Pilots Unions
Joined: Sep 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 956
Likes: 68
From: away from home
Yes the unions will survive. They may need to tighten the belt for a while, but they are more needed now than ever. Just look at the garbage that is the way Wizz Air treats its pilots.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 35
From: I wouldn't know.
Well run unions will survive, and in the end, the union is the mass of its members, i didn't leave "my" union when i lost my job last time, after i found another job they got money again. That said, it certainly can survive operating at a loss for a few years, as can any financially responsible organization.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 480
Likes: 27
From: at the edge of the alps
Good unions will have some money in the piggy bank to live through bad times and most unions will have to scale back operations to weather the crisis. You'd notice any unions closing by the cheers coming from the RYR, Wizz, etc. offices....
If all pilots still employed would be with a union they'd probably have more members than before the crisis as too many chose not to be represented...
If all pilots still employed would be with a union they'd probably have more members than before the crisis as too many chose not to be represented...
Joined: Nov 2011
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 749
Likes: 6
From: Somewhere close to me
We need to have realistic expectations to what unions can achieve. In such a crisis situation as we are facing now, the Unions are fighting with very little in their arsenal. Many feel let down by union for not performing miracles, and unfortunately you have divide created by companies, who try to divide and conquer the unions to bust them.
The real effect of the unions can be felt in the good times, and it depends on what people are willing to sacrifice in the good times, for the good of everyone.
Also labor laws example in the UK are very poor compared to most European countries and even compared to the USA, where the unions are very strong.
The unions need their members support and engagement in the good times, to be able to negotiate good agreements that will cover them for bad times like now. It's hard to start making changes when the house is already on fire, rather we need to ensure that there is a solid framework in place before the fire starts.
The real effect of the unions can be felt in the good times, and it depends on what people are willing to sacrifice in the good times, for the good of everyone.
Also labor laws example in the UK are very poor compared to most European countries and even compared to the USA, where the unions are very strong.
The unions need their members support and engagement in the good times, to be able to negotiate good agreements that will cover them for bad times like now. It's hard to start making changes when the house is already on fire, rather we need to ensure that there is a solid framework in place before the fire starts.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 480
Likes: 27
From: at the edge of the alps
If all European pilots had joined a union pre-Covid, we might have been able to put up enough pressure on Brussels and our governments to get rid of pay2fly and self-employed pilots. Unfortunately less than half of all pilots found it worthwhile to join.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: in a bakery
I'm not in a union, I lost all trust in my previous union so decided to stop paying large sums of money to them. I wasn't alone either.
What can they do for us now? I have access to as much information I need online for job searching and I would think any inside information will be shared to those closest before being released to the rest of the membership.
What can they do for us now? I have access to as much information I need online for job searching and I would think any inside information will be shared to those closest before being released to the rest of the membership.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 53
Likes: 6
From: US
Can they survive? I doubt balpa can survive - it has more or less fixed outgoings, not least a huge defined benefit legacy pension deficit... and revenue will be decreasing dramatically. Too many of its (majority) non-BA members will feel under served, or downright betrayed, over the decades, and those with long memories see the membership fees as the first to go in household belt- tightening.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 471
Likes: 31
From: Europe
MrKiplin,
So you lost all trust in your previous union so you decided not to be a member of any union? That's some logic... A bit like: I had a
employer once so I won't work for anyone ever again. Or I had a woman who cheated on me so I won't ever be in a relationship with one ever again.
Also, a union is basically the sum of its members. Members elect their reps. Bit like the democracies we live in. Not voting is never the answer when one is disappointed with their government.
That's just how I feel, though.
So you lost all trust in your previous union so you decided not to be a member of any union? That's some logic... A bit like: I had a
employer once so I won't work for anyone ever again. Or I had a woman who cheated on me so I won't ever be in a relationship with one ever again.Also, a union is basically the sum of its members. Members elect their reps. Bit like the democracies we live in. Not voting is never the answer when one is disappointed with their government.
That's just how I feel, though.
Last edited by 733driver; 28th September 2020 at 16:53.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: in a bakery
733driver
Unions arent like employers. I can survive without a union, I need income and if I'm going to give a union 100 a month then they need to be giving value for money.
Its a personal choice.
I'm pleased you are happy with your choice and I'm sorry your woman cheated on you. Maybe if you spent less time on the union website she wouldn't have lost interest.
Unions arent like employers. I can survive without a union, I need income and if I'm going to give a union 100 a month then they need to be giving value for money.
Its a personal choice.
I'm pleased you are happy with your choice and I'm sorry your woman cheated on you. Maybe if you spent less time on the union website she wouldn't have lost interest.
