Terms & Conditions in India
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Terms & Conditions in India
I have decided lately that I want to pursue aviation, and would like to make an informed decision before jumping head-first into (what is probably going to be) the best and/or worst decision of my life. For some background, I am an Indian citizen, and I can’t afford the cadet programs here in the subcontinent (IndiGo charges $146k USD upfront). I plan on getting a CPL, and figuring out what to do from there because I don’t want to do a self-sponsored type rating or pay-to-fly. From what I can make out, the only real option for me to start my flying career is in India, because I’m not sure airlines in Europe or elsewhere will be willing to sponsor the visa of a complete newbie if I want to enter their cadet/bond programs.
So, I have some questions about the aviation market/jobs/airlines in India right now -
(these questions are stolen off a pprune post from 2004 and I thought that they were quite fitting in my scenario)
1) What are the scheduling agreements for most airlines like? Are the rosters stable or do they change frequently? Random or pattern? What are the patterns like?
2) How many hours can I expect to work per day/month/year?
3) Are there any “hidden traps” in the rosters, like switches from earlies to lates mid week, etc
4) How many days away from home is the average trip, and what are the minimum rest times after a trip?
5) Is there an option for me to be able to be at home by the end of every day? (obviously some uncertainty is guaranteed)
6) How many days at home are guaranteed, and in what chunks?
7) What are the leave arrangements like?
8) How likely is it for me to be able to get leave on special days? (dentist appointment, birthdays/weddings/etc)
9) How is the average pay for a new FO? I’m not expecting anything astonishing but it shouldn’t be crazy low either
10) How much pay can I expect as an SFO and Captain
11) Average time to upgrade to SFO and/or command?
12) What are the arrangements for loss of license/medical/sickness?
13) Do they pay for you (and your family’s) insurance?
Apologies for the massive post, and thanks for any replies in advance!
So, I have some questions about the aviation market/jobs/airlines in India right now -
(these questions are stolen off a pprune post from 2004 and I thought that they were quite fitting in my scenario)
1) What are the scheduling agreements for most airlines like? Are the rosters stable or do they change frequently? Random or pattern? What are the patterns like?
2) How many hours can I expect to work per day/month/year?
3) Are there any “hidden traps” in the rosters, like switches from earlies to lates mid week, etc
4) How many days away from home is the average trip, and what are the minimum rest times after a trip?
5) Is there an option for me to be able to be at home by the end of every day? (obviously some uncertainty is guaranteed)
6) How many days at home are guaranteed, and in what chunks?
7) What are the leave arrangements like?
8) How likely is it for me to be able to get leave on special days? (dentist appointment, birthdays/weddings/etc)
9) How is the average pay for a new FO? I’m not expecting anything astonishing but it shouldn’t be crazy low either
10) How much pay can I expect as an SFO and Captain
11) Average time to upgrade to SFO and/or command?
12) What are the arrangements for loss of license/medical/sickness?
13) Do they pay for you (and your family’s) insurance?
Apologies for the massive post, and thanks for any replies in advance!
Dear T7PF
No-one else has offered an opinion in >24 hrs (which is unusual for prune) and given that we know little about you other than your nationality and your desire to pursue a career in aviation, so as a long retired military and civvy pilot and committed cynic, I would suggest the following:
1. It does not matter what age, or whatever or wherever you are - the realistic answer to your perfectly reasonable questions would currently be - You should assume the worst or most negative answers to every single question.
2. Even the most senior Captain in most well known world airlines would have trouble accessing most of the 'beneficial arrangements' you ask about.
3. In most airlines around the world, if you are at the bottom of the list - you do what your employer tells you - or you leave.
4. If you aspire to a career in civil aviation, you might do better by reading up on the Wannabes section.
5. I kid you not - whatever you might read or think - if you want to be a real airline pilot - It ain't easy. It's jolly hard work. It's family disruptive. Your management will squeeze you regardless of how loud you squeak. Your union will have little influence on your resulting miserable junior life.
6. Have you tried any flying, other than on holiday ? Or passed a civvy aviation medical ? What about a PPL for starters ?
7. I'm told the Indian Air Force is always looking for a few good folks.
Kind regards, LFH
No-one else has offered an opinion in >24 hrs (which is unusual for prune) and given that we know little about you other than your nationality and your desire to pursue a career in aviation, so as a long retired military and civvy pilot and committed cynic, I would suggest the following:
1. It does not matter what age, or whatever or wherever you are - the realistic answer to your perfectly reasonable questions would currently be - You should assume the worst or most negative answers to every single question.
2. Even the most senior Captain in most well known world airlines would have trouble accessing most of the 'beneficial arrangements' you ask about.
3. In most airlines around the world, if you are at the bottom of the list - you do what your employer tells you - or you leave.
4. If you aspire to a career in civil aviation, you might do better by reading up on the Wannabes section.
5. I kid you not - whatever you might read or think - if you want to be a real airline pilot - It ain't easy. It's jolly hard work. It's family disruptive. Your management will squeeze you regardless of how loud you squeak. Your union will have little influence on your resulting miserable junior life.
6. Have you tried any flying, other than on holiday ? Or passed a civvy aviation medical ? What about a PPL for starters ?
7. I'm told the Indian Air Force is always looking for a few good folks.
Kind regards, LFH
Dear T7PF
No-one else has offered an opinion in >24 hrs (which is unusual for prune) and given that we know little about you other than your nationality and your desire to pursue a career in aviation, so as a long retired military and civvy pilot and committed cynic, I would suggest the following:
1. It does not matter what age, or whatever or wherever you are - the realistic answer to your perfectly reasonable questions would currently be - You should assume the worst or most negative answers to every single question.
2. Even the most senior Captain in most well known world airlines would have trouble accessing most of the 'beneficial arrangements' you ask about.
3. In most airlines around the world, if you are at the bottom of the list - you do what your employer tells you - or you leave.
4. If you aspire to a career in civil aviation, you might do better by reading up on the Wannabes section.
5. I kid you not - whatever you might read or think - if you want to be a real airline pilot - It ain't easy. It's jolly hard work. It's family disruptive. Your management will squeeze you regardless of how loud you squeak. Your union will have little influence on your resulting miserable junior life.
6. Have you tried any flying, other than on holiday ? Or passed a civvy aviation medical ? What about a PPL for starters ?
7. I'm told the Indian Air Force is always looking for a few good folks.
Kind regards, LFH
No-one else has offered an opinion in >24 hrs (which is unusual for prune) and given that we know little about you other than your nationality and your desire to pursue a career in aviation, so as a long retired military and civvy pilot and committed cynic, I would suggest the following:
1. It does not matter what age, or whatever or wherever you are - the realistic answer to your perfectly reasonable questions would currently be - You should assume the worst or most negative answers to every single question.
2. Even the most senior Captain in most well known world airlines would have trouble accessing most of the 'beneficial arrangements' you ask about.
3. In most airlines around the world, if you are at the bottom of the list - you do what your employer tells you - or you leave.
4. If you aspire to a career in civil aviation, you might do better by reading up on the Wannabes section.
5. I kid you not - whatever you might read or think - if you want to be a real airline pilot - It ain't easy. It's jolly hard work. It's family disruptive. Your management will squeeze you regardless of how loud you squeak. Your union will have little influence on your resulting miserable junior life.
6. Have you tried any flying, other than on holiday ? Or passed a civvy aviation medical ? What about a PPL for starters ?
7. I'm told the Indian Air Force is always looking for a few good folks.
Kind regards, LFH
OP, I’d be amazed if there wasn’t a more Indian focused forum out there for pilots, one with the critical mass of users to answer you. Might be worth a bit of Googling to find one.
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Dear T7PF
No-one else has offered an opinion in >24 hrs (which is unusual for prune) and given that we know little about you other than your nationality and your desire to pursue a career in aviation, so as a long retired military and civvy pilot and committed cynic, I would suggest the following:
1. It does not matter what age, or whatever or wherever you are - the realistic answer to your perfectly reasonable questions would currently be - You should assume the worst or most negative answers to every single question.
2. Even the most senior Captain in most well known world airlines would have trouble accessing most of the 'beneficial arrangements' you ask about.
3. In most airlines around the world, if you are at the bottom of the list - you do what your employer tells you - or you leave.
4. If you aspire to a career in civil aviation, you might do better by reading up on the Wannabes section.
5. I kid you not - whatever you might read or think - if you want to be a real airline pilot - It ain't easy. It's jolly hard work. It's family disruptive. Your management will squeeze you regardless of how loud you squeak. Your union will have little influence on your resulting miserable junior life.
6. Have you tried any flying, other than on holiday ? Or passed a civvy aviation medical ? What about a PPL for starters ?
7. I'm told the Indian Air Force is always looking for a few good folks.
Kind regards, LFH
No-one else has offered an opinion in >24 hrs (which is unusual for prune) and given that we know little about you other than your nationality and your desire to pursue a career in aviation, so as a long retired military and civvy pilot and committed cynic, I would suggest the following:
1. It does not matter what age, or whatever or wherever you are - the realistic answer to your perfectly reasonable questions would currently be - You should assume the worst or most negative answers to every single question.
2. Even the most senior Captain in most well known world airlines would have trouble accessing most of the 'beneficial arrangements' you ask about.
3. In most airlines around the world, if you are at the bottom of the list - you do what your employer tells you - or you leave.
4. If you aspire to a career in civil aviation, you might do better by reading up on the Wannabes section.
5. I kid you not - whatever you might read or think - if you want to be a real airline pilot - It ain't easy. It's jolly hard work. It's family disruptive. Your management will squeeze you regardless of how loud you squeak. Your union will have little influence on your resulting miserable junior life.
6. Have you tried any flying, other than on holiday ? Or passed a civvy aviation medical ? What about a PPL for starters ?
7. I'm told the Indian Air Force is always looking for a few good folks.
Kind regards, LFH
Some additional background information - I'm in my final year of school, and hoping to get a degree in (aerospace) engineering. That does make the first paragraph of the initial post a bit misleading though, it'll be a good 4-5 years before I can even start thinking about applying to any airlines, but I plan on getting a PPL before then. I haven't done any flying of my own or a class 1 medical yet, but from what I can make out based on reading the criteria and previous medical checkups, I'm probably going to pass.
Can you elaborate on points 2 and 3 please? I find this quite interesting, because from what I've heard so far, the main issue for an FO is airlines wanting ridiculous sums of money for mundane reasons like training, stuff like RYR making you pay for your own airline training and type rating for example.
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I think the lack of responses was because the forum is pretty heavily biased towards UK/EU and Australasia in terms of English speakers, and if you can’t actually answer the OP’s questions it’s pretty pointless answering.
OP, I’d be amazed if there wasn’t a more Indian focused forum out there for pilots, one with the critical mass of users to answer you. Might be worth a bit of Googling to find one.
OP, I’d be amazed if there wasn’t a more Indian focused forum out there for pilots, one with the critical mass of users to answer you. Might be worth a bit of Googling to find one.
That being said, I've come across a couple Youtube channels run by Indian pilots and apparently the pay classes are:
-$1500 during initial line training
-$2500 as a junior first officer
-$5000 as a senior first officer
-$8500 as a captain
All figures are in USD, and per month, with variations of about ±$1000.
On average you can expect to do 70 hours per month in India (short haul) but I'm not sure how that translates into duty hours/days. There's also no information on rosters/scheduling.
Thoughts on pay? How does it compare to elsewhere?
planes without pilots
Dear T7PF
I was going to ask what your 'day job' was, but since you don't have one yet, might I offer the advice I usually hand out ? ... "Get a proper qualification first, then you will be better placed to trifle with aviation."
Who knows ? Six to ten years from now, with a degree in aerospace engineering you might find yourself working on a viable project to remove all pilots from commercial aeroplanes. Parts of the industry have been discussing the subject for some years. That'll give pruners something to talk about. The military have already achieved it, though it's taken since the first wishful day dreams in 1956.
LFH
I was going to ask what your 'day job' was, but since you don't have one yet, might I offer the advice I usually hand out ? ... "Get a proper qualification first, then you will be better placed to trifle with aviation."
Who knows ? Six to ten years from now, with a degree in aerospace engineering you might find yourself working on a viable project to remove all pilots from commercial aeroplanes. Parts of the industry have been discussing the subject for some years. That'll give pruners something to talk about. The military have already achieved it, though it's taken since the first wishful day dreams in 1956.
LFH
