easyJet Rosters
 

ok, so I am interested in flying for easyJet, why you may ask? well new equipment I'm type rated on, a shot at a command in the not too distant future, a decent salary, not the worst locations in the world to be based in, and it seems high standards on the flightdeck and training, so why hasnt my interest yet materialised into a firm application, well its the lifestyle issue isnt it and its a big issue I'm sure you'll agree

is their any firm commitment from eJ management to sort out the mess in rostering, are they commited to a Ryanair 5 on 3 off type deal or something similar in the near future or will it continue to be as bad as it seems over the next few years as the bus is introduced

where are the buses going after Gatwick in March?

be very grateful for any furthur input from those in the know, I need to make a decision on this over the next week or two

Pass, pass, pass and pass!!!

Rumour has it that they are going to press the CAA for an alleviation to the 'max 3 earlies' to 5 in a row.

This will enable them to go to a 5+3 pattern

And how the h*ll are they going to do that when I've been told by the little lady in the 'spin and dream' centre at Luton that I can't get my leave in and thats after they've just been buying back leave at a thousand quid a day and still stuffing the bat squarely where it doesnt belong at the same time!!!! And all this with silly mega days on and minimum days off. 5 and 3 is just another pipe dream to string us along and as for a CAA alleviations of the FTL rules.............! I'm really looking forward to the 0400 start, 12 hour duty and 6 sectors ... oh yeh. The PC must be blind to go along with this...guys yu're supposed to be on our side. lets hope that the CAA have their heads screwed on

cosmijewel

Your post shows just how little you know about this!

Who said the PC are going along with anything!

Where do you get the notion of 0400 starts and 12 hour days and 6 sectors from?

You are thinking of the wrong airline cos it ain't gonna happen at EZ! It's never even been suggested.

Put your hand in your pocket and join Balpa, get access to the pilots' website, and you will find all of the fact and none of the fiction then you can stop spreading such ribbish on the net!

okay okay okay. Answer a few simple questions with no 'new orange' spin cos I've had enough of it

How will we get 5 and 3 if we can't even get our leave in now with 6 and 3 which is as we all know really 7 and 2.

How many members of the PC have been promotoed in the last 6 months

Why can other airlines give there crew okay rostering and a decent lifestyle without having to ask the CAA to change the flight duty rules to do it

Last winter we managed to keep our crew food but we have to pay £1100 per year for it, yet alrteady we are getting less than before. Give us one example of a commitment from their lordships which they have actually kept

Once I was orange - now I'm browned off

cosmijewel

The 5/3 discussions have been taking place for some time now.

6 months ago the company said no no no no! The guy responsible for that response is no longer with us!

Now. with new rostering management in place, they are listening and examining, with Council reps, how it might be implemented.

The forced introduction of the rolling week (instead of Sun-Sun) and the forced implementation of the EU working time directives in Dec make 5/3 even more realistic than before.

How many PC members have been promoted in the last 6 months - none that I know of? What's that got to do with anything?

So you didn't get your leave - what about the other 875 pilots? Are you suggesting that no-one did?

Which other airlines in profit give 'OK rostering'? BA rosters are good but the airline is a few £bn in debt.

Have you any idea at all what has been going on about crew food, particularly in the last 6 weeks? Are you aware that the new crew food manager was appointed last week to deal with the current situation following considerable pressure from the Balpa Crew food rep?

Are you aware of the efforts he went to get the previous crew food manager to get up and actually do something rather than avoiding meetings at all cost?

No, you don't seem to be aware of that at all.

If you are a member of Balpa you will be aware of all these things and more.

If you are not, you obviously don't really care what happens and are happy to leave it to others to sort out whilst you sit on the sidelines and whinge about things.

Hi Flaps One -assuming that your BALPA and mayve even PC you guys mean well but you're falling for the usual clap trap and when you review what you say, you sound like management

Still waiting to hear of one promise to the pilots that easy managers have made and kept

Still waiting to hear if you agree that the food has gone down since we agreed to keep it even though we paid for it to stay the same. Yes - great news after 9 months that some one new is on the case - just wait for the '!'m new and still getting to know the job' routine. Huge success I don't think

Is the new rostering manager that your pining your faith in the same one who told a captain in the crewroom that pilots are all overpaid. The bloke that said no no no has left over his own free will from what I've heard - don't suggest he was kicked out - if he'd wanted I bet he'd still be there

If you bother check, you should see that even with the present roster system quite a few people could'nt get there leave in this year which I think was same as last year so don't suggest that I'm the only one out of 875. In that context how on earth are we going to get the much heralded 5 and 3

The PC are maybe well intentioned but actually achieve nothing - even maintaining the status quo is seen as a success. Your just falling for the same old same old empty promises.

It looks as if BALPA membership is falling so if you want to stop that, you'll have to stop relaying orange company doctrine and start acting like a union council - then I'll join

It's precisely because of the quality of the crew food that the CC has now (2 months ago) got a dedicated rep for it! He is on the case. What more would you like without actually doing anything yourself?

The management have had to agree that they have failed in some key areas of the protocol introduced at the beginning of this year. Discussions are on-going to rectify the failings and make this an improved agreement instead of a protocol.

To that end, disruption payments to the affected bases, will be paid before the end of this year. Never saw that before did you?

You clearly haven't the faintest idea what has been going on over the last few months have you?

The new rostering manager made one comment after being verbally abused in the crewroom. At that time he'd had the job for a couple of weeks! Let's damn him in perpetuity then!

He hasn't been in charge of that dept for one full season yet - what on earth do you want?

How many of the 880+ pilots did not get their exact leave bid? You obviously have the figures.

Leave has nothing at all to do with roster patterns (6/3, 5/3 or whatever). It has everything to do with scheduling, recruitment and retention.

Balpa membership is not falling - it's static. Exactly the same percentage as Feb this year.

Why do you want half the pilots in the company to go out and try and get a deal, with which you are happy, so that you can then decide whether or not you might join the association?

Surely once a good deal is hopefully achieved, there would be less incentive to actually join and help achieve something else.

How do you think a Union Council should act when people like you couldn't be bothered to join and lend any support?

I haven't relayed one piece of Orange Company Doctrine as you put it - just told the facts about most of which you are blissfully unaware.

Still not aware of any CC members that have been promoted recently......are you sure you've got the right company?

So I'm still waiting to here of one commitment to crew that they've made and honoured.

So they say they've made some mistakes and please trust us because we are going to sort it out now. How many times have w e heard that and still some of us seem to be falling for it. was'nt last winter the last chance - so having made another mess of it we once again hear - 'yes we know we have to improve but please trust us because this time we REALLY mean it blah blah blah'. Its been the same for the last 3 years and the new guy is'nt the first new guy to be brought in - they've done that before as well. this ne guys comment about pilots being overpaid shows his mindset - do you think he'll unlearn that.

about the promotions - they are there so just work it out

about the leave - your missing the point because your not wanting to listen - I did'nt say I'm not getting my exact leave bid - the point is that the company has once again been buying back leave because it was the only way it could save the programme yet others are still having trouble getting there leave in and if this is happening with 7 and 2, how can they (or you) possibly think that they can change to 5 and 3 and still operate the flying programme. And if others can do 5 and 3 without having to change the duty limit rules then why can't we

The guy who started this topic wanted an opinion - well he's got mine and he can take it or leave it - his choice

Just for once to let some facts get in the way of a good rant - why not discuss how many guys are leaving at the moment - how many pilots are we short of at the moment and guess what - in a few months of more stuffing us around you'll hear - 'we could'nt help it because of the lack of pilots but this time we REALLY REALLY mean it so please trust us'.

As for similiarities between the PC and management, your doing a good job of just slagging off any one who criticisies the company - for once why can't some one live up to spin about an 'open culture and honest culture

I'm off and I'll be voting with my feet and in case you don't care to answer the q above I think I'm behind quite a few guys with that decision

I'm really glad you are voting with your feet!

I know all the CC. There's nothing to work out!

Are you sure your not confusing this with the so-called Pilot's Panel?

You have obviously heard about 0.00001% of the discussion on FTLs. Go out and find out about the rest before you comment further.

I'm finished with this topic.

so there you have it - easyjet culture at work - hammer any one is is'nt saying how wonderful it is - this open peoiple culture is wonderful and that seems to be form one of the PC - the orange indoctrination is immense and its part of the big picture (IMHO) to destroy the pilot profession and turn us into nothing more than machine operators - sadly many are duped into going along with it

Flaps - your just not looking hard enough

cosmijewel

Leave ole Flaps to it, he hasn't a clue!

I'm getting out - it's the only way.

Flaps and his mates are flying themselves and the profession to destruction, I just know*** really appreciates it! :mad:

cosmijewel and others of the Orange order.

I'm genuinely interested in the comment regarding buying back leave to maintain the programme. Is this true?

Employment law changed quite some time ago and, as far as I'm aware, the buying back of leave is completely illegal unless undertaken as part of termination of employment.

There is a difference between being ground in the deck against your will and adding to your woes.

Comments???

Well it happened again this year just like last year and probably the year before that. price went up though to £1000 per day which makes it pretty attractive. However, trouble is that we work so bloody hard with min days off and European min leave that frankly most people I know need the leave but can't turn the money down - this amount of money shows how absolutely desperate they are and again makes a mockery of any suggestion that they can move to 5 and 3

Flaps - don't want to knock the PC becos I think we are all on the same side but don't trust the management. You still can't give me one example where they've kept an undertaking to the pilots

Just for good measure, when you negotiate this deal ( and I for one think you should'nt) I bet you'll find that the new duty rules become a contractural obligation on our part to work to them. Before you go any further just ask if the 5 and 3 is going to be a contractural obligation on the part of the company. I bet you'll get the usual 'best endeavour' and 'we'll try' and 'when operationally possible' bleating excuses but anything short of actually being obliged to do it - I don't think RW gives a toss about crew lifestyle and if you do this I think the slack it creates will eventually be used to reduce the crew number so we all just work harder and harder - correct meif I'm wrong but rumour is that the 5 and 3 is already subject to an occasional 6 and 2 - slippery slope is it not!

I'm gonna hate myself for this cos I said I was finished with this but......................

Leave was bought back in August to fill gaps in the programme.

It was subject to the requirement that each individual would still achieve at least the minimum annual days off laid down in law.

There are bucket loads of rumours about the 5/3 discussions.

Very, very few of them have any basis in fact whatsoever.

Any thoughts that it might become an occaisional 6/2 or 6/3 are complete tosh as there has been no formal proposal yet. Nothing has been put to the CC to consider and nothing has been taken by the CC to the members to vote on.

There have simply been discussions about how it might work. The CC believe it will and are doing their level best to prove it to the other side of the table.

Balpa members are hopeful - but no more than that - that there is a chance we might get it through.

As for the FTL thingy. There are even more rumours than the 5/3 saga. I have no idea where many of them come from. Maybe it's just to promote discussion but often it seems to be to try and create a hostile atmosphere for no good reason.

Nothing on the FTL matter has yet been considered worthy of even putting up for a vote by Balpa members - that says it all really.

Any new agreement must be just that - an agreement. Not a 'we aim to' or 'we would like' or 'whenever possible'.

I hope that's clear enough.

Flaps - 'leave was bought back to fill gaps in the programme'

listen to yourself man - you've been indoctrinated

you should be writing management spin newsletters - get real - leave was bought back because once again there was a bl**dy crisis and chronic crew shortage

Don't trust them - as you say nothng worthy of putting to a vote and thats why I say the bullish talk is irresponsible - they are spinning us along and if we go along this road, we will find ourselves obliged to comply with the new rules and then some other poor sods will go bust and RW will be along to tell us that market forces have changed and we need to drive our costs and that means crew numbers down and the new duty rules will be very convenient -

So you still have nothing to say of any time they've kept a commitment to us -

Strange why discussions on this forum become so aggressive.
The 6 days on going from earlies to lates is realy hard going.

I have been at the recieving end of 4 weeks of this and was burnt out.
I have worked for 2 other companies , scedule, charter amd wet lease.
I would never go back to random roster.
In my last company I went 11 weeks without a weekend off, on a random roster.
The rolling 7 day week would have prevented that happening.
The FTL is the problem.
Companies use the limits as targets without considering short and long term cumulative fatigue on an individual.

I am not based in London area but having been, understand the problems crews have.
Against a market shortage of pilots the company will have to resolve these problems or face failed buisness objectives.

Cosmijewel good luck
Flapsone I understand the thankless job you guys are doing.

I have found the crewing and rostering staff in this company very very pleasent to deal with without exception.
They have such a difficult job to do.

Ultimatly the market will decide for us and it will (barring another 911) benefit us in the short and long term

Hope I didn't come across as aggressive becos did'nt mean to - also recognise thankless job PC are trying to do but for heavens sake snap out of the cosy relationship with people that have repeatedly shown us that we can't trust them - for me, any changes to the duty rules are not welcome but if they do happen then the 5 and 3 has to be a contrcatual right and I doubt that they will agree to that so to avoid wasting time, get it on the table now

I feel like I'm wasting ny breath, but I'll try.

If I am an Orange Doctrine Spreader why am I trying to change the system we currently have? Surely, I would simply defend what we have and be done with it!!!!

The damned leave was bought back to fill gaps in the programme! The gaps were caused by loads of things, one of which was shortage of crews (which in turn was caused by many things - slow recruitment and people leaving being two). I never said anything different.

It did only affect August (and not all of it) as far as I am aware. If other months were affected I apologise but it was never made known.

Are you saying that we should not talk to the company? I agree bullish talk is irresponsible - so who's being bullish exactly?

You have either missed, or ignored, a fundemental point in these discussions. A change will only be considered by the CAA if we (Balpa members) agree (and that will done by vote).

If we don't hear anything worth voting on then nothing will change. So what's the problem?

Furthermore, any change can be reversed after 6 months if found not to be working. Another safety net.

So the company cannot make us follow any new rules we haven't agreed to and don't like - I see no danger there either.

As regards your repeated insistance on comittments from the company - what are you after?

1. They pay you every month.

This is what we are talking about. We want binding comittments, written into agreements. If no-one talks to the company about these things then they'll never happen will they?

If you want a company that responds to you clicking your fingers then do what BA and Virgin have done. 90+% Balpa membership and very good terms negotiations follow.

So many people sit in the background, waiting for someone else to do something, and then simply criticise everything they do.

They are not members of the association doing all the work, but want to know why they are not fully informed of what is going on.

If you want to have a say, and at least try and make a difference - join the club!

Quick question:

Could you confirm if the leave was bought back in August for First Officers as well as Captains.
I thought it was only for Captains but reading your comments I have some doubts now.

bugle

I'm not 100% sure to be honest.

I think it was both, but many more Capts than FOs.

We have had far more FOs than Capts over the last 6 months anyway so it wouldn't really surprise me either way.

LETS GET A FEW THINGS STRAIGHT HERE.
IN THE LAST NEGOTIATIONS BALPA SOLD OUT AND THE ONLY AGREEMENT WAS FOR OVER 60 PILOTS TO GET FULL PAY FOR DOING SWEET FA..NO FLIGHTS OVER FRANCE SO 20 % OF THE WORK FOR 100% PAY WHEREAS NEW CAPTAINS GET 90% PAY FOR 100% WORK.... THE CHIEF NEGOTIATOR IS OVER 60 AND THE OTHER FIVE MEMBERS HAVE ALL SINCE RESIGNED FROM THE COUNCIL...SO DONT WASTE YOUR TIME THERE.
THE CREWS ARE ABSOLUTELY KNACKERED (FLIGHT FROM ATHENS INTERCEPTED BY BELGIAN AIRFORCE F16S WHO COULD NOT WAKE THE CREWS FOR HALF AN HOUR 8 WEEKS AGO AND THERE HAVE BEEN 3 OTHER INCIDENTS OF A SIMILAR NATURE RECENTLY)
GIVING THE CREWS 4 OR 5 EARLIES IS NOT GOING TO HELP BUT THAT MORON RW GOING WITH HIS 300% PAY RISE THIS YEAR WOULD BE A DAMN FINE START.

There are so many innacuracies in the above response it's laughable.

I assume you re-registered with PPrune to make this stunning contribution as your first post.

Can you correct them then, Flaps One?

There are many in my company who are seriously considering a move to Easy and follow this thread with interest!

Boeing 7E7

Certainly.

Balpa sold nobody out. When they became involved officially in the negotiations (circa Oct) the offer on the table was dreadful.

The final agreement in Feb, following a genuine threat of industrial action and the personal intervention of the General Secretary, was far from perfect but heaps better than what would have been IMPOSED had nothing been done.

The agreement for pilots aged over 60 is part of an on-going international matter and the subject of an exceedingly long debate here on PPrune. It's totally unfair to single out this issue in the negotiations. This battle still rages on, supported by 26 Balpa company councils around the country, and is far from unique at EZ.

The reference to 'chief negotiator' is, I assume, the Chairman of the council. He is indeed over 60 and has just - as was his stated aim 3 months ago when new council elections took place - stood down. He stayed in post for a couple of extra months to help 'see in' new council members.

The other 5 members of the council involved in the last negotiated agreement have not resigned. 2 of the guys directly involved in all last year's talks are actively involved still in negotiations directly affecting rostering, crewing and FTL matters. Another remains as the current vice chair. 3 new council members were elcted in June.

The intercepted Athens flight - which was widely reported on PPrune - involved an aircraft where the No 1 VHF had developed a rather strange problem in that it randomly changed frequency.

The crew didn't notice that they were off frequency and had consequently failed to respond to a number of ATC calls. THEY WERE NOT ASLEEP. SOPs were changed to include the required monitoring of 121.5 on VHF2 as a result. If they HAD been asleep, the SOP would now reflect the mandatory use of an alarm clock!

I don't know of 3 similar incidents, but 2 other R/T related incidents did involve the same airframe - one of which I was flying!

The technical prob was eventually solved after considerable engineering investigation (blue wire had a cold or something!)

I have no idea what RWs pay rise is this year so that might be right.

If it is 300% I would say that's taking the pi$$!

Good response Flaps but you still can't give me one thing where the management have stuck to an agreement with the pilots

Also heard that the crew were'nt asleep but the SOP's were'nt changed as a result of that - they've always been to monitor 121.5 on the spare box so these guys were'nt doing that I presume but getting back to the thread as they were probably totally kn**kered due to the rosters one can feel sorry for them

On the duty time changes (proposed) if I'm not mistaken these discussions have been going on for months and a copy was left in the crewroom so I can assure you I have read it and from what I could see very early starts, 5 days running, 6 sector days and 12 hour flight duties are on the cards - this would be madness.

Thing is though, from what I hear this was not the PCs idea but the PC are once again dancing to RWs tune - we will be stuffed if we do this becos you ca'nt trust them. You just try getting rid of it after 6 months - response will probably be - 'well we've got a few unusual challenges in the next 6 months - markets forces - crew lifestyle will be worse without it you know - viability of the company is at stake - just need to keep the new rules for bit longer - give us a chance to fix the problems - going to bring in some one new - RW is very concerned' and all the other usual b*ll**ks. They had there chance last winter

If we go down this route we are selling out - nothing wrong with CAP371 except that easy don't want to employ the crew number to support there program hence change the rules and get the pilots to work harder ('they're overpaid anyway' and like it or not, that is a quote from an easy manager)

If 5 and 3 is not a contractual right then forget it - ask them now

Well obviouslly I am not going to use my regular name as I know how vindictive Easyjet management are.
Of the original 6 elected members of the PC 5 have resigned and Im glad Mr nest featherer has gone as well... with hopefully his disputed share options.
I heard that the F16 had their afterburners on to try to wake up the crew and only a call from Ops on the SELCAL woke them up..but hey the report will tell the truth
The BALPA deal had nothing in it as far as FTL and the main complaint ...day one 0500 start day 0400 finish day 7 all hammered out tooth and nail by our superb negotiators...as a result the crews are tireder than ever and have another £1000 for summer disruption ,with no family or social life.Well done BALPA ..how many members have resigned since?

cosmijewel

Re 121.5, A NOTAC was issued shortly after the event making this a requirement, which it wasn't before. That was not laid down in any documentation prior to these incidents.

The document found in the crewroom had NOTHING to do with any discussions with the CC and was NEVER put to the council for consideration in that form. It started a huge amount of debate within Balpa members who all got wind of it's contents - all for nothing because it wasn't being considered by the CC for one minute.

So yes it would have been madness - but it wasn't considered. So why do you have a problem with that? I could understand your concern IF the council had given this apparent suggestion any credence.

I can't see how you can say the council are dancing to RWs tune. If that were the case would not the council have simply accepted any of his proposals without question? The fact is that the council says "No", or" not until that's changed" quite a lot. So there's no dancing going on at all.

The 6 month thing has nothing to with the company. It's the CAA. If the Council said "this is not working as planned" the company can say "but/if/maybe" as often as it likes but it won't change matters or stop the CAA reverting.

A main point of these discussions is to make 5/3 contractual. It would really ice if that were tomorrow but, reality says, it will take a little longer. Why can you not accept that that is what Balpa is working to achieve?

NOT ORANGE

Firstly, I won't enter into personal attacks against anyone.

CC members don't get elected and stay there for life! People come and people go and there elections available every year. Some have left because of disagreements (not unusual in any company), others have left because of the drain on time that the job imposes. Nothing unusual in that at all.

Fact is, that the mainstay of last year's negotiating team is still there fighting to make things better. It was clearly stated at the time that last year was step forward (which it was) and that there was still a lot to do. That is being adressed now to get another step forward - hopefully a bigger one. THen work will commence on the following year.

Everything cannot be achieved at once - how nice it would be if that were possible.

Don't know anything about F16 reheat merchants. I haven't read the report but I would have thought it was already out so maybe I'll look it up.

Having flown very (very!) close to aircraft with reheat selected I would say if that doesn't wake someone then there is no way a selcal will.

So no-one on the CC is dancing to any tunes or selling anything - and ALL matters will be put to the registered members to vote on in a democratic fashion when details are there.

Surely there can be no difficulties with that, can there?

I and many others outside of Easy Jet follow with interest this thread, especially as Easy have advertised for experienced FO's and Captains to join them in recent weeks.

For the FO's that come from the established Charter outfits the only thing that Easy appears to offer is a short time to command. That may sound great, but what do they do after a few years once the novilty has worn off?

Many of the FOs in my company face this dilema! It seems that pilots at Easy really have a bit of a bum deal and I would be suprised if Easy really did attract many of the pilots it advertised for in 'Flight' the other week.

Consider this; in most of the charter companies that operate the airbus (and in particular mine) we dont appear to ever work as hard as you. Not even in the summer! Rarely do we do more than 4-5 days on in the summer. Followed by at least 2 days off. Standbys very often turn into a day at home. On average we work about 14 flights a month in the summer and MUCH less in the winter. Annually flying hours in the region of 700.

We do have night flights which most people hate, but not more than 2 in a week and rarely more than 6 in a month during the summer.

Added to this the employment package includes:
-15% Employer pension contributions (as apposed to 7% Easy)
-Sick pay 26 weeks in 12 months (12 weeks/year Easy)
-PHI (of 75% salary if unable to work) (Easy none)
-Private medical Insurance (Easy None)
-Full cost of medical covered (Easy up to £182)
-Licence renewal cost (Easy none)
-Holiday concessions of up to £1000/year (Easy none)
-Dry cleaning vouchers for our free uniform (Easy £16.67/month - but must buy uniform)
-Buisinss travel insurance while on duty (Easy ?)
-£3000/year of company sharesafter (Easy 5% bonus after 3 years as captain)


Some things Easy have are better but in the main they are worse for work you do. Captains salary is more in Easy for a few years because of the sector pay, but because of the salary scales that most of the other airlines have this advantage only lasts about 4 years - about the time it takes for the novilty of a quick command to wear off!

Boeing 7E7

You have made good and fair comparisons and I wouldn't dispute anything you say.

A lot of things have to change and it won't be overnight.

Some of the issues you address (PHI and Pensions being the big ones) are high on the list of action points for the company council.

I would, as always, hope for improvement to make the package considerably more attractive than it currently is.

We are trying hard and I wish I could promise some movement in the near future.

It sounds like you're better off where you are at the moment but it would be really nice (for us at EZ!) if we could say something different in 6 months or so.

For anybody considering joining EZY I would like to point out that at least 500 cabin crew have resigned this year.They work to the same 6.5 on 2.5 off as the pilot workforce and many pilots have resigned recently with a hell of a lot more to go when the market picks up.BALPA had a great opportunity to do something about this but failed miserably to do this for what MANY believe to be very selfish reasons and so the only option was to find another job.. not so easy in todays market.I would agree with Flapsone and give it six months to see if any of the management retoric will result in a job that is worth doing but I do believe that so many will leave that there will be some major problems this Spring.

DHL Air !!
They are looking at introducing a 8/6 roster, but at the moment my roster is even better then 8/6.
Life is good in the Freight world:}

Neil

NOT ORANGE

Given that Balpa membership at the time was bouncing between 50% and 60%, what was the "great opportunity" you refer to?

Had the membership at the time been more like 80-90% that might have been a different story altogether.

Also, I'm not quite sure what the "selfish reasons" are.

The company easily changed things by including Go pilots who had nothing to do with the negotiations which went on for the best part of a year.Most of the members were captains as we all new full well that FOs would be blocked from command by that vicious management.The deal was a pay rise and working rights for over 60 pilots (do other airlines pay over 60 pilots full salary even though they cannot do the full job?) and nothing else.
With the fastest delivery of airplanes in European history do you really think things will get better?One thing is for sure ..it cant get any worse.

The selfish bit is the chairman is over 60 and walked around various crew rooms with the then chief pilot (62) actually selling the deal to people whilst explaining that new Captains would get 90% pay for six months and also go to any base the company wanted.BRILLIANT!!!!!!

The over 60 thing:

An 11 page document had 12 lines about over 60s rules!

5 of those line related to the rules relating to France and others.

Then the note that over 60s would be retained on 1 year contracts, renewable each year, providing the network could emply them usefully within the regulations.

Then a statement that EZ, together with Balpa and every Company Council in the country , would try and make joint representations to our European partners concerning the over 60 rules. That process, with the full support of the company,is currently taking place.

The affected many more people than the chairman of the council - how on earth can that be selfish?

FOs that have worked with the council (not many, I know) have received neither preferential nor 'promotion blocking' treatment.

If they had, the company would have been in court by now as the employment law of the land has very clear views on such matters - and Balpa would fight the case.

Following the ding dong between self and others on one hand and Flaps and his mates on the other, perhaps now would be a good time for an update on how the talks with easy management are going - latest rumours are of disappointment.

Well what an earth shattering surprise that this!!!!!

As most of these things in easyjet also end up in a recruitment ad for BALPA and the usual whinge is that if more of us joined the world would all be okay, please can I just point out that when we had the referendum on BALPA recognition, I distinctly remember being told by those campaigning for BALPA, that they would look after us all even if we are not members and therefore we must all vote YES.

How odd that now they have recognition they will only look after us if we join.

Seems easy PC commitment is about as reliable as easy mangement commitment

Listen up guys - the duty time negotiation is a management con. We will have to work to any agreed new rules but there is no way that RW and the other rascals will give us contractual rights to 5 on and 3 off

cosmi thingy

Latest rumours????? Shame on you!

If you want a say to influence the talks, then join. If you don't want a say, stay put!

Do you think we are out there deliberately negotiating a bad deal?

For Christ's sake - what planet are you on? We will be affected equally by whatever deal is done. Do you think for one minute I am about to go and sign my life away just to p!ss off the non-members?

You clearly know nothing at all about any FTL discussions. So, because you don't know anything, you resort to guesswork.

Fine, if that makes you happy, carry on.

We will continue to negotiate on behalf of ALL the pilots in the company as long as we retain the mandate to do so.

We will, however, not represent any non-member at any disciplinary hearing should there be one - and we have been asked to on a few occasions!

But remember, as it currently stands, if we don't negotiate for the pilots, no-one does!

Where so you think we will end up then? Think back 3 years!!!!!!

Flaps1,
Previously,you said 6on 3off is a great step forward.
Bollocks utter bollocks .
If you and Klinky think that you should BOTH resign.:cool:

You ,Colonel Klink, and Rw should be sent 3rd class to KIWILAND never to return.
The above is why you have LOST so many members!

Don't confuse me for a New Zealander you fool, I'm Australian!


The Colonel