Info regarding commuting to UK

[Jnrbiland33]

Hi all, I'm seeking some advice from people who have some experience in working long haul in UK and commuting to live in NL. I have been doing a fair bit of research and I know it is a common thing for crew to commute to the UK.
I'm in the process of joining a UK airline on long haul and I'm trying to figure out two things right now:
1 - the logistics i.e.

• do you buy discounted full fare tickets so you guarantee getting to work or do you chance it on standby basis?
• Do many people get these so called "crash pads" for the standby duties or early duties or do you just use the discounted hotels if you are only doing 5 flights a month?

2 - The tax, I have read mixed opinions on this and i know the most reliable advice for this is to seek a professional, but just want an idea of how people work it to their advantage and any tax advisors they would recommend in NL or UK:

• I have read that its paid in the country you spend most of the time in, but as a LH crew member how do you keep track of this as every few days its a different place or in the air?
• Has anyone found it more beneficial to pay it in one place over the other as on first looking its more beneficial to pay in UK as the brackets are higher than NL.

If anyone would rather message me in private as the forums are monitored, I'm happy to talk behind the scenes. I understand as a junior person in the company, it will be very difficult to manipulate the roster, but I appreciate any advice you can provide.

[tommytailwind]

Check your pms

[Mr Good Cat]

"Chancing" it to get to work on standby tickets saves money, but is a sure-fire way to get fired if you delay a flight because you can't get to work. Secondly, you need to be really careful about how the UK works with tax going forward. If you're on the PAYE system with a payslip, resident for tax purposes, this new government will find you and get you. Once you owe a huge tax bill down the line that you've been cleverly avoiding, you can do a runner avoiding a court appearance, but should you ever end up in the UK again (such as a diversion) you'll be arrested and thrown straight in jail until you can appear in court. That is the law currently (check it out) and it's only going to get more strict on tax avoidance.

Simple answer, don't 'chance' anything. Make sure you're fully compliant.

[wiggy]

Jnrbiland33

“The tax, I have read mixed opinions on this and i know the most reliable advice for this is to seek a professional, but just want an idea of how people work it to their advantage and any tax advisors they would recommend in NL or UK:

• I have read that its paid in the country you spend most of the time in, but as a LH crew member how do you keep track of this as every few days its a different place or in the air?”

I would not assume that’s correct, regardless of time in/out of countries various you can actually end up paying at least some of your social charges, especially those related to employment (e.g. UK National Insurance) in the country where you are based, and some taxes, including income tax, in both the country where you are based (e.g. UK) and also your country of residence- that’s something where you do need to take a professional’s advice, at least initially.

As for keeping track of events - yes it means a lot of bookeeping but there are individuals/companies around that can help out with that.

There was (is?) for example a pilot at BA who produced an app that read your achieved rosters and worked out all the relevant percentages.

[Jnrbiland33]

Thanks for your reply. Since posting, I have continued to dig deeper into the tax and have since found out that, there is a special treaty between UK and NL for pilots who work in UK and live in NL. I have been told from the Dutch tax authority that basically I would pay tax in UK despite being resident in NL and they have a double taxation agreement between the 2 countries to ensure that I don't get double taxed. I will also check with the UK tax service also to make sure that the answers align.

Regarding the app, thanks for the info, I will have a look around to see if I can find it as that would be beneficial

[midnight cruiser]

With two countries of similar tax burden, it's easier, might as well just subject yourself to full UK tax, and NL might be become disinterested in the details if there's little left for them to grab under DTA.
It's worth trying to get social taxes paid in your home or country where you expect to accumulate enough qualifying years for a state pension - and not the uk (where I expect state bankruptcy will preceed receiving any pension!) - I think it's form A1 to opt out of UK NI and pay in NL.

[sarah737]

Originally Posted by Jnrbiland33

Thanks for your reply. Since posting, I have continued to dig deeper into the tax and have since found out that, there is a special treaty between UK and NL for pilots who work in UK and live in NL. I have been told from the Dutch tax authority that basically I would pay tax in UK despite being resident in NL and they have a double taxation agreement between the 2 countries to ensure that I don't get double taxed. I will also check with the UK tax service also to make sure that the answers align.

There’s no special treaty, but a paragraph (14.3) about aircrew in the DTA which is quite clear: you will be taxed in Holland for income related to international flights. Domestic UK flights and ground duties, however, fall under the general rule and are taxable in the UK. You will have to file tax returns in both countries.

[tommytailwind]

Tread carefully as the info above is not all correct based on my own experiences. The part of the UK / NL treaty that affects employment income tax for pilots is dependent on the nationality of the airline for whom you work and where it is headquartered, the % of the time your work is in the UK and the % of time spent flying ‘international traffic’

Expect to pay the lion’s share of your income tax in NL if your main home is there.

You’ll also pay 100% National Insurance in the UK if your home base is in the UK and you cannot opt out / choose to pay it elsewhere.

Don’t take advice from pprune but from a qualified tax advisor in both countries. Believe me, I speak from experience.

[wiggy]

tommytailwind.

Can’t speak for UK/NL but had plenty of experience of UK v another European country and I’m in agreement with your sentiments.

I’d certainly be very surprised if UK HMRC allowed an opt out on NI for somebody operating out of a UK base - it certainly wasn’t the case when I was working but I guess things may have changed.

Ultimately you are right that in order to avoid jeopardy input is needed from professional tax advisors, initially at least.

[sarah737]

Originally Posted by tommytailwind

Tread carefully as the info above is not all correct based on my own experiences. The part of the UK / NL treaty that affects employment income tax for pilots is dependent on the nationality of the airline for whom you work and where it is headquartered, the % of the time your work is in the UK and the % of time spent flying ‘international traffic’
.

The latest version of the UK-NL DTA doesn’t mention the HQ anymore, but if it’s not a British airline a second DTA also comes into play.
Many DTA’s have been changed in recent years to close loopholes of which commuters were taking advantage of.

[Jnrbiland33]

Thanks for the replies. I will of course seek professional advice in the end, I was just seeking if people had experience on here as a guideline for comparison. The company is UK based and I'll be operating internationally every flight. I have spoken with the dutch tax authorities with my scenario who said that I'd be paying my income tax in UK. I will seek professional advice also but that's what I have been told by the Dutch authorities.

[The Blu Riband]

from experience:
4 or 5 commutes per month will be very tough, very tiring, borderline unsustainable

[Qwerty1234]

Insurance

If I remember correctly you need to ask HMRC for a S something form ( think it was called a S1). This you then need to send to the Dutch belastingdienst of de SVB. Not 100% sure anymore. This will give you full medical cover in the Netherlands as if you had Dutch health insurance.
just remember you will not be able to get your tax back on your mortgage interest payments in the Netherlands.

[RexBanner]

Originally Posted by The Blu Riband

from experience:
4 or 5 commutes per month will be very tough, very tiring, borderline unsustainable

Depends where it’s from and also how far you are from the airport at the other end. As I’ve said multiple times before, given nobody lives in the staff car park, absolutely everybody is a commuter to one extent or another. My commute is a 40 minute flight from LHR and it’s no worse than driving, in many ways easier. Having said that we have relatively frequent issues with low level cloud and only a CAT I ILS. So yeah it can get stressful from time to time but I still wouldn’t swap it with living in the U.K. and driving. AMS with the length of flight, multiple airlines and frequencies does not raise particular alarm bells for me unless it’s a major faff the other end. Once you start getting further afield - I’m specifically thinking of the Lisbon commuters and in BA it gets much further than that - then factor in another drive home once you get to the airport then yeah absolutely sod that.

[FlightDetent]

Jnrbiland33 Though it might be different for UK (don't think so), the basic layout many opinion-givers miss and then get you confused unnecessarily is the need to DECLARE the income where you are a tax resident (different triggers and release conditions, can be multiple countries synchronously) and only then it gets decided which share of what income is taxed where and how much can be credited to or from the other end to PAY it.

Personal Income Tax that is. Social Security contribution and National Health insurance need to be figured out in addition to the above via a process severely less deterministic.

The results vary wildly among the different personal and life configurations. For instance, apparently retirees on German pension wishing to move outside the EU will get their government payout cut by 60%. That's a lemon to predict 30 yrs or so in advance!