Example Rosters (Jet2,Tui, WhizzAir, etc)
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Example Rosters (Jet2,Tui, WhizzAir, etc)
Hello guys + gals,
I'm currently a military pilot, looking to make the transition to Airlines. I've done what research I can across the internet, but I'm finding any references to rosters quite vague - for example:
Jet2 - 'Random Roster'
TUI - 'Variable Pattern'
RyanAir - '5 on, 4 off'
WhizzAir - 'flexible and fixed roster patterns: 5/4, 14/7, 15/15, reverse and others'
It's really not much to go on when deciding to change careers, as there isn't any detail as to 'typical' flying days - are they max crew duty, lots of unsociable hours, lots of flights from non-home hubs?
I'm hoping with the help of you individuals posting anonymous, old rosters, that this could become a useful thread for pilots to reference when looking at prospective employers, to get a bit of 'warts and all' detail to see if it's a good fit for the individual.
Thank you for your help!
I'm currently a military pilot, looking to make the transition to Airlines. I've done what research I can across the internet, but I'm finding any references to rosters quite vague - for example:
Jet2 - 'Random Roster'
TUI - 'Variable Pattern'
RyanAir - '5 on, 4 off'
WhizzAir - 'flexible and fixed roster patterns: 5/4, 14/7, 15/15, reverse and others'
It's really not much to go on when deciding to change careers, as there isn't any detail as to 'typical' flying days - are they max crew duty, lots of unsociable hours, lots of flights from non-home hubs?
I'm hoping with the help of you individuals posting anonymous, old rosters, that this could become a useful thread for pilots to reference when looking at prospective employers, to get a bit of 'warts and all' detail to see if it's a good fit for the individual.
Thank you for your help!
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any detail as to 'typical' flying days - are they max crew duty, lots of unsociable hours, lots of flights from non-home hubs?
Even if You fly from home expect up to 6 days waking up at 3.30am with mostly 4 sectors day or up to 6 days with late start times but getting home at midnight at best.
That’s Low Cost life in Europe.
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Starts off with 5 duty days, a mixture of mid to long 2 sector days, three days flying.
then the rest of the month is two to three days off and then a 4 day run of home standbys, repeat, I dont expect to get called on the standbys this time of year but sickness levels seem higher than normal at the moment so maybe once or twice over the three weeks
Out of the airlines you posted, Jet2 is the best of the bunch.
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Only if you work for a rubbish airline. My november 'random roster' is:
Starts off with 5 duty days, a mixture of mid to long 2 sector days, three days flying.
then the rest of the month is two to three days off and then a 4 day run of home standbys, repeat, I dont expect to get called on the standbys this time of year but sickness levels seem higher than normal at the moment so maybe once or twice over the three weeks
Out of the airlines you posted, Jet2 is the best of the bunch.
Starts off with 5 duty days, a mixture of mid to long 2 sector days, three days flying.
then the rest of the month is two to three days off and then a 4 day run of home standbys, repeat, I dont expect to get called on the standbys this time of year but sickness levels seem higher than normal at the moment so maybe once or twice over the three weeks
Out of the airlines you posted, Jet2 is the best of the bunch.
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Only if you work for a rubbish airline. My november 'random roster' is:
Starts off with 5 duty days, a mixture of mid to long 2 sector days, three days flying.
then the rest of the month is two to three days off and then a 4 day run of home standbys, repeat, I dont expect to get called on the standbys this time of year but sickness levels seem higher than normal at the moment so maybe once or twice over the three weeks
Out of the airlines you posted, Jet2 is the best of the bunch.
Starts off with 5 duty days, a mixture of mid to long 2 sector days, three days flying.
then the rest of the month is two to three days off and then a 4 day run of home standbys, repeat, I dont expect to get called on the standbys this time of year but sickness levels seem higher than normal at the moment so maybe once or twice over the three weeks
Out of the airlines you posted, Jet2 is the best of the bunch.
Hahah yes every month in the 737 short haul bucket and spade world is like November!! Classic!
A fixed pattern roster for a scheduled operator is much better than a variable or random or whatever weekend destroying, fatigue blasting version you can think of.
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I have flown 360 hours in 2023, probably looking at 400 for the year, super fatiguing... Fixed pattern 5/4 is the greatest scam that European pilots ever fell for, you can keep it
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I'm a new joiner left seat on the baby boeing, been averaging 70hrs month, Nov & Dec are significantly less though.
Overall has been far better than the permanent fatigue of longhaul in the sandpit, with the caveat that I haven't done a proper summer here yet.
Need to mention the fleet you’re on, afraid that’s as useful as someone on a 50% contract telling OP how many days off they get without mentioning that minor detail…
OP, expect to get firehosed in summer at J2, it was the summer rosters that stopped me applying. Nearly projectile vomited all over my mates iPad when he showed me them. 95+ a month, taxis around the network and months without weekends off. 3am finishes into 4pm reports. Yuck.
That said, by definition of your logbook by this point in the year, winter has to be a lot calmer. Still standbys scattered about but a lot less flying. Days in uniform vs salary is pretty amazing at J2 over winter.
TUI you’ve got to contend with their nonsense part time contract, would probably give it a miss just for that, the TR payments etc etc.
Ezy/RYR just as busy and as people have said, fixed pattern doesn’t mean it’s necessarily less tiring. Expect shorter sectors so less helpful having the 900 hour rule helping you out over winter. However, you can plan your life years into the future. That might be the silver bullet for you lifestyle wise.
J2 evidently treat their staff better than some places, just be warned that there’s a slightly odd fetishisation from some on here about how utopian it is there. It’s a low cost airline, not oxfam, they exist to get every penny of profit they can from you.
Use the old Cranwellian (or boat/stable equivalent) network to get some rosters from mates you’ve got there to take a look. And get the full year. Just a handful of November rosters would be meaningless to you.
Re Jet2, I'm not on the 75 and averaged 8 flights month during the summer. 2 a week. Ive always flown random pattern rosters (25 years), but can't see how fixed pattern rosters can be any less fatiguing. Ive never done more than 4 earlies in a row, and never more than 3 deep nights. When I started flying we used to check in for a turkey flight at 9pm, get back about 7 or 8am. How about Zante checking in at 11pm? That was a deep night! Fortunately those days seem to have gone.
Let's be honest, at Jet2, in the summer you are going to work hard. In the winter not so much. TUI will be the same, although on a part time contract. But you can make a fortune on overtime that Jet2 doesn't offer. Easy, Ryan, and Wizz will be fairly steady all year. Out of those 3, Easy has the best overall terms and conditions going by various conversations Ive had.
Time to command? Jet2 would be about 2 years, it takes that long to get through the system if you already have the hours and you're not DEC. Ryan and Wizz would be quick I think. TUI, probably quite a while, maybe 7 years (still part time when you get promoted, but don't forget the overtime) depending on future retirements and fleet growth.
If im honest I wouldn't touch wizz with a barge pole. Ryan Air would be next to last on my list, then it's a tossup between TUI and Easy. Not sure TUIs level of bullish*t would suit my temperament, and Easy Jets basic pay is a bit sh*t.
If you're ex RAF Jet2 will seem like a home from home, but the overall package probably isn't as good as somewhere like TUI. Also, if you want long haul, while there's rumours, I wouldn't expect that anytime soon. You may see A330s appear, but they will be doing Dalaman, Palma, and Faro. But then again, this is Jet2 and who knows!
Just to add, out of the airlines I've mentioned, I've only worked for Jet2, my comments regarding the others are just from what I hear having conversations with friends who work there.
Let's be honest, at Jet2, in the summer you are going to work hard. In the winter not so much. TUI will be the same, although on a part time contract. But you can make a fortune on overtime that Jet2 doesn't offer. Easy, Ryan, and Wizz will be fairly steady all year. Out of those 3, Easy has the best overall terms and conditions going by various conversations Ive had.
Time to command? Jet2 would be about 2 years, it takes that long to get through the system if you already have the hours and you're not DEC. Ryan and Wizz would be quick I think. TUI, probably quite a while, maybe 7 years (still part time when you get promoted, but don't forget the overtime) depending on future retirements and fleet growth.
If im honest I wouldn't touch wizz with a barge pole. Ryan Air would be next to last on my list, then it's a tossup between TUI and Easy. Not sure TUIs level of bullish*t would suit my temperament, and Easy Jets basic pay is a bit sh*t.
If you're ex RAF Jet2 will seem like a home from home, but the overall package probably isn't as good as somewhere like TUI. Also, if you want long haul, while there's rumours, I wouldn't expect that anytime soon. You may see A330s appear, but they will be doing Dalaman, Palma, and Faro. But then again, this is Jet2 and who knows!
Just to add, out of the airlines I've mentioned, I've only worked for Jet2, my comments regarding the others are just from what I hear having conversations with friends who work there.
To be fair, I flew the 737 for J2 for eight years, and never more than 700 hours per year, most years less.
The big problem isn’t the number of hours you fly, but how they’re flown. At any base some people will fly 100 hours a month and others in the same seat and type will fly 50. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason to it. You can’t get requested days off less than three months ahead and in the summer non are available, and if you have kids, in my experience you’ll only get leave in the summer holidays once every three years, and even then you’re only allowed nine days of leave between May and October. If as a captain you are “selected” to fly to cat C airfields (you aren’t given a choice) you will work every weekend in the winter, because that’s when the ski flights happen, and you won’t earn any extra, in fact less as you find yourself on Cat C standbys instead of earning flight and sector pay like non Cat C trained pilots.
Dont get me wrong, it wasn’t a bad place to work. Crewing / management and training are generally helpful as far as they can be, and engineering is excellent, on the 738 st least it was rare to be carrying defects. But it’s not Wonderful. Unfortunately all the other UK airlines I worked for are no longer in existence, so I can’t really compare it. But like most places, some are better, some are worse.
The big problem isn’t the number of hours you fly, but how they’re flown. At any base some people will fly 100 hours a month and others in the same seat and type will fly 50. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason to it. You can’t get requested days off less than three months ahead and in the summer non are available, and if you have kids, in my experience you’ll only get leave in the summer holidays once every three years, and even then you’re only allowed nine days of leave between May and October. If as a captain you are “selected” to fly to cat C airfields (you aren’t given a choice) you will work every weekend in the winter, because that’s when the ski flights happen, and you won’t earn any extra, in fact less as you find yourself on Cat C standbys instead of earning flight and sector pay like non Cat C trained pilots.
Dont get me wrong, it wasn’t a bad place to work. Crewing / management and training are generally helpful as far as they can be, and engineering is excellent, on the 738 st least it was rare to be carrying defects. But it’s not Wonderful. Unfortunately all the other UK airlines I worked for are no longer in existence, so I can’t really compare it. But like most places, some are better, some are worse.
Not so sure on that. Recently at my regional base a serious accident happened that blocked the road from the crew rooms to the staff car parks. We were all stuck in the airport till 3am. EZY told the crews to let them know when they’re at their cars to update the off duty times, any full day off payments as a result would be honoured and if nobody wanted to wait they would pay for taxis to take the crews home or put them up in a hotel if they wished. When we finally got on the bus when they decided to bus us across the runway we were talking to some of the Jet2 crew, they were told tough, it’s not our fault there was an accident and you can’t get to your car, your off duty time stands at 30 minutes post on chocks time, no help, no offers and expected to turn up for their duty later that day.
Yes, in EZY we do have some 4 sector days, you can request just two which has worked for me in the past. The reality is the days are just as long whoever you work for, the glory days are long gone. Must admit PT75 LHS at EZY is pretty sweet. Quality of life for myself is excellent, winter tends to be quiet, I can also manipulate my roster on PT75 to some degree. Summer I tend to work around 9/10 days max. Very rarely have I been sent to another base to operate, last time I had was around 5yrs ago.
Operationally at the moment Jet2 is far better than most, most hoping that those at EZY don’t have long left as nobody has any faith in their leadership on running the company. Pay deal being negotiated so the gap for FOs pay may look different to what it is now.
All have their pros and cons. Talking to friends in Jet2, TUI, BA, Virgin or Ryanair, all have grumbles about who they work for and complain of similar things, there is no utopia.
Yes, in EZY we do have some 4 sector days, you can request just two which has worked for me in the past. The reality is the days are just as long whoever you work for, the glory days are long gone. Must admit PT75 LHS at EZY is pretty sweet. Quality of life for myself is excellent, winter tends to be quiet, I can also manipulate my roster on PT75 to some degree. Summer I tend to work around 9/10 days max. Very rarely have I been sent to another base to operate, last time I had was around 5yrs ago.
Operationally at the moment Jet2 is far better than most, most hoping that those at EZY don’t have long left as nobody has any faith in their leadership on running the company. Pay deal being negotiated so the gap for FOs pay may look different to what it is now.
All have their pros and cons. Talking to friends in Jet2, TUI, BA, Virgin or Ryanair, all have grumbles about who they work for and complain of similar things, there is no utopia.
Last edited by Stone Cold II; 7th Nov 2023 at 12:01.
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. When we finally got on the bus when they decided to bus us across the runway we were talking to some of the Jet2 crew, they were told tough, it’s not our fault there was an accident and you can’t get to your car, your off duty time stands at 30 minutes post on chocks time, no help, no offers and expected to turn up for their duty later that day..
For a start, our check out time is 45mins for flight crew, which is normally plenty of time. If you are delayed for whatever reason, give crewing a call and you can extend your checkout time, I’ve done this several times in the past with no issues. If you feel you are too tired to drive home, again, ring crewing and they’ll sort you out with either a hotel room or a taxi, with another ride back the next day to pick your car up from the airport.
There have been quite a few min rest duties rostered this summer but if you feel you’ve had insufficient rest, call fatigued and get the duty removed. Simple.
I’ve always found the crewing and ops depts to be incredibly helpful and friendly at Jet2, especially compared to my previous airlines.
I would hope so. This was the cabin crew, didn’t see the flight deck. Got a few mates at J2 and what the cabin crew were saying wasn’t the picture of what I’ve been told in the past, I did hear them on the phone to crewing and that is what he said they were told, they were not happy about it.
The road was shut for around 6-8 hours.
The road was shut for around 6-8 hours.
Last edited by Stone Cold II; 7th Nov 2023 at 14:18.
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Only if you work for a rubbish airline. My november 'random roster' is:
Starts off with 5 duty days, a mixture of mid to long 2 sector days, three days flying.
then the rest of the month is two to three days off and then a 4 day run of home standbys, repeat, I dont expect to get called on the standbys this time of year but sickness levels seem higher than normal at the moment so maybe once or twice over the three weeks
Out of the airlines you posted, Jet2 is the best of the bunch.
Starts off with 5 duty days, a mixture of mid to long 2 sector days, three days flying.
then the rest of the month is two to three days off and then a 4 day run of home standbys, repeat, I dont expect to get called on the standbys this time of year but sickness levels seem higher than normal at the moment so maybe once or twice over the three weeks
Out of the airlines you posted, Jet2 is the best of the bunch.
And what’s so great about standby? 360 hours but endless days of pointless standby where you can’t plan anything, have to arrange childcare, sit in a hotel room if you commute. I’d rather be flying.
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As far as rosters go I've averaged 70 hours a month over the summer on the early duty preference. Yes more days at work but life, sleep, and sector pay have never been better.
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