Future at Virgin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Fukui : Japan
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The bmi guys are leaving 'cos the LHR operation is about to be 'downsized'. Those at the lower end of the seniority list could be 'surplus to requirements' and either made redundant, or re-fleeted & offered positions in the regions. Cash is not the deciding factor here, morale is all-time low.
What with rumours of an ALLIANCE (read LUFTHANSA) buyout looming, and the Final Salary Pension Scheme in jeopardy, you can understand the desire to get out before the current supply of reasonable alternatives dries up.
What with rumours of an ALLIANCE (read LUFTHANSA) buyout looming, and the Final Salary Pension Scheme in jeopardy, you can understand the desire to get out before the current supply of reasonable alternatives dries up.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Dunhovrin
You must be refering to some others leaving easy for Virgin.
None of the six I know were cadets...they'd be upset to be called cadets!! (I don't think any of the 5 cadets went to easy anyway? I might be wrong!).
Of the guys leaving easy that I know some have 10 years plus experience and all have flown with a variety of airlines - draw your own conclusions from their descision to rejoin Virgin.
As they say, the grass is always greener.....
You must be refering to some others leaving easy for Virgin.
None of the six I know were cadets...they'd be upset to be called cadets!! (I don't think any of the 5 cadets went to easy anyway? I might be wrong!).
Of the guys leaving easy that I know some have 10 years plus experience and all have flown with a variety of airlines - draw your own conclusions from their descision to rejoin Virgin.
As they say, the grass is always greener.....
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Manchester,uk
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I'm one of the "Easy six" and would like to clear up a few misconceptions.
1:Yes we were Sun drivers, none were cadets and none did a few months "in the bunk" before redundancy.
2:All offers were for full time positions. No one would have given up a full time position for a part time contract.
3: The basic Pay and Pension benefits at Easy are considerably worse than those offered at VS. One point worth mentioning is that the VS scales are incremental whereas the Easy scale is fixed and is in fact dereasing in real terms.
4: Long time to command. Thats a decision that we have all had to make. However any one contemplating going to easy as an FO should be aware that commands are in the gift of certain individuals, and can be put off indefinatley if you are perceived as not being "orange".This can be for reasons as diverse as refusing to compromise CAP 371 to not wearing a tie in the crew room.
Promises are made and broken very easily. No pun intended.
5: Lifestyle. Its appalling. No one is under any illusion that VS is the promised land. We've all worked there before. However we have all chosen to return and that I think says a great deal.
BTW we did around 3-4 trips per week on Sun usually to Greece/Turkey/Canaries in the summer and 2-3 (sometimes less) in the winter to Spain/Canaries and Israel. It was a great life, people enjoyed it most of the time and moaned as per usual.We all joined VS because we wanted to fly LH at the end of the day.
Some on unpaid leave have found other opportunities and all the best to them. The returning crew that I am in contact with are counting the days until we can get away from Easyjet. And yes, in 12 months we'll all be moaning about Virgin!.
1:Yes we were Sun drivers, none were cadets and none did a few months "in the bunk" before redundancy.
2:All offers were for full time positions. No one would have given up a full time position for a part time contract.
3: The basic Pay and Pension benefits at Easy are considerably worse than those offered at VS. One point worth mentioning is that the VS scales are incremental whereas the Easy scale is fixed and is in fact dereasing in real terms.
4: Long time to command. Thats a decision that we have all had to make. However any one contemplating going to easy as an FO should be aware that commands are in the gift of certain individuals, and can be put off indefinatley if you are perceived as not being "orange".This can be for reasons as diverse as refusing to compromise CAP 371 to not wearing a tie in the crew room.
Promises are made and broken very easily. No pun intended.
5: Lifestyle. Its appalling. No one is under any illusion that VS is the promised land. We've all worked there before. However we have all chosen to return and that I think says a great deal.
BTW we did around 3-4 trips per week on Sun usually to Greece/Turkey/Canaries in the summer and 2-3 (sometimes less) in the winter to Spain/Canaries and Israel. It was a great life, people enjoyed it most of the time and moaned as per usual.We all joined VS because we wanted to fly LH at the end of the day.
Some on unpaid leave have found other opportunities and all the best to them. The returning crew that I am in contact with are counting the days until we can get away from Easyjet. And yes, in 12 months we'll all be moaning about Virgin!.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Oakland-California
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Flying for any kind of money are fun in my book unless your required to stay at the airport more than 16 hours a day 7 days a week.
In the company I work with we have quite a few ppl complaining about salary, and Ill admit the pay is low.
But I knew that coming in, so I dont really see any reason to complain about it afterwards.
In the company I work with we have quite a few ppl complaining about salary, and Ill admit the pay is low.
But I knew that coming in, so I dont really see any reason to complain about it afterwards.
OK Chaps:
Ref easy6: I was wrong - sorry about that. Indeed your return to the fold almost makes me glad I biffed the easy sim ride last month.
Ref Bmi pay: I was right. 2 days ago swapped pay slips with a mate who's a 2 year F/O on 73s at bmi. He took home £300 more than me last month. His co pension contributions were 8%, not 16% but doing the maths he's still better off than me. (And he doesn't have a wife and kids to neglect...).
However comma he's sniffing elsewhere because of the re-structure and the **** roster and tw@ts in management. Indeed he's looking at easyJet..(back to square 1).
So it seems to me it's all the same wherever you are. And here's my cunning plan. Let's all sit tight for 6 months and stop playing musical seats. Then the recruitment intrays will empty and the companies will have to treat us with the respect we deserve 'cos there's no one to replace us (apart from Serbs, Crabs and other ne'er-do-wells..) Hohum back to the pub.
Ref easy6: I was wrong - sorry about that. Indeed your return to the fold almost makes me glad I biffed the easy sim ride last month.
Ref Bmi pay: I was right. 2 days ago swapped pay slips with a mate who's a 2 year F/O on 73s at bmi. He took home £300 more than me last month. His co pension contributions were 8%, not 16% but doing the maths he's still better off than me. (And he doesn't have a wife and kids to neglect...).
However comma he's sniffing elsewhere because of the re-structure and the **** roster and tw@ts in management. Indeed he's looking at easyJet..(back to square 1).
So it seems to me it's all the same wherever you are. And here's my cunning plan. Let's all sit tight for 6 months and stop playing musical seats. Then the recruitment intrays will empty and the companies will have to treat us with the respect we deserve 'cos there's no one to replace us (apart from Serbs, Crabs and other ne'er-do-wells..) Hohum back to the pub.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Moral is low, people are leaving and people are not coming back.
As for the Florida 2 thing. It is the fact that we do end up doing the maximum amount, 2 a month and 9 in 6 months, well most of us anyway............and then you end up doing another 2-4 longhaul flights in a month. Talk about fatigue, 2 days off between trips isn't enough time to get over the loss of the nights sleep on the return flight and you are off again, and again, etc....
Oh yes and low pay and another 6 or 7 years to cammand...or maybe no command!!
As for the Florida 2 thing. It is the fact that we do end up doing the maximum amount, 2 a month and 9 in 6 months, well most of us anyway............and then you end up doing another 2-4 longhaul flights in a month. Talk about fatigue, 2 days off between trips isn't enough time to get over the loss of the nights sleep on the return flight and you are off again, and again, etc....
Oh yes and low pay and another 6 or 7 years to cammand...or maybe no command!!
Join Date: Dec 1997
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There are many issues at Virgin that require urgent attention right now. For Flight Deck these include Ts&Cs and Florida 2 as already mentioned, and the discussions about these are ongoing. Unfortunately, some of those who comment on this thread are either unaware of the true situation, or have another agenda....
Virgin was fat, dumb and fairly happy prior to 9/11, which probably went for the whole long-haul industry. 9/11 brought home some major economic truths (which were beginning to become apparent anyway) which could not be ignored and needed immediate and drastic action to ensure survival. Inevitably, that action was OTT in some areas, and had unforeseen effects in others, but there wasn't time to do a huge feasibilty study before implementation!! Those contingent problems are now beginning to be addressed, but it'll be a long time before it's all as we would like it. Like I say, this applies to the whole long-haul industry.
The feelings of unease, dissatisfaction and disruption that the last 12 months have brought are not unique to Virgin, neither are the cost savings that have resulted in some of the passenger reactions seen earlier in this thread. As revenues and profits improve, these things will turn around.
As Dunhovrin' said, we should perhaps sit on our hands for a while longer and see how the industry pans out. That green grass could turn out to be painted concrete, and it'll bloody well hurt if you jump over your particular fence!!
Virgin was fat, dumb and fairly happy prior to 9/11, which probably went for the whole long-haul industry. 9/11 brought home some major economic truths (which were beginning to become apparent anyway) which could not be ignored and needed immediate and drastic action to ensure survival. Inevitably, that action was OTT in some areas, and had unforeseen effects in others, but there wasn't time to do a huge feasibilty study before implementation!! Those contingent problems are now beginning to be addressed, but it'll be a long time before it's all as we would like it. Like I say, this applies to the whole long-haul industry.
The feelings of unease, dissatisfaction and disruption that the last 12 months have brought are not unique to Virgin, neither are the cost savings that have resulted in some of the passenger reactions seen earlier in this thread. As revenues and profits improve, these things will turn around.
As Dunhovrin' said, we should perhaps sit on our hands for a while longer and see how the industry pans out. That green grass could turn out to be painted concrete, and it'll bloody well hurt if you jump over your particular fence!!
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Sadly.I talked to a mate who was forced to take the easy route through forced redundantcy the other day and basically he hates it with a passion.Works like a slave,little time off cant leave cause the only option is a return to VS who have only shown that they dont give a s**t.....
