Best/Worse Pilot Leasing Agencies
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Best/Worse Pilot Leasing Agencies
Who is the Best/Worse Crew Leasing Agencies for Cockpit Crew?
Park/Direct/Iasco.
Contract Problems/Insurance/ Longevity/Seniority/Pay.
Park/Direct/Iasco.
Contract Problems/Insurance/ Longevity/Seniority/Pay.
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PARC usually has your salary in the bank on time however they allow the contractor a lot of "leeway" with the contract, even to the point of blatantly breaking the agreed upon conditions, without attempting to rectify persistent breaches.
To my thinking, PARC sees themselves as a buffer between the contracting company and the pilot thus allowing themselves tp play "Good Cop-Bad Cop".
On a scale of 1 through 10 I would rank them as 8.5 to 9 for on time payment.
But only a 3 for contract for support.
To my thinking, PARC sees themselves as a buffer between the contracting company and the pilot thus allowing themselves tp play "Good Cop-Bad Cop".
On a scale of 1 through 10 I would rank them as 8.5 to 9 for on time payment.
But only a 3 for contract for support.
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reply to 2BAD2SAD
ACE is the worst, major problems and the rest.??
Can I refere you to 3MTA3 and B767longhaul comments on PP, this tells its own story.
Park and Direct above average.
Iasco never worked for them, no comment.
What are the comments from other drivers to the Troll, the plot thickens.
Ron Biggles
Can I refere you to 3MTA3 and B767longhaul comments on PP, this tells its own story.
Park and Direct above average.
Iasco never worked for them, no comment.
What are the comments from other drivers to the Troll, the plot thickens.
Ron Biggles
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Its a fact of life that the agencies are a buffer, but not the buffer. If you are a contract pilot, it is unrealistic to think that your operator / agency will comply 100% with the contract. With valid reason or not, if you disrupt operations, you're setting yourself up as an undefended target. It doesn't matter if your legitimate disruption is more than offset by great financial gain, or to maintain a minimum safety level.
Pilots accept this because they are whimps. Push your weight around a bit, and there will be someone to take your place.
Even a whimp can insist on:
On time salary
Comply with duty & rest periods
Insist on current Ops Manuals and airways manuals, and see how long your contract lasts! Enough pilots out there have departed without Jepp weekly amendment to make the real pilots stand out for retaliation.
Want to save your operator a few million dollars every year, with no effort or expenditure? Forget it. You are obviously not a whimp if you try. They love whimps.
Pilots accept this because they are whimps. Push your weight around a bit, and there will be someone to take your place.
Even a whimp can insist on:
On time salary
Comply with duty & rest periods
Insist on current Ops Manuals and airways manuals, and see how long your contract lasts! Enough pilots out there have departed without Jepp weekly amendment to make the real pilots stand out for retaliation.
Want to save your operator a few million dollars every year, with no effort or expenditure? Forget it. You are obviously not a whimp if you try. They love whimps.
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We only have ourselves to blame for this.
The new standard was set when we agreed to allow these things to happen.
Now when we dont get paid correctly the complaints start.
Every Pilot should have insisted on the proper updated Jepps, fly only the maximum hours allowed and not allow management to get out of hand.
Now when we complain that we are not getting paid as our contract dictates, we are labeled as trouble makers.
Its all too often how we are reminded of how fast we can be replaced.
All of this to help the company.
Direct Personell does pay on time, everytime.
The problem is when the airline does not agree with whats in the contract between you and the agency.
We the pilots generally take the loss.
I have lost many an argument concerning this over the years.
Direct will listen to your complaint, an try to resolve the issue, but if the airline says no then thats the end of the story.
Never mind what the contact states.
The new standard was set when we agreed to allow these things to happen.
Now when we dont get paid correctly the complaints start.
Every Pilot should have insisted on the proper updated Jepps, fly only the maximum hours allowed and not allow management to get out of hand.
Now when we complain that we are not getting paid as our contract dictates, we are labeled as trouble makers.
Its all too often how we are reminded of how fast we can be replaced.
All of this to help the company.
Direct Personell does pay on time, everytime.
The problem is when the airline does not agree with whats in the contract between you and the agency.
We the pilots generally take the loss.
I have lost many an argument concerning this over the years.
Direct will listen to your complaint, an try to resolve the issue, but if the airline says no then thats the end of the story.
Never mind what the contact states.
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This must surley be the quote of this century from autoflight,
If you are a contract pilot, it is unrealistic to think that your operator / agency will comply 100% with the contract.
How would the recruiting agency or the contractor react if the pilots were to tell them the same thing? "there will be someone to take your place.
Ans so in effect, autoflight, who would appear to represent one of the recruiting agencies is effectively saying that they are willing to knowingly reduce industry standards -
"Even a whimp can insist on:
On time salary
Comply with duty & rest periods
Insist on current Ops Manuals and airways manuals, and see how long your contract lasts!".
Might we expect to see these same agencies featuring a lot more in accident investigations with that anti-safety attitude?
Possibly a new slogan for them - Breaking down the barriers.
If you are a contract pilot, it is unrealistic to think that your operator / agency will comply 100% with the contract.
How would the recruiting agency or the contractor react if the pilots were to tell them the same thing? "there will be someone to take your place.
Ans so in effect, autoflight, who would appear to represent one of the recruiting agencies is effectively saying that they are willing to knowingly reduce industry standards -
"Even a whimp can insist on:
On time salary
Comply with duty & rest periods
Insist on current Ops Manuals and airways manuals, and see how long your contract lasts!".
Might we expect to see these same agencies featuring a lot more in accident investigations with that anti-safety attitude?
Possibly a new slogan for them - Breaking down the barriers.
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If you take a job through an agency it's common to have an arrangement where the airline pays your 'per diems' or some such 'allowances' while the leasing company pays your main salary.
I've never been let down by the leasing agency (prime salary payments) but I've often had to hassle the airline accounts people for my 'allowances'.
If I was taking another contract job I'd make sure to either avoid the allowances type deal, or else get a clause saying the leasing company would pay it in event of any delay or default.
I've never been let down by the leasing agency (prime salary payments) but I've often had to hassle the airline accounts people for my 'allowances'.
If I was taking another contract job I'd make sure to either avoid the allowances type deal, or else get a clause saying the leasing company would pay it in event of any delay or default.
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Having spent 13 years contract flying, from flag carriers to small charter companies, I can confidently say that I'm not pushing the barrow for agencies.
Let's see what I've done.
Insisted on day off requirements
Delayed many flights due out of date manuals
Cancelled a flight due out of date manuals
Negotiated additional benefits during a contract
Chose to leave a contract due airline contract non-complience
Correctly interpreted higher circle minima at Busan.
Insisting on reasonable standards
Setting and maintaining your own standards is a lonley place. The very best agencies will not [cannot?] help you and also maintain their own contract with the operator.
Let's see what I've done.
Insisted on day off requirements
Delayed many flights due out of date manuals
Cancelled a flight due out of date manuals
Negotiated additional benefits during a contract
Chose to leave a contract due airline contract non-complience
Correctly interpreted higher circle minima at Busan.
Insisting on reasonable standards
Setting and maintaining your own standards is a lonley place. The very best agencies will not [cannot?] help you and also maintain their own contract with the operator.
Last edited by autoflight; 28th Jun 2003 at 13:39.
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Best/Worst
In the cutthroat market of today agencies are always fighting to keep a contract as it is their lifeline.
As a result an expat pilot is ALWAYS TO BLAME!
BECAUSE HE IS EXPENDABLE!
No court case will give you back your job or the money you have lost!
SO WE KEEP "EATIN S--T" AS LONG AS THE BUNDLE ARRIVES ON TIME.
This is what a contract job is about.
But Parc are obviously the best. They could even afford a stall at the Farn Show in the late '90, don't know about it now...
Also check this Topic: Vietnam Airlines B777 Job
As a result an expat pilot is ALWAYS TO BLAME!
BECAUSE HE IS EXPENDABLE!
No court case will give you back your job or the money you have lost!
SO WE KEEP "EATIN S--T" AS LONG AS THE BUNDLE ARRIVES ON TIME.
This is what a contract job is about.
But Parc are obviously the best. They could even afford a stall at the Farn Show in the late '90, don't know about it now...
Also check this Topic: Vietnam Airlines B777 Job
Last edited by swish266; 1st Jul 2003 at 22:46.
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Hi all,
I've worked for a few agencies over the years, apart from Parc, they are all the same!
The worst ones I saw were Direct and IAC.
Both paid on time, which is very important, but forget anything else, the airline had 'open slather' to do whatever it wanted, in their favor of course, the agent would not say anything, but would be very quick to threaten the pilot (or FE), if they received either a complaint from the airline regarding non-compliance with the signed contract, or the pilot complained directly to the agent.
And, as for per diem, ha ha ha, contracted thru Direct for Air Atlanta, saw us getting no per diem at all, even though AA was getting paid by it's contract airline for per diem.
This occured on two different contract that I'm aware of.
If you ask the agent a difficult question, they just simply ignore you!!
IAC in Sydney is one not to be involved with if you can, they simply avoid any problems when they can, or simply blame the pilot (or FE), for the problem, re
I swapped leave periods whilst with IAC, with another pilot, had it all OK'd with IAC, but they overlooked advising the airline, who subsequently tried to contact me, I was not home, and ended up getting fired for not being contactable, with IAC flatly denying they agreed to anything, and lost 3 months' seperation pay in the process!! (they simply called it 'conduct unbecoming').
Cheers
I've worked for a few agencies over the years, apart from Parc, they are all the same!
The worst ones I saw were Direct and IAC.
Both paid on time, which is very important, but forget anything else, the airline had 'open slather' to do whatever it wanted, in their favor of course, the agent would not say anything, but would be very quick to threaten the pilot (or FE), if they received either a complaint from the airline regarding non-compliance with the signed contract, or the pilot complained directly to the agent.
And, as for per diem, ha ha ha, contracted thru Direct for Air Atlanta, saw us getting no per diem at all, even though AA was getting paid by it's contract airline for per diem.
This occured on two different contract that I'm aware of.
If you ask the agent a difficult question, they just simply ignore you!!
IAC in Sydney is one not to be involved with if you can, they simply avoid any problems when they can, or simply blame the pilot (or FE), for the problem, re
I swapped leave periods whilst with IAC, with another pilot, had it all OK'd with IAC, but they overlooked advising the airline, who subsequently tried to contact me, I was not home, and ended up getting fired for not being contactable, with IAC flatly denying they agreed to anything, and lost 3 months' seperation pay in the process!! (they simply called it 'conduct unbecoming').
Cheers
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I do confirm what reported from Flight Detent :
If you ask the agent a difficult question, they just simply ignore you!!
I've never been employeed by Crew Agencies, but I requested informations to Parc regarding a published position.
Due to rumors hearded from collegues I asked them very clear some clarifications about anticipated end of contract, no payment from company, etc... NO ANSWER... and Parc is considered to be THE BEST !!!
I hope to maintain my job in the company....
By
If you ask the agent a difficult question, they just simply ignore you!!
I've never been employeed by Crew Agencies, but I requested informations to Parc regarding a published position.
Due to rumors hearded from collegues I asked them very clear some clarifications about anticipated end of contract, no payment from company, etc... NO ANSWER... and Parc is considered to be THE BEST !!!
I hope to maintain my job in the company....
By
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Flight Detent, you obviously been seriously harmed by IAC, and that is a shame. I hope you gain employment elsewhere soon, with a more reputable company.
Best regards to you, and hope the winter in Brisbane is'nt too harsh!
Best regards to you, and hope the winter in Brisbane is'nt too harsh!
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My experience over the past several years with a number of these outfits, and most have been named to this point in previous postings, has been abissmal. I'd say most of them are worthless and offer us nothing we can't do for ourselves.
Firstly, they are all dogs chasing the same cat. Cleverly disguised, job postings are kept as closely guarded secrets on more occasions than not. Who do they think they're kidding???
e.g., I find it almost laughable that two or three agencies will advertise for Airbus or B??? crews and when you ring up they tell you nothing about the job and compensation only to be more interested in your currency.
Not wishing to sound like a whiner but after several months of unemployment how does one stay current without spending mucho dineros??? Something we all love to do with no income, right? Especially having spent several months without an income.
After several months, they blow you off. After a year or more, they treat you like you don't even know how to fly??? So how are they helping you find a job??? THEY AREN'T!!!
This sentiment (MY sentiment) is based purely on the numerous calls, faxes, discussions and unreturned phone calls I've made to many of these same 'agencies' over the years and the longer it goes on the worse it gets.
It's not like I don't have bags of experience and at least minimal skills. If you are current on any type for which they are recruiting , FINE!
If you ARE typed but NOT current, on yer bike!! Get lost. Sod off!
I think everyone today is conversant and knowledgeable about the present state of our industry so I won't prattle on about that.
Experience means nothing to these agencies unless you are current. Experience means nothing to the airlines they recruit for unless you are current. But when I see requirements posted for some of these jobs that are way less than the qualifications and experience I have, I start to pop some emotional circuit breakers.
Is it me? or do others out there feel the same???
China Airlines - Type Rated, time on type, current on type, under the age of 46 (CB pops) AND they give you the full course when you join. Okay, someone explain that to me....AND the agencies go along with it? Sounds strictly about money to me and nothing more. No rhyme or reason. Just money.
Then there are the Frozen ATPLs. Good luck to all, I say, but what in heavens name are we looking at. Qualifications and experience or just a warm body that is current to fill a seat so Agency XYZ gets their fee??? (no need to answer that one)
No. I don't think the airlines are doing themselves any favours by taking the positions they are and I certainly don't think the Agencies use sensibility and logic when offering to recruit for these airlines.
In recent months some of the packages offered have been outrageous. If you point it out to them, they're quick to point out that that's what the present market can bear. Well, surely, what we do as pilots has a bottom line. Some of us are at least in a position to turn it down (to our own peril mind) and turn them down we should.
The worse it gets the more I like to think, stuff 'em. If they can't afford to be in business let 'em go out of business. If I can't afford to stay current it's obvious to me at least that I won't be getting the work I seek. For the costs of maintaining my own licence, qualifications, and recency it gets to a point where it just isn't worth what's on offer. As much as I love flying it just gets worse and worse no matter in what direction I look and none of these agencies are doing any of us any favours. Or, very few. Believe me.
I no longer use the agencies because I have had greater success by using Flitejobs.com and my own brain with some networking and internet skills.
The worse agency out there is __________ (you fill in the blank).
You can have them if they work for you. They sure haven't done much for me.
Firstly, they are all dogs chasing the same cat. Cleverly disguised, job postings are kept as closely guarded secrets on more occasions than not. Who do they think they're kidding???
e.g., I find it almost laughable that two or three agencies will advertise for Airbus or B??? crews and when you ring up they tell you nothing about the job and compensation only to be more interested in your currency.
Not wishing to sound like a whiner but after several months of unemployment how does one stay current without spending mucho dineros??? Something we all love to do with no income, right? Especially having spent several months without an income.
After several months, they blow you off. After a year or more, they treat you like you don't even know how to fly??? So how are they helping you find a job??? THEY AREN'T!!!
This sentiment (MY sentiment) is based purely on the numerous calls, faxes, discussions and unreturned phone calls I've made to many of these same 'agencies' over the years and the longer it goes on the worse it gets.
It's not like I don't have bags of experience and at least minimal skills. If you are current on any type for which they are recruiting , FINE!
If you ARE typed but NOT current, on yer bike!! Get lost. Sod off!
I think everyone today is conversant and knowledgeable about the present state of our industry so I won't prattle on about that.
Experience means nothing to these agencies unless you are current. Experience means nothing to the airlines they recruit for unless you are current. But when I see requirements posted for some of these jobs that are way less than the qualifications and experience I have, I start to pop some emotional circuit breakers.
Is it me? or do others out there feel the same???
China Airlines - Type Rated, time on type, current on type, under the age of 46 (CB pops) AND they give you the full course when you join. Okay, someone explain that to me....AND the agencies go along with it? Sounds strictly about money to me and nothing more. No rhyme or reason. Just money.
Then there are the Frozen ATPLs. Good luck to all, I say, but what in heavens name are we looking at. Qualifications and experience or just a warm body that is current to fill a seat so Agency XYZ gets their fee??? (no need to answer that one)
No. I don't think the airlines are doing themselves any favours by taking the positions they are and I certainly don't think the Agencies use sensibility and logic when offering to recruit for these airlines.
In recent months some of the packages offered have been outrageous. If you point it out to them, they're quick to point out that that's what the present market can bear. Well, surely, what we do as pilots has a bottom line. Some of us are at least in a position to turn it down (to our own peril mind) and turn them down we should.
The worse it gets the more I like to think, stuff 'em. If they can't afford to be in business let 'em go out of business. If I can't afford to stay current it's obvious to me at least that I won't be getting the work I seek. For the costs of maintaining my own licence, qualifications, and recency it gets to a point where it just isn't worth what's on offer. As much as I love flying it just gets worse and worse no matter in what direction I look and none of these agencies are doing any of us any favours. Or, very few. Believe me.
I no longer use the agencies because I have had greater success by using Flitejobs.com and my own brain with some networking and internet skills.
The worse agency out there is __________ (you fill in the blank).
You can have them if they work for you. They sure haven't done much for me.
Person Of Interest
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IASCO was great, always stood behind us when disputes over working conditions/FAR intepretations arose. Paid on time/early by direct deposit, with pay stub following in the post...
Brookfield Int'l has never let me down over the course of 3 different contracts...
Brookfield Int'l has never let me down over the course of 3 different contracts...
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Have to agree with the negative comments on IAC in Australia. A good friend recently fell victim to a scam. This involved being recruited for a ferry flight from Norway to Australia.
When my friend found out there was no ferry flight and that it was a scam, he advised IAC who then didn't want to know him, pay any of his expenses in getting to Europe or even get him home! He much later managed to recover some costs from them but it took a lot of legwork, visiting solicitors and the threat of legal action before IAC would even acknowledge they were liable for something.
Unbelievable for a ‘reputable’ recruitment agency to behave in such a way. Sure, IAC weren’t getting paid for the ferry flight, however I would have thought they would have been responsible for getting him home.
When my friend found out there was no ferry flight and that it was a scam, he advised IAC who then didn't want to know him, pay any of his expenses in getting to Europe or even get him home! He much later managed to recover some costs from them but it took a lot of legwork, visiting solicitors and the threat of legal action before IAC would even acknowledge they were liable for something.
Unbelievable for a ‘reputable’ recruitment agency to behave in such a way. Sure, IAC weren’t getting paid for the ferry flight, however I would have thought they would have been responsible for getting him home.
