)

KAL
 

Thanks a Lot!

I ´ve found some info on the Net and I am now in contact with GAP aviation in the U.S..
They told me that away from the 75/767 Cp ´s they might soon consider
737NG CP´s aswell for 777 rating DEC.
The cost of the Typ rating has to be payed by the DEC, but they expect the cost to be around 5000$ US.( approx. 1 week course).
Their Contractors fly about 14 days on and then 14days off.
Wich consist out of 9 days off + 3 days travell + 2days vacation/p.m..

We will see.

Thanks anyway.

Kind regards

I'm in contact with Rishworth.
The briefing they sent me does not say the price of the type-rating (and I did search on the net and got courses for more than US$25,000.00 on the B777).
Where did you get the price of US$5,000.00 Wonder Dog?
You are suposed to send the agency some forms, if KAL chooses you, you will have to go to Seul for the screening proccess (medical, interview and simulator).
Passing the screening you and KAL agree on a date for you to join, when you shall have your type-rating. You do it by yourself, paying all the costs of it.
So, it is really not a non type-rated job, as you will have to be type-rated on joining the company.
SF:bored:

Feedback from Rishworth is that widebody experience needed for widebody position.

That's true. They are saying that KAL is requesting experience as follows:
B777 - B767 (flown on the last year);
B744 - Any other wideboy (flown on the last year)
A330 - Airbus family (flown on the last year).
SF

KAL
 

GAP Aviation told me that they are talking to KAL about the oportunity to take 737NG Pilots aswell as the 757 and 767 Pilots to train them on the 777.
Boeinf offers a course from 737ng to 777 wich is only about a week long, but I don´t know if this course is accepted allready to the JAA or FAA.
In this case you could get a long with this price.
The normal SIM hour in Europe is about 400€ for an Airline( 600$), so if you have to do 20hr Sim than you would end up with a total of 8000€.
So you share these cost with your co-pilot and you pay 4000€.(6000$)

And even this price is very low because it does´nt include the Instr. and the Gnd course.

But I am just telling you, what they told me!

I was told by CCL that the widebody experience is required to fly the B777:

" We have received many requests from B737 captain to upgrade to the B777 or B744, this will not be possible under this program due to the Widebody requirement."

About the cost of a type-rating, Alteon/Boeing told me that it would cost me US$ 23,000.00 for a single pilot to do a transition course from the B767 to the B777.
Maybe for a complete crew (2 pilots) it would cost half of it.
SF

Wonder Dog, the market is hot, but not that hot, yet:)

Weird!
 

So the pilot will have to find a place to do the type-rating and do it for himself? That´s really very weird! In this case why Korean don´t just give them the training and make them do a deposit like Singapore does or make them sign a training bond or something? Who gonna expend 23.000 dolars in a self sponsored training like that? And if you don´t pass the training? You are screwed !!!!!!!

True
 

That's what been said by Rishworth and CCL. And both agencies just don't know where or how a candidate would do the type rating.
Pretty unprofessional for a company like KAL, the bond would be much more easier on everyone and that what's the other big airlines have been doing.
But the question remains, will they find pilots willing to self sponsored a type rating course?:confused:
SF

EXP levels
 

with all this chat about ratings...KAL looks like they can expect some really experienced guys!!!...not
Good luck on a job...just hope the passengers don't get to read this....capt and f/o 744 with 20 hours sim time between them!

Experience
 

Every pilot that begins to fly a new aircraft type starts with only 40 sim hours, BlunderBus.
Obviously, anyone that is hired on KAL will have to fly with an instructor for some time, so the passengers won't have to worry about his experience on the type.
SF

The market is so hot because old fashioned chief pilots still think that only widebody-guys can fly widebody, excluding all highly experienced medium jet drivers from their market. Good for the widebody guys, bad for the chief pilots ;)

If I would select pilots for my airline I would rather put emphasis on how the pilots are, not on what they flew before. You can set ANY B737 or A320 pilot in a B777 with hardly any problem.

Dani

Dani - I don't think the issue is actually converting from 73/A32 to the widebody. The difference is in the TYPE OF OPERATION. There is a vast difference between flying on short haul narrowbody ops and LH ops. Management factors, from a tech crew p.o.v, are very different. Having done both types of ops, they are each demanding in their own way. They are, however, chalk and cheese. Some skill sets transfer, but new ones need to be aquired, and others 'unlearned.' With appropriate training , mentoring etc the transition is quite easily achieved, BUT maybe the airline doesn't have the resources to supply that, hence the requirement.

clear to land
 

With introduction of the 73NG the 73 should no longer be considered "short haul". a lot of us find that we are doing MMPS airspace and a lot of flying into "darkest Africa".

As usual the CV's are not being looked at by pilots but by the personel department.

I totally agree with Clear to Land, and KAL is requesting current widebody experience (flown on the last year at least), not only widebody experience.
SF

Can someone give me some idea about basings and renumeration for LHS on these contracts?

Thanks

Clear to land, while I understand your way of thinking, I still don't agree. Of course it's about long haul vs short haul. But why does the chief pilot of Korean, e.g., ask for a "current wide body experience"?? If he really would be up to his task, he would have asked for long haul experience or "worldwide experience", that's what it's all about. His way of looking for pilots and the rigid rule of applying them present me with the fact that his thinking is far away from your rational reasoning.

As mentioned before, there are lots of very capable crews around on B737 and A320 with lengthy experience on long haul operations, in all type of operations, everywhere in the world. If you know to fly a B737 from one continent to another, you can easily do it with a B777.
As long as chief pilots in Asia and their supporting contractors don't realize it they will be in an artificial crew shortage. Good for the 777 pilots, bad for the Asian carriers...

But don't worry, in a year or two, the shortage will be so big that even the Korean chief pilot will realize this fact.

Dani

I wouldn't be so sure.

Current widebody command experience is required simply because this has been shown over and over that it is the way to go...with regrets to some of the younger narrow-body short haul guys, whom, it would seem, don't have much of a clue about all this.:ugh:

except, dear 411A, those younger narrow-body (but not narrow-minded) pilots that do long haul flights on their B737 BBJs, ACJs, A320s, A318 aso...

Dear old 411A, you belong to a old bread, you were right in your days, these days have gone. The only reason why nobody admits that most of the medium jet guys are very well capable of doing long haul, is that they don't want to compromise their own state of being a long haul pilot.

We do long haul every day, yes, we could also do it on a 777...

Dani

I don't think it's the doing of the long-haul that's the problem, more like the handling of a 395ton B744 v 70ton BBJ. :cool:

And yes I've got a shed load of hours on both ;)

easy

yeah, I agree, a 744 is a different kind. Lots of metal and poor handling quality. If you would have ever flown a 777 or an Airbus widebody, you would know that the transition from its smaller sisters is the same as your avater.

Cheers,
Dani

KAL is in danger of becoming a big flight school. The Ruskies upgraded to the B744 are itching to join an outfit called Sky Bridge; once EY, EK, Jet, AI, etc start to have a similar commuting contract, a lot of non rated guys who had come for the rating will probably bail out. Life in KAL can be highly stressful even when you are positioning in the comfort of FCl/BCl... you can't be sure that you will not be a statistic in a massive prang. Several close calls in the last 3 years; it's a matter of time when luck runs out.

Dani
I once had a jack russle,with your personality. A bush pig took him out, because he wouldn't listen when we called him. Split him in half.

Now calm yourself down son.

We are only the drivers, we do not make the rules.
So stop yapping like that dog of mine.
I did the KAL interview for 777 (rated). According to CCL they have 50+, 744 rated guys. Whey on earth would KAL offer this position to you. They are not as deperate as you think. I have 5 months to make up my mind to take this job. After this time.............adios.

oh dear #987, also you - an old guy trying to defend his privileges...

I never said I want this job, heaven's sake! I just try to explain why there seems to be shortage here. There are several airlines in the world, which don't seem to get enough people on their fleet, mainly in the Middle East, South East Asia and Northern Asia. They are mainly airlines with a disputable name or with living condition in their home bases which don't seem to be perfect for the experienced expat.

So instead of insisting on type rating, they would rather look on the individual abilities. And if they are willing to crosstrain you, it really doesn't matter if he's coming from a A330 or a A320, really not. Stating a policy like this shows me that this management has no clue about what a good crew is.

Son, as I said, I only drive them, someone else makes the rules as to whom they choose to employ.

Now, you been acting like that dog I told you about, doesn't know when to stop.

You carry on with your ranting here, you can not change a thing.
This is the way it is. Your time will come, just be patient.

Now prey one of us old timers don't get you in the sim. With an attitude like that, some manners need to be taught.:=

Dad, as you only drive them, please stop your remarks, as mine are not ment for you.

Giving me animal names and comparing me with your pet is exactly the lack of CRM you show with your other remark, that you threaten me to destroy me during our future sim session.

This is exactly what upsets me in this so called "shortage". Traditional -mainly Asian - carriers think that experience is more important than character. Believe me, I am known to be very team oriented in a simulator. Especially KAL doesn't have the reputation to hire CRM oriented people, to put it mildly.

I'm 100% sure that most of the young, enthusiast medium jet driver in the LCC environment would be perfectly capable of doing that job, and they would do it at least as good as the grey-haired near-retired guys they are looking after so desperatly.
And why shouldn't the medium jet pilots not be capable, since every career airline does exactly the same: Transition them from a medium to a heavy jet. I haven't jet heard that any experienced med jet driver in a major airline had any problem in this phase.

Over and out - I wont "bark" anymore until I don't hear any new valuable arguments.

Dani

Goooood boy.

Imagine that.
Always has been, always will be, whether the younger ones like it or not.:}

Ace, I used to be in KAL and according to friends still there KLA's commuting contract remains the best around. I loved the " good " time I had with them, but decided that it was not worth the stress. KAL indeed had several close calls like landing on the taxiway in Akita, near meteorite dive at Katmandu etc. It's not nice extra crewing on these flight and then be identified as a crew member later when they find your body in the smouldering mangled mess. Think hard, think very hard guys. Been there, had the kimchin and counted some firends and acquaintances amongst their Guam Nimitz stats:{

Dani, don,t forget that those guys upgrading from the medium to the heavy at the majors, did a lot of time heavy as an F/O. Pretty standard career stuff. But who knows what the future brings.;)