BA: Is It Really That Bad???
 

Hi guys, me again!

on a threat called "Virgin vs. BA" here at pprune and some threats people don´t write very good about BA and even some guys want to go back to their old companys with a lot of cargo night flights for less money. It´s not just one who is writing that, so my question:"IS BRITISH AIRWAYS REALLY THAT BAD????? I know pprune is of course a rumour network, and the pilots mentality, i guess, is that they are always unsatisfied with something in the company. If it wouldn´t be like that, than we would have anything to talk about during a long flight (of course there are some other very important topics, u know what i mean).
I would like to have some statements from BA pilots here. What do u think as pilots of a major-global-player compared to others?
This would be very interesting for me and a lot of other newjoiners. I work right now for a good but small airline with very good T´s & C´s but the managment is changing it. New entrys earn 35% less, and it will be just a matter of time until the older contracts will be terminated. I have a longhauloffer at BA, and it is a very big and lifechanging decision for me to take it or not. I´ll have to commute from europa mainland etc etc etc and i´m not a british guy! I know some will say: We had that topic already somewhere similar, so just use the search function - I did it and I´m aware about the pension and the time to command etc. I just want to get an overall overview with collected (merged) statements from BA-pilots that also the others, who are in the same situation like me can use. Thanks to all!!!
PS: Would u join again?

No its not that bad. I think it's pretty good overall but then I'm on the 747 which is largely insulated from the worst parts of the operation. What I can say is it's certainly not getting any better, and may get measurably worse in the next year. Management on the whole is very, very poor which creates a vicious circle because nobody decent wants to be a manager and work with the rest of them. On the whole keep your head down, get a seperate mobile phone so you can't be drafted, don't let the other departments p*** you off no matter how much they provoke you and you can have a pretty good time. Just don't fly the Airbus unless you want to be really tired and make sure you go out for a beer downroute or people will think you're a bit strange.

Best Ts+Cs and overall money package in the UK.

Not the best pension now though.

In fact you will be lucky to get a pension since the pension fund is underfunded to the tune of 66% of what BA is reputed to be actually worth.

In that, they are a national leader!

It can't be as bad as any other s/haul out fit is it? like an easyjet or a midland?
If it is worse, how so?

Three letters. LHR. That makes your home base worse than pretty much anywhere Easy operate to, and you'll be there 50% of the time. That gives you plenty of opportunity to interact with the more militant/inept/understaffed departments such as cabin crew, ground staff, dispatchers, tug drivers, bus drivers etc etc. Add in utterly unrealistic schedules (35 min turnaorund for a full 319 with cleaning and recatering) and you'll soon realise you're on a hiding to nothing for the rest of the day and the only way to reduce the stress level is to say "f*** the schedule" and work at your own pace. Sad but true.

At least BA look after their 777 longrange pilots??!!

You will have seen the superb rest facilities on the Boeing LR aircraft that flew into LHR today. BA were going to put the same on their 777's about five years ago, to try and improve the standard of the pilots rest facility to somewhere approaching that of the cabin crew.

Remind me, did it happen?

And of course everything is just peachy in the LoCo world, charter world and Midland, who can barely get enough FO's to fly their programme.

The trouble with BA is that a lot of people don't know they are born because they've never worked for anyone else.

Even the ones who have soon get spoilt and turn into BALPA Forum moaners who make a conference of gay hairdressers seem unemotional.

If its so bad I don't know why these idiots stay, and don't say seniority, its a free world.

The pension, I would imagine. If that goes, BA are likely to be even shorter staffed of pilots than they are now.

I used to work for someone else, and even though I loved it, I am happy to be at BA. Would certainly not consider working for a loco now that I am where I am (unless I didn't have a choice). As far as longhaul goes, with the 767 picking up some of the East Coast routes, the 777 will have better rosters in 6 months to a years time I reckon. The Jumbo is the fleet to be on though I would say.

I fly the 767 and I love it - although I am on the newer side of things.

If you are aware of the pension and retirement age legislation possibilities and you have your eyes open, then I reckon BA may well be a good choice. It depends where you are now.

The atmosphere is good generally and when you are away from LHR it is as fun as you make it. At LHR things can go very well, but there are too many occasions of niggly annoying things. If you let it wash its OK, if you are prone to getting annoyed by it, then be aware!

Don't get out much do you NN? Obviously missed the fact that we have managers meeting aircraft on a daily basis to force draft people because we don't have enough FOs to fly the programme!:p

Rubbish - the pension that new joiners are on is Defined Contribution - there is no underfunding of the new scheme whatsoever, hence why NAPS is closed to new DB joiners and BAPS provides a DC pension. The DC scheme cannot be underfunded as it promises nothing other than the return on the investments - the risk is on you.

The DC pension is underfunded because if the contribution rate cannot possibly produce a reasonable fund to purchase a pension, it is by definition underfunded. A not unreasonable Captain's pension might be £25K with 20 years service. Say a £5K annuity costs £100K. The fund would therefore need to be £500K. The current funding will provide £300K, hence it is woefully underfunded. Cathay pay 15.5% of gross, Virgin pay 15% of basic. BA pay 12% of 75% of basic (9%).

If BA would just fix the DC pension to a realistic rather than penny pinching level I could whole heartedly say that BA is by far the best company to fly for.

If you don't like the pension go to Virgin. Or so our Director of Flight Ops recently said to a new DEP in front of a gobsmacked audience.

Now I've heard everything!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Well thats that decided then :D

Whaaooo there boy!!!!

Did he actually say go to Virgin?!!!

I'd previously heard the response was along the lines of : 'Well, you knew the deal when you started.'

However, I hear more and more that the deal was NOT clear to new starters. It was only described as "Industry Leading".

Flying Tom: Do you have a reference for Cathay and Virgin figures? If these are true then BA members of BALPA should be outraged at how we have let down our new colleagues.

He certainly did use those words Finger Bob, I heard them myself! This was shortly after the CEO said the BARPS pension scheme was OK as he was on it - conveniently forgot to mention he's also on a 250% bonus! Either way they both adamant there would be no increase to the companys contribution rate to BARPS.

I was stood at the bus-stop yesterday (in the rain) when the self same Director of Flight crew drove past in his brand new Jaguar XK coupe. He gave me a cheery wave which I returned - well sort of :ok:

To you it may not be adequate, but by the standards that an 'underfunded' pension scheme exists in both the media and accounting terms, it is not. The company owes no further money other than what it gave to BAPS in contributions for members. The NAPS and APS old DB schemes however require the company to make up the shortfall - at least in NAPS which is underfunded - over the next 10 years or face remediation action from the PPF to prevent the state being overloaded with promises made in the past that companies cannot fulfil.

BA have made no promises on what you shall get from BAPS - capitalism dictates that when the terms are insufficient that BA will not be able to hire the staff.