easyJet Rosters
 

ok, so I am interested in flying for easyJet, why you may ask? well new equipment I'm type rated on, a shot at a command in the not too distant future, a decent salary, not the worst locations in the world to be based in, and it seems high standards on the flightdeck and training, so why hasnt my interest yet materialised into a firm application, well its the lifestyle issue isnt it and its a big issue I'm sure you'll agree

is their any firm commitment from eJ management to sort out the mess in rostering, are they commited to a Ryanair 5 on 3 off type deal or something similar in the near future or will it continue to be as bad as it seems over the next few years as the bus is introduced

where are the buses going after Gatwick in March?

be very grateful for any furthur input from those in the know, I need to make a decision on this over the next week or two

Pass, pass, pass and pass!!!

Rumour has it that they are going to press the CAA for an alleviation to the 'max 3 earlies' to 5 in a row.

This will enable them to go to a 5+3 pattern

And how the h*ll are they going to do that when I've been told by the little lady in the 'spin and dream' centre at Luton that I can't get my leave in and thats after they've just been buying back leave at a thousand quid a day and still stuffing the bat squarely where it doesnt belong at the same time!!!! And all this with silly mega days on and minimum days off. 5 and 3 is just another pipe dream to string us along and as for a CAA alleviations of the FTL rules.............! I'm really looking forward to the 0400 start, 12 hour duty and 6 sectors ... oh yeh. The PC must be blind to go along with this...guys yu're supposed to be on our side. lets hope that the CAA have their heads screwed on

cosmijewel

Your post shows just how little you know about this!

Who said the PC are going along with anything!

Where do you get the notion of 0400 starts and 12 hour days and 6 sectors from?

You are thinking of the wrong airline cos it ain't gonna happen at EZ! It's never even been suggested.

Put your hand in your pocket and join Balpa, get access to the pilots' website, and you will find all of the fact and none of the fiction then you can stop spreading such ribbish on the net!

okay okay okay. Answer a few simple questions with no 'new orange' spin cos I've had enough of it

How will we get 5 and 3 if we can't even get our leave in now with 6 and 3 which is as we all know really 7 and 2.

How many members of the PC have been promotoed in the last 6 months

Why can other airlines give there crew okay rostering and a decent lifestyle without having to ask the CAA to change the flight duty rules to do it

Last winter we managed to keep our crew food but we have to pay £1100 per year for it, yet alrteady we are getting less than before. Give us one example of a commitment from their lordships which they have actually kept

Once I was orange - now I'm browned off

cosmijewel

The 5/3 discussions have been taking place for some time now.

6 months ago the company said no no no no! The guy responsible for that response is no longer with us!

Now. with new rostering management in place, they are listening and examining, with Council reps, how it might be implemented.

The forced introduction of the rolling week (instead of Sun-Sun) and the forced implementation of the EU working time directives in Dec make 5/3 even more realistic than before.

How many PC members have been promoted in the last 6 months - none that I know of? What's that got to do with anything?

So you didn't get your leave - what about the other 875 pilots? Are you suggesting that no-one did?

Which other airlines in profit give 'OK rostering'? BA rosters are good but the airline is a few £bn in debt.

Have you any idea at all what has been going on about crew food, particularly in the last 6 weeks? Are you aware that the new crew food manager was appointed last week to deal with the current situation following considerable pressure from the Balpa Crew food rep?

Are you aware of the efforts he went to get the previous crew food manager to get up and actually do something rather than avoiding meetings at all cost?

No, you don't seem to be aware of that at all.

If you are a member of Balpa you will be aware of all these things and more.

If you are not, you obviously don't really care what happens and are happy to leave it to others to sort out whilst you sit on the sidelines and whinge about things.

Hi Flaps One -assuming that your BALPA and mayve even PC you guys mean well but you're falling for the usual clap trap and when you review what you say, you sound like management

Still waiting to hear of one promise to the pilots that easy managers have made and kept

Still waiting to hear if you agree that the food has gone down since we agreed to keep it even though we paid for it to stay the same. Yes - great news after 9 months that some one new is on the case - just wait for the '!'m new and still getting to know the job' routine. Huge success I don't think

Is the new rostering manager that your pining your faith in the same one who told a captain in the crewroom that pilots are all overpaid. The bloke that said no no no has left over his own free will from what I've heard - don't suggest he was kicked out - if he'd wanted I bet he'd still be there

If you bother check, you should see that even with the present roster system quite a few people could'nt get there leave in this year which I think was same as last year so don't suggest that I'm the only one out of 875. In that context how on earth are we going to get the much heralded 5 and 3

The PC are maybe well intentioned but actually achieve nothing - even maintaining the status quo is seen as a success. Your just falling for the same old same old empty promises.

It looks as if BALPA membership is falling so if you want to stop that, you'll have to stop relaying orange company doctrine and start acting like a union council - then I'll join

It's precisely because of the quality of the crew food that the CC has now (2 months ago) got a dedicated rep for it! He is on the case. What more would you like without actually doing anything yourself?

The management have had to agree that they have failed in some key areas of the protocol introduced at the beginning of this year. Discussions are on-going to rectify the failings and make this an improved agreement instead of a protocol.

To that end, disruption payments to the affected bases, will be paid before the end of this year. Never saw that before did you?

You clearly haven't the faintest idea what has been going on over the last few months have you?

The new rostering manager made one comment after being verbally abused in the crewroom. At that time he'd had the job for a couple of weeks! Let's damn him in perpetuity then!

He hasn't been in charge of that dept for one full season yet - what on earth do you want?

How many of the 880+ pilots did not get their exact leave bid? You obviously have the figures.

Leave has nothing at all to do with roster patterns (6/3, 5/3 or whatever). It has everything to do with scheduling, recruitment and retention.

Balpa membership is not falling - it's static. Exactly the same percentage as Feb this year.

Why do you want half the pilots in the company to go out and try and get a deal, with which you are happy, so that you can then decide whether or not you might join the association?

Surely once a good deal is hopefully achieved, there would be less incentive to actually join and help achieve something else.

How do you think a Union Council should act when people like you couldn't be bothered to join and lend any support?

I haven't relayed one piece of Orange Company Doctrine as you put it - just told the facts about most of which you are blissfully unaware.

Still not aware of any CC members that have been promoted recently......are you sure you've got the right company?

So I'm still waiting to here of one commitment to crew that they've made and honoured.

So they say they've made some mistakes and please trust us because we are going to sort it out now. How many times have w e heard that and still some of us seem to be falling for it. was'nt last winter the last chance - so having made another mess of it we once again hear - 'yes we know we have to improve but please trust us because this time we REALLY mean it blah blah blah'. Its been the same for the last 3 years and the new guy is'nt the first new guy to be brought in - they've done that before as well. this ne guys comment about pilots being overpaid shows his mindset - do you think he'll unlearn that.

about the promotions - they are there so just work it out

about the leave - your missing the point because your not wanting to listen - I did'nt say I'm not getting my exact leave bid - the point is that the company has once again been buying back leave because it was the only way it could save the programme yet others are still having trouble getting there leave in and if this is happening with 7 and 2, how can they (or you) possibly think that they can change to 5 and 3 and still operate the flying programme. And if others can do 5 and 3 without having to change the duty limit rules then why can't we

The guy who started this topic wanted an opinion - well he's got mine and he can take it or leave it - his choice

Just for once to let some facts get in the way of a good rant - why not discuss how many guys are leaving at the moment - how many pilots are we short of at the moment and guess what - in a few months of more stuffing us around you'll hear - 'we could'nt help it because of the lack of pilots but this time we REALLY REALLY mean it so please trust us'.

As for similiarities between the PC and management, your doing a good job of just slagging off any one who criticisies the company - for once why can't some one live up to spin about an 'open culture and honest culture

I'm off and I'll be voting with my feet and in case you don't care to answer the q above I think I'm behind quite a few guys with that decision

I'm really glad you are voting with your feet!

I know all the CC. There's nothing to work out!

Are you sure your not confusing this with the so-called Pilot's Panel?

You have obviously heard about 0.00001% of the discussion on FTLs. Go out and find out about the rest before you comment further.

I'm finished with this topic.

so there you have it - easyjet culture at work - hammer any one is is'nt saying how wonderful it is - this open peoiple culture is wonderful and that seems to be form one of the PC - the orange indoctrination is immense and its part of the big picture (IMHO) to destroy the pilot profession and turn us into nothing more than machine operators - sadly many are duped into going along with it

Flaps - your just not looking hard enough

cosmijewel

Leave ole Flaps to it, he hasn't a clue!

I'm getting out - it's the only way.

Flaps and his mates are flying themselves and the profession to destruction, I just know*** really appreciates it! :mad:

cosmijewel and others of the Orange order.

I'm genuinely interested in the comment regarding buying back leave to maintain the programme. Is this true?

Employment law changed quite some time ago and, as far as I'm aware, the buying back of leave is completely illegal unless undertaken as part of termination of employment.

There is a difference between being ground in the deck against your will and adding to your woes.

Comments???

Well it happened again this year just like last year and probably the year before that. price went up though to £1000 per day which makes it pretty attractive. However, trouble is that we work so bloody hard with min days off and European min leave that frankly most people I know need the leave but can't turn the money down - this amount of money shows how absolutely desperate they are and again makes a mockery of any suggestion that they can move to 5 and 3

Flaps - don't want to knock the PC becos I think we are all on the same side but don't trust the management. You still can't give me one example where they've kept an undertaking to the pilots

Just for good measure, when you negotiate this deal ( and I for one think you should'nt) I bet you'll find that the new duty rules become a contractural obligation on our part to work to them. Before you go any further just ask if the 5 and 3 is going to be a contractural obligation on the part of the company. I bet you'll get the usual 'best endeavour' and 'we'll try' and 'when operationally possible' bleating excuses but anything short of actually being obliged to do it - I don't think RW gives a toss about crew lifestyle and if you do this I think the slack it creates will eventually be used to reduce the crew number so we all just work harder and harder - correct meif I'm wrong but rumour is that the 5 and 3 is already subject to an occasional 6 and 2 - slippery slope is it not!

I'm gonna hate myself for this cos I said I was finished with this but......................

Leave was bought back in August to fill gaps in the programme.

It was subject to the requirement that each individual would still achieve at least the minimum annual days off laid down in law.

There are bucket loads of rumours about the 5/3 discussions.

Very, very few of them have any basis in fact whatsoever.

Any thoughts that it might become an occaisional 6/2 or 6/3 are complete tosh as there has been no formal proposal yet. Nothing has been put to the CC to consider and nothing has been taken by the CC to the members to vote on.

There have simply been discussions about how it might work. The CC believe it will and are doing their level best to prove it to the other side of the table.

Balpa members are hopeful - but no more than that - that there is a chance we might get it through.

As for the FTL thingy. There are even more rumours than the 5/3 saga. I have no idea where many of them come from. Maybe it's just to promote discussion but often it seems to be to try and create a hostile atmosphere for no good reason.

Nothing on the FTL matter has yet been considered worthy of even putting up for a vote by Balpa members - that says it all really.

Any new agreement must be just that - an agreement. Not a 'we aim to' or 'we would like' or 'whenever possible'.

I hope that's clear enough.

Flaps - 'leave was bought back to fill gaps in the programme'

listen to yourself man - you've been indoctrinated

you should be writing management spin newsletters - get real - leave was bought back because once again there was a bl**dy crisis and chronic crew shortage

Don't trust them - as you say nothng worthy of putting to a vote and thats why I say the bullish talk is irresponsible - they are spinning us along and if we go along this road, we will find ourselves obliged to comply with the new rules and then some other poor sods will go bust and RW will be along to tell us that market forces have changed and we need to drive our costs and that means crew numbers down and the new duty rules will be very convenient -

So you still have nothing to say of any time they've kept a commitment to us -

Strange why discussions on this forum become so aggressive.
The 6 days on going from earlies to lates is realy hard going.

I have been at the recieving end of 4 weeks of this and was burnt out.
I have worked for 2 other companies , scedule, charter amd wet lease.
I would never go back to random roster.
In my last company I went 11 weeks without a weekend off, on a random roster.
The rolling 7 day week would have prevented that happening.
The FTL is the problem.
Companies use the limits as targets without considering short and long term cumulative fatigue on an individual.

I am not based in London area but having been, understand the problems crews have.
Against a market shortage of pilots the company will have to resolve these problems or face failed buisness objectives.

Cosmijewel good luck
Flapsone I understand the thankless job you guys are doing.

I have found the crewing and rostering staff in this company very very pleasent to deal with without exception.
They have such a difficult job to do.

Ultimatly the market will decide for us and it will (barring another 911) benefit us in the short and long term

Hope I didn't come across as aggressive becos did'nt mean to - also recognise thankless job PC are trying to do but for heavens sake snap out of the cosy relationship with people that have repeatedly shown us that we can't trust them - for me, any changes to the duty rules are not welcome but if they do happen then the 5 and 3 has to be a contrcatual right and I doubt that they will agree to that so to avoid wasting time, get it on the table now

I feel like I'm wasting ny breath, but I'll try.

If I am an Orange Doctrine Spreader why am I trying to change the system we currently have? Surely, I would simply defend what we have and be done with it!!!!

The damned leave was bought back to fill gaps in the programme! The gaps were caused by loads of things, one of which was shortage of crews (which in turn was caused by many things - slow recruitment and people leaving being two). I never said anything different.

It did only affect August (and not all of it) as far as I am aware. If other months were affected I apologise but it was never made known.

Are you saying that we should not talk to the company? I agree bullish talk is irresponsible - so who's being bullish exactly?

You have either missed, or ignored, a fundemental point in these discussions. A change will only be considered by the CAA if we (Balpa members) agree (and that will done by vote).

If we don't hear anything worth voting on then nothing will change. So what's the problem?

Furthermore, any change can be reversed after 6 months if found not to be working. Another safety net.

So the company cannot make us follow any new rules we haven't agreed to and don't like - I see no danger there either.

As regards your repeated insistance on comittments from the company - what are you after?

1. They pay you every month.

This is what we are talking about. We want binding comittments, written into agreements. If no-one talks to the company about these things then they'll never happen will they?

If you want a company that responds to you clicking your fingers then do what BA and Virgin have done. 90+% Balpa membership and very good terms negotiations follow.

So many people sit in the background, waiting for someone else to do something, and then simply criticise everything they do.

They are not members of the association doing all the work, but want to know why they are not fully informed of what is going on.

If you want to have a say, and at least try and make a difference - join the club!