Ascend Airways has cut its Pilot Workforce.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 108
Likes: 38
From: EU
Zen Creampie
I have read several different threads in which you look forward to the demise of ACMI companies.
It is becoming increasingly obvious you have no idea what these companies do and why there is a need for them.
You wishing that hundreds iid not thousands of people are put out of a job is despicable and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Looking at your previous posts, you are probably a joy to fly with, however I wouldn't bet too much on you actually being in any seat.
I have read several different threads in which you look forward to the demise of ACMI companies.
It is becoming increasingly obvious you have no idea what these companies do and why there is a need for them.
You wishing that hundreds iid not thousands of people are put out of a job is despicable and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Looking at your previous posts, you are probably a joy to fly with, however I wouldn't bet too much on you actually being in any seat.
Several reasons that closed, one of them was not competitive to other ACMI operators that offer poor T&C, cutting corners, hiring cheap labor from third countries, P2F schemes etc etc
So, people with skills won't be out of job for long if companies who drop the standards get out of business.
I don't think anyone is happy that nowadays pilot salaries are comparable with McDonalds salaries
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 299
Likes: 183
From: newbury
I was also flying for an ACMI that went bust, all of the pilots found jobs relatively quickly.
Several reasons that closed, one of them was not competitive to other ACMI operators that offer poor T&C, cutting corners, hiring cheap labor from third countries, P2F schemes etc etc
So, people with skills won't be out of job for long if companies who drop the standards get out of business.
I don't think anyone is happy that nowadays pilot salaries are comparable with McDonalds salaries
Several reasons that closed, one of them was not competitive to other ACMI operators that offer poor T&C, cutting corners, hiring cheap labor from third countries, P2F schemes etc etc
So, people with skills won't be out of job for long if companies who drop the standards get out of business.
I don't think anyone is happy that nowadays pilot salaries are comparable with McDonalds salaries
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 512
Likes: 829
From: UK
You would also struggle to find Ascend doing Pay to Fly, Poor T&Cs, cutting corners or hiring cheap labour from abroad.
They have cadets who earn a salary equal to other FOs, the T&Cs are industry standard, they are UK based so cutting corners is not an option, nor would their clients allow it and pilots from abroad are on the same package as UK pilots and they have to have the same licences etc.
So Ascend bringing down the industry is laughable if you weren't so keen to multiple pilots looking for work.
They have cadets who earn a salary equal to other FOs, the T&Cs are industry standard, they are UK based so cutting corners is not an option, nor would their clients allow it and pilots from abroad are on the same package as UK pilots and they have to have the same licences etc.
So Ascend bringing down the industry is laughable if you weren't so keen to multiple pilots looking for work.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 52
Likes: 10
From: Manchester
What some short sighted immature unintelligent poster fail to understand is that if and when an airline fails, it throws pilots onto the pile of unemployed pilots looking for work. Whether you agree or disagree with terms and conditions at any ACMIs, what you don’t want is anyone prepared to work on less terms and conditions than you, looking for work and applying to your company. This would only hold back your company needing to improve your terms and conditions. Stop being pathetic and wishing others in need of a job. It’s supply and demands and the only thing you can blame is those companies that use ACMIs. Everyone wants cheap flights and holidays, blame them as well.
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 118
Likes: 7
From: italy
are we going to get your real name revealed soon? Hehehehe. Food for thought .
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 202
Likes: 69
From: on the edge.
LOL here we go again...hopefully they will be done soon.
https://www.brasilaviation.info/avio...s-no-pa%C3%ADs
https://www.brasilaviation.info/avio...s-no-pa%C3%ADs
Joined: Apr 2026
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1
Likes: 2
From: Stansted
Ascend Airways descent.
Cabin crew courses cut, cabin crew fired.
All non essential sims cut, contractors fired.
ATO closed.
Part time staff fired.
Fuel paid for cash or card.
No work after next week.
Cash reserves less than 2 weeks.
Disciplinaries for going sick.
Bullying for going fatigued.
All non essential sims cut, contractors fired.
ATO closed.
Part time staff fired.
Fuel paid for cash or card.
No work after next week.
Cash reserves less than 2 weeks.
Disciplinaries for going sick.
Bullying for going fatigued.
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
Likes: 2
From: London
Training Bonds in Airline Insolvency – Real-World Experience?
General question (not specific to any current situation) — for those who’ve been through previous airline downturns or insolvencies:
In practice, what tends to happen to pilot training bonds?
Are they ever actively pursued or even sold on by administrators, or do they usually fall away given the complexity?
Also, for pilots who happened to leave during those periods, was there any noticeable difference in how bonds were treated (e.g. more likely to be enforced pre-collapse vs not pursued after)?
Interested in real-world experiences rather than legal theory
In practice, what tends to happen to pilot training bonds?
Are they ever actively pursued or even sold on by administrators, or do they usually fall away given the complexity?
Also, for pilots who happened to leave during those periods, was there any noticeable difference in how bonds were treated (e.g. more likely to be enforced pre-collapse vs not pursued after)?
Interested in real-world experiences rather than legal theory
Joined: Jan 2025
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 168
Likes: 144
From: Mars
Active airlines have a serious uphill battle trying to recover bonds when pilots leave, never mind the liquidators of defunct airlines.
They are so unenforceable it is a large reason why many airlines hiring at cadet level just demand upfront payment for type ratings. The cadets aren’t all hanging around post 500 hrs and recovering the money is a lost cause.
They are so unenforceable it is a large reason why many airlines hiring at cadet level just demand upfront payment for type ratings. The cadets aren’t all hanging around post 500 hrs and recovering the money is a lost cause.
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 28
From: Glasgow
I think that is extremely poor advice. Bonds are not a "lost cause" and anyone reading this thinks they are, you are misleading them. There may be loopholes and mistakes to be exploited in different airline contracts but as a broad-brush statement it has to be challenged.
Joined: Jan 2025
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 168
Likes: 144
From: Mars
I think that is extremely poor advice. Bonds are not a "lost cause" and anyone reading this thinks they are, you are misleading them. There may be loopholes and mistakes to be exploited in different airline contracts but as a broad-brush statement it has to be challenged.
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
Likes: 75
From: Oxford
Even it we take your opinion as gospel, the airline business is a very small world. You may find offers of employment disappear, when your new airline starts with your referencing. As happened to a good friend of mine
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 512
Likes: 829
From: UK
I have also heard people say that airlines don't chase the bond.
However I have also heard the opposite and seem to recall a poster on these forums warning of the situation they find themselves in being chased by a previous employer.
You could chance it, but there is an integrity thing here.
If the airline survives and there are many many good people working immensely hard to keep it afloat, then jumping ship now may be a very unpopular move and you would loose the benefit of a job and hours building.
Good luck, but remember it is a signed contract and enforcing it is just a matter of 30mins work on a website and a small fee, a CCJ is not something you want.
However I have also heard the opposite and seem to recall a poster on these forums warning of the situation they find themselves in being chased by a previous employer.
You could chance it, but there is an integrity thing here.
If the airline survives and there are many many good people working immensely hard to keep it afloat, then jumping ship now may be a very unpopular move and you would loose the benefit of a job and hours building.
Good luck, but remember it is a signed contract and enforcing it is just a matter of 30mins work on a website and a small fee, a CCJ is not something you want.
Joined: Jan 2025
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 168
Likes: 144
From: Mars
You enter into a legally binding contract with the airline, I don’t see how it’s unenforceable, airlines are able to seek compensation via civil methods, just as any other company can.
Even it we take your opinion as gospel, the airline business is a very small world. You may find offers of employment disappear, when your new airline starts with your referencing. As happened to a good friend of mine
Even it we take your opinion as gospel, the airline business is a very small world. You may find offers of employment disappear, when your new airline starts with your referencing. As happened to a good friend of mine
When even Ryanair concede defeat, and as a result reintroduce upfront TR payments, sorry but the bonds are all but unrecoverable. At my first airline I had a semi office role and in discussion with the HR director over lunch, they told me upfront there is practically no recourse for them when pilots break bond agreements. Hence why they hate funding ratings and will charge if they think they'll still get the candidates they want.
Regarding loss of trust and it being a small world, I would agree actually. However, that is a different conversation entirely from the one Bombardier asked about. Even then, I have seen multiple bond breakers encounter little obstacles in their career progression .. I am sure not everyone is so lucky though.
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
Likes: 2
From: London
Out of interest – source of experience?
I have also heard people say that airlines don't chase the bond.
However I have also heard the opposite and seem to recall a poster on these forums warning of the situation they find themselves in being chased by a previous employer.
You could chance it, but there is an integrity thing here.
If the airline survives and there are many many good people working immensely hard to keep it afloat, then jumping ship now may be a very unpopular move and you would loose the benefit of a job and hours building.
Good luck, but remember it is a signed contract and enforcing it is just a matter of 30mins work on a website and a small fee, a CCJ is not something you want.
However I have also heard the opposite and seem to recall a poster on these forums warning of the situation they find themselves in being chased by a previous employer.
You could chance it, but there is an integrity thing here.
If the airline survives and there are many many good people working immensely hard to keep it afloat, then jumping ship now may be a very unpopular move and you would loose the benefit of a job and hours building.
Good luck, but remember it is a signed contract and enforcing it is just a matter of 30mins work on a website and a small fee, a CCJ is not something you want.
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 512
Likes: 829
From: UK
I have no skin in this game to be fair.
I am only going on what has gone on what I have read and from experience of litigation and business law.
There are many people who profess to know what they are talking about and giving one line answers.
However ask a corporate lawyer and you will not get a simple answer.
Also business law is how each company reads the situation and their expectations as to how they will pursue a potential claim.
Ascend will potentially have bigger problems to deal with at the moment.
I am only going on what has gone on what I have read and from experience of litigation and business law.
There are many people who profess to know what they are talking about and giving one line answers.
However ask a corporate lawyer and you will not get a simple answer.
Also business law is how each company reads the situation and their expectations as to how they will pursue a potential claim.
Ascend will potentially have bigger problems to deal with at the moment.
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
Likes: 75
From: Oxford
Let's not forget Bombardier was actually asking about the case regarding when an airline is insolvent and whether the administrators would still chase the bond. That is a flat no, or do you disagree too? Would PWC be chasing pilots for bonds?
When even Ryanair concede defeat, and as a result reintroduce upfront TR payments, sorry but the bonds are all but unrecoverable. At my first airline I had a semi office role and in discussion with the HR director over lunch, they told me upfront there is practically no recourse for them when pilots break bond agreements. Hence why they hate funding ratings and will charge if they think they'll still get the candidates they want.
Regarding loss of trust and it being a small world, I would agree actually. However, that is a different conversation entirely from the one Bombardier asked about. Even then, I have seen multiple bond breakers encounter little obstacles in their career progression .. I am sure not everyone is so lucky though.
When even Ryanair concede defeat, and as a result reintroduce upfront TR payments, sorry but the bonds are all but unrecoverable. At my first airline I had a semi office role and in discussion with the HR director over lunch, they told me upfront there is practically no recourse for them when pilots break bond agreements. Hence why they hate funding ratings and will charge if they think they'll still get the candidates they want.
Regarding loss of trust and it being a small world, I would agree actually. However, that is a different conversation entirely from the one Bombardier asked about. Even then, I have seen multiple bond breakers encounter little obstacles in their career progression .. I am sure not everyone is so lucky though.
I very much doubt the bond would be enforceable if the airline went bankrupt, as the pilot has lost the job, through no fault of their own.
As far as my basic understanding on the matter goes, no training bond can be recovered in that situation
Joined: Apr 2026
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 5
Likes: 6
From: Uk
Seems like ascend has become descend
Looks like the current climate plus the numerous safety issues have done for ascend.
Not only the incident involving departing the runway far too late at Luton last April (as reported on the BBC yesterday), but the well known and hushed up issue with fuel cut off at Stansted last September (their very own Air India moment!) seem to have combined with their inability to find work to ensure that they close down on Monday.
The crew WhatsApp group chats has been in overdrive with talk of a last supper in India tomorrow, as well as the report that their spicejet partner announced that ops cease on the 26th have left crew confused and in an information vacuum as HQ batten down the hatches. Apparently the only comment from the boss (nepo baby of the Titan owner) has been to apologise about the situation, without confirming whether the company will carry on or shut up shop.
No doubt things will play out over the next 72 hours, the only hope is that ascend have enough cash to pay staff on Monday.
One of their third hand 737 aircraft left EMA on Friday, and after a brief stop in CAI was heading East. Is this a mission to pick up stranded crew on MCT and BOM? Who knows, but things might become clearer once it's destination is known.
More to follow!
Not only the incident involving departing the runway far too late at Luton last April (as reported on the BBC yesterday), but the well known and hushed up issue with fuel cut off at Stansted last September (their very own Air India moment!) seem to have combined with their inability to find work to ensure that they close down on Monday.
The crew WhatsApp group chats has been in overdrive with talk of a last supper in India tomorrow, as well as the report that their spicejet partner announced that ops cease on the 26th have left crew confused and in an information vacuum as HQ batten down the hatches. Apparently the only comment from the boss (nepo baby of the Titan owner) has been to apologise about the situation, without confirming whether the company will carry on or shut up shop.
No doubt things will play out over the next 72 hours, the only hope is that ascend have enough cash to pay staff on Monday.
One of their third hand 737 aircraft left EMA on Friday, and after a brief stop in CAI was heading East. Is this a mission to pick up stranded crew on MCT and BOM? Who knows, but things might become clearer once it's destination is known.
More to follow!
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: LONDON