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Agencies Rishworth

Old 22nd Nov 2002, 03:04
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Unhappy Agencies Rishworth

As an unemployed pilot I have been browsing the Web Sites of
some of the Recruitment Agencies. I went to the Rishworth web
page and read through the vacancies page, none suitable for me
though. I read with horror that they were advertising for MD83
Training Captains. Basic salary US$3,500 and Per Diems US$1200
for 80 hours. meaning that they take a big cut on your Overtime
as well. Why are these Agencies doing this to us. Why are they
exploiting the fact that there are a lot of unemployed pilots.
This is a disgusting salary and the fact that they had the audacity
to put it for all to see. Well Mr Rishworth or Mr Priest, the worm
will turn as it always does in Aviation, and us unemployed pilots
will remember those Agencies that considered our plight, and
tried to take care of us in our hour of need. We will go to the professionals such as PARC and whoever else may be around. May you be ashamed of yourselves.

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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 11:57
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Is it me or is everyone involved in our industry trying to force our standard of living down.

When we turnup to travel with a staff ticket, Not only do the company only issue economy tickets to take us halfway around the world, But the checkin staff push us to one side until boarding has been completed like excess baggage.

We are asked to take the local bus between airports after a duty.

And any time we complain we are told there is a long list of guys waiting to take our place, if we donít like it go.

Why do we put up with this, Because we are only as strong as the weakest .

What can we do. Stand together.

If the company is not willing to show respect then why not take it out of the companies hands.

Check the passenger list, If there are colleagues from our industry on board treat them like VIPís. I do and if we all do we can start to take something back .We can be in control.

Maybe Danny can help by setting up a section where we can log our travel plans.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 12:36
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Finally, someone who sees what is going on in the Industry.
I read the Gulf Air threads as well. Still this happened 10 years
ago and then there was a complete turn around. I agree the Airlines and the Agencies are trying to force down our standard of living. We have all worked hard to become professional people, Lets not forget when things turn around again those that took advantage of us.... and of course those good Agencies that lowered their own commissions so that we could take home a liveable package.
There must be some that are good....

Regading Gulf Air weren`t they paying their L10-11 Captains
the same salary that they are offering their B767 Captains today
some 20 years hence.???
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 14:55
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Thumbs up

'''''Check the passenger list, If there are colleagues from our industry on board treat them like VIPís. I do and if we all do we can start to take something back .We can be in control.

Maybe Danny can help by setting up a section where we can log our travel plans.''''''

What a good idea Icemanal...watchamacallit...
How about it Danny?
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 15:05
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It is called "supply and demand" mirifly, and NOT likely to change anytime soon, five years give or take.
Just because YOU went out and obtained your professional ratings, and your timing was lousy, does NOT mean that the airline world owes you a generous living.
And, as the MD83 is not a high capacity wide-body type, it will not attract the higher expat salaries.

Welcome to the REAL world.

PS: Some of the recently furloughed Continental pilots have personally told me that they do not expect to be recalled for six to seven years. As they are experienced in type we are likely to say...welcome aboard.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 16:08
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Actually 411A its called "demand and supply" at any price as long
as the agency gets its commission, Perhaps it is time that you were furloughed anyway over 1500 replies can`t have been doing too much flying.

By the way I am fortunate enough not to be type-rated on the
MD83, but it doesn`t stop me feeling angry at the fact that an
agency can have the audacity to offer that salary to a qualifed
Captain, or should I say Line Training Captain ( they can`t actually decide if its Line Training Captain or Check Airman but whatever you are you get the same salary........Captain or a Check Airman, but anyway its an insult . Forget supply and demand. And you really believe we have to wait five years before
decent salaries will be paid, I think not.....perhaps you should pop
over to this neck of the woods..



Actually 411A its called "demand and supply" at any price as long
as the agency gets its commission, Perhaps it is time that you were furloughed anyway over 1500 replies can`t have been doing too much flying.

By the way I am fortunate enough not to be type-rated on the
MD83, but it doesn`t stop me feeling angry at the fact that an
agency can have the audacity to offer that salary to a qualifed
Captain, or should I say Line Training Captain ( they can`t actually decide if its Line Training Captain or Check Airman but whatever you are you get the same salary........Captain or a Check Airman, but anyway its an insult . Forget supply and demand. And you really believe we have to wait five years before
decent salaries will be paid, I think not.....perhaps you should pop
over to this neck of the woods..
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 18:09
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The truth of the matter is that if Rishworth can sell the idea to the client airline that there are people out there who will work for this kind of money, then they get the job of recruiting.

The other agencies probably told the airline to 'get a life' and knew damn well that there would be few takers.

It is not the agencies that decide the salary package but the client airline, and they will always go for the lowest that they are told that they can get away with. Rishworth may be guilty of 'helping' this process, but I suspect that they are probably keen to just get any work they can along with all the other agencies.

Supply and demand is true, but when you are supplying pilots who will be miserable and demoralised during their time on site, and probably run off at a moments notice if a better job arises, then it pay's you as an agent to get the best deal, best accomodation and keep in constant touch with your crews during the contract. If the pilot performs badly that reflects on the future chances of the agency getting more work, so it's in the agency's interests to keep you happy and make sure you see the contract out.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 20:36
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The big word is RESPECT, and I spell it out loud.
The airline industry has no more respect for their employees and
specifically 'overpaid' pilots. Now a days it's the share holders that count in this more and more competitive world. I think it is a great idea to give our collegues first class treatment when they fly with us.
And by the way, a guy who flies a Cessna 411A should make his comments on the general aviation forum.

Regards, GP76
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 21:10
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OTOH, gulfpilot76, having personally worked in the middle-east for over 20 years, on BIG aeroplanes (SE Asia before that), you clearly have NO idea about....supply and demand.
IF you hit the crest, the big bucks flow in...if not, SOL.

With your attitude, "respect" will be non-existant, you can be sure....absolutely!

Last edited by 411A; 22nd Nov 2002 at 21:48.
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Old 22nd Nov 2002, 23:28
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Contractor agencies usually just add their own profit margin to whatever pay rate they can negotiate with the airline. Small agencies like Rishworth don't have a lot of clout, but I know from personal experience they do the best they can.
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Old 23rd Nov 2002, 02:33
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Wink

411A you seem to have a very condescending attitude to everyone other than yourself, because you`ve obviously been
here there and everywhere and made it big and earned your money do you think that the rest of us deserve to be treated the
way we are for the moment. RESPECT, sorry Sir don`think you know the meaning of the word.

Finally without any DIS-repsect to you I think it is you that should
be "welcomed to REAL world"..............
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Old 23rd Nov 2002, 03:20
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Not condescending mirifly, just realistic.
The company employes you, pays your salary...and hopefully appreciates your services.
In return, you hope their check doesn't bounce higher than a kite.

Thirty years ago, many larger (and surprisingly, a few smaller) carriers had a paternalistic attitude...not anymore.

Years ago worked for a SE asian carrier that was small, but growing and "seemed" to genuinely appreciate the expats services, especially if you were in a line training capacity, as I was.
Recently met one of the F/O's that I trained on thje 707, now a senior 747 Captain and he mentioned that everyone is ..."just a number now, period".

Sad, but true, and not likely to change anytime soon.
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Old 23rd Nov 2002, 22:25
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The problem is not just too many unemployed pilots.....but too many agencies too. As contracts arise, these agencies try to undercut each other to get the contract...................and at the end of the foodchain the poor pilot is the one left to accept whatever lousy deal is on offer.
A classic case is the Hainan airlines contract in China. It seems that every three weeks a new agency is seeking pilots for this deal, but in reality all they have done is approach Hainan with an offer to undercut the previous agency. Every agency has exactly the same pilots on their books....................it just remains to be seen which agency will get the contract down to $1 a month!
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Old 24th Nov 2002, 12:04
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Hi Chimbu Warrier.... you could be right here, but I suppose in the
good days there was a need for all these Agencies. But I know
that Rishworth really don`t give a stuff for the pilots as long as
they get the contract. Going back to this MD83 job advertised.
Do you know why they split the Per Diems and the Gross Pay ??
Well they will have an Invoice rate for 80 hours including the Per
Diems. Therefore if the pilot works 90 hours Bingo the pilot only gets overtime paid on the Gross, but Rishworth will get it on the
total Invoice rate. So they are doubly screwing the pilot........

But they are not all bad, I know that PARC won`t take this nonsense, thats why you don`t see to many jobs on their websites. I was recently offered a position from another agency
in the UK. Contractair, nice lady, she came back to me a few days
later to say that she wouldn`t sign the contract with the Airline as
it was an insult as to what they wanted to pay the pilot. She
even had the decency to tell me who the Agency was who had
undercut her, so that I could approach them if I really needed the
job. I appreciated that. That was honest stuff, but us guys will
remember those that looked after us or tried to do their best for
us when times were hard.

We should blacklist some of these guys......... I know who I would
work for in the future and I know who I will politely tell to get
Stuffed...........


Anyone brave enough to start !!!!
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Old 25th Nov 2002, 06:17
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At the end of the day...low-ball agencies are only successful becase our own colleagues are willing to sign their ridiculous contracts..sad really..
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Old 2nd Dec 2002, 01:24
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I don't understand why there are so few discussions on topics like this on PPRUNE.
Agencies reputations, contracts etc are important matters for us pilots and this is a marvelous tool.
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