CMD on ATR something for the future
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
From: Europe
I had a same kind of choice to make some time ago, when I was an experienced ATR FO. In my company we had both ATRs and jets, and my options were to either become an ATR commander or to fly a jet as an FO. Of course I would be able to apply for ATR LHS later even if I chose jets, which made my decision easier. I chose the jet and I do not regret it, even though I did find the ATR more enjoyable to fly. In my view, flying a jet has given me a lot of new and valuable professional experience, from which I can draw from when (and if) I later became an ATR commander. When I was an ATR FO, I noted that ATR captains with only ATR experience often lacked "airmanship" and the ability to see the "big picture", but captains with jet experience (even with less TT) usually had more confidence and better airmanship in general. If I were be in the same position as the thread's starter, I would of course take the "free" command upgrade, especially if the terms and conditions are good, but in my honest opinion, having both turboprop and jet experience makes you a better pilot and a captain.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 528
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From: everywhere
As for the other one, the OP has asked what was best for career development. A discussion on career advancement, without speaking about financial considerations, is a bit like a bar with no alcohol. How does that mean that's all the person is motivated by?? It is indeed a drastic conclusion to come to. Good grief.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
I would get onto a jet ASAP. I hate to be crude, but an ATR is a waste of time. Few, if anyone, will give you command on a jet if coming from an ATR.
Of course if you wish to stay local for family reasons, that's a different story. Career wise though, get off the ATR. A bunch of ATR captains joined our airline recently, all as F/O. Command not before 2 yrs minimum.
Of course if you wish to stay local for family reasons, that's a different story. Career wise though, get off the ATR. A bunch of ATR captains joined our airline recently, all as F/O. Command not before 2 yrs minimum.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: In your head.
You, specifically, knocked the jet flying in favour of the TP, arguing it was "burning holes ILS to ILS" or whatever drivel. So, I suggest you go research what a strawman argument is.
As for the other one, the OP has asked what was best for career development. A discussion on career advancement, without speaking about financial considerations, is a bit like a bar with no alcohol. How does that mean that's all the person is motivated by?? It is indeed a drastic conclusion to come to. Good grief.
As for the other one, the OP has asked what was best for career development. A discussion on career advancement, without speaking about financial considerations, is a bit like a bar with no alcohol. How does that mean that's all the person is motivated by?? It is indeed a drastic conclusion to come to. Good grief.
And who said that was "all" that poster was motivated by?
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,993
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From: Hong Kong
Unfortunately everyone will have a different opinion on this. Some people get lucky and get a quick upgrade, other don't. It all boils down to which (jet) airline you eventually end up at, if they need people at the time and what their upgrade process is. If the upgrade requirement is 5000tt and 2000h on aircraft above 50t then all the ATR PIC time in the world isn't going to get you upgraded.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 551
From: TOD
TP and Jet flying are challenging and rewarding in different ways. Neither is easier despite what some posters say - the destinations you fly to and the weather which prevails along the route has a greater effect on the challenge that flight offers than any difference in aircraft type.
When choosing between two airlines, always go for the airline which has the most robust balance sheet and the best financial performance.
When choosing between two airlines, always go for the airline which has the most robust balance sheet and the best financial performance.
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 72
Likes: 5
From: EU
Hello everyone!
Since 2020 I am flying as F/O on ATR42/72 (TFT 1600h) and my company offered me now an upgrade to CMD starting the end of the next month with a bond of two years.
I am really happy with the airline (2 weeks on 2 off, best salary for TP operation, based in my hometown)
Of course I am very happy about the trust and looking forward to this opportunity.
But I always wanted to fly a jet. Should I go for the upgrade for another few years or should I look for a new adventure on a new type?
It is clear to me there is no definite answer to this question and that I will have to do the decision on my own at the end, but I wanted to hear some different opinions about this “problem”.
Or maybe someone experienced a similar situation?
Since 2020 I am flying as F/O on ATR42/72 (TFT 1600h) and my company offered me now an upgrade to CMD starting the end of the next month with a bond of two years.
I am really happy with the airline (2 weeks on 2 off, best salary for TP operation, based in my hometown)
Of course I am very happy about the trust and looking forward to this opportunity.
But I always wanted to fly a jet. Should I go for the upgrade for another few years or should I look for a new adventure on a new type?
It is clear to me there is no definite answer to this question and that I will have to do the decision on my own at the end, but I wanted to hear some different opinions about this “problem”.
Or maybe someone experienced a similar situation?
The best airplane is the one which allows you to have a happy life
Joined: May 2016
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From: The EU
Gender Faculty Specialist
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From: In your head.
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 446
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From: Germany
Hello 😉,
A few points you have to look at. A few posters mentioned it.
- What is your family life like?
- Where will I be based when I change companies?
- When based elsewhere, is it commutable?
- 2 on 2 off holy or not? Or can you do also 3 weeks on 2 weeks off?
- What do you want to achieve in your career? You mentioned, you want to fly Jets at one point.
How many hours have you flown the ATR now? If you have a few 1000 on it, and your dream is to fly jets, then NOW is the time to do it, as the market is pretty good. If the times are bad and you want to make a change, your TP hrs are useless.
- We all know that seniority is holy in this business, meaning, the sooner you start higher up, the sooner you get to the position you want to be in.
Tbh, I think it is time to move on to jets. If you are lucky, you could be for instance in the company where I fly Heavy Jets become a Cpt in about 7 years.
T&Cs are maybe not the best in the Market, but it gives you Heavy hrs.
Once you Become a Cpt. On Heavy and do that for instance 5 years, it is easier to move back to Short Haul then the opposite around.
All in all, in about 10 to 12 years, You can go any direction.
Staying that time TP Brings you to TP.
Going to Jet brings you many more options.
I know of so many TP Guys, Cpts etc.. They got stuck on the TP for many years.
With Heavy Jet experience many more doors will open up.
I do miss flying Short Medium Haul, but I do not miss the 4 leg days 5 hr block for 11 hr duty or descretion 12 hours.
Long Haul gives you the opportunity to see more of the world. Flying just 1 leg over the Ocean is very relaxed.
Just my point of view.
Good luck and let us know what you decided to do.
A few points you have to look at. A few posters mentioned it.
- What is your family life like?
- Where will I be based when I change companies?
- When based elsewhere, is it commutable?
- 2 on 2 off holy or not? Or can you do also 3 weeks on 2 weeks off?
- What do you want to achieve in your career? You mentioned, you want to fly Jets at one point.
How many hours have you flown the ATR now? If you have a few 1000 on it, and your dream is to fly jets, then NOW is the time to do it, as the market is pretty good. If the times are bad and you want to make a change, your TP hrs are useless.
- We all know that seniority is holy in this business, meaning, the sooner you start higher up, the sooner you get to the position you want to be in.
Tbh, I think it is time to move on to jets. If you are lucky, you could be for instance in the company where I fly Heavy Jets become a Cpt in about 7 years.
T&Cs are maybe not the best in the Market, but it gives you Heavy hrs.
Once you Become a Cpt. On Heavy and do that for instance 5 years, it is easier to move back to Short Haul then the opposite around.
All in all, in about 10 to 12 years, You can go any direction.
Staying that time TP Brings you to TP.
Going to Jet brings you many more options.
I know of so many TP Guys, Cpts etc.. They got stuck on the TP for many years.
With Heavy Jet experience many more doors will open up.
I do miss flying Short Medium Haul, but I do not miss the 4 leg days 5 hr block for 11 hr duty or descretion 12 hours.
Long Haul gives you the opportunity to see more of the world. Flying just 1 leg over the Ocean is very relaxed.
Just my point of view.
Good luck and let us know what you decided to do.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: B
Hello,
Thank you for all your answers.
Of course I will take the offer as CMD because I don’t have any other good choice at the moment.
For now my plan is to focus on the training (SIM, Line Training) which will start soon.
It doesn’t change my plan to fly jet and long haul. As soon everything is done and I get used to fly on the left, I will start applying for a jet position.
In my opinion it’s a great experience to take the command. As I said, I have only 1600h in my logbook and I am still young (around 30). Maybe it doesn’t help me to get a command position on a jet but for sure I will grow from it and hopefully it will help me to get on a jet as FO next year.
Thank you for all your answers.
Of course I will take the offer as CMD because I don’t have any other good choice at the moment.
For now my plan is to focus on the training (SIM, Line Training) which will start soon.
It doesn’t change my plan to fly jet and long haul. As soon everything is done and I get used to fly on the left, I will start applying for a jet position.
In my opinion it’s a great experience to take the command. As I said, I have only 1600h in my logbook and I am still young (around 30). Maybe it doesn’t help me to get a command position on a jet but for sure I will grow from it and hopefully it will help me to get on a jet as FO next year.
