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Working Life After Flying

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Working Life After Flying

Old 1st May 2020, 12:22
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: A Gaelic Country
Posts: 0
There was a scheme about 5 years ago whereby graduates with Science based degrees could apply to become "Doctor Assistant" or "Assistant Doctor" - like a PA (Pilot's Assistant) once was.

I guess Google could help - or writing to a local NHS Authority? I don't have the links but I do know about it as I mentioned to my Uni daughter.

Dare I suggest Politics? Run for MP? Or Local Council?

It may be possible to switch to Merchant Navy Deck or ETO Officer BUT normally it is a 3 year Cadetship with age limits (I was one). Times have changed and rules changed so it may be possible to study for the writtens and Orals but then you need seatime. If any of you are Yacht Masters or Day Skippers then that may be more viable - one of my Army students is doing that very thing now due to the flying issues - but he has experience on yachts.
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Old 1st May 2020, 12:47
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 1

You touched on something I was looking to offer forward.. Just a suggestion regarding yachts.

Wonderful ex colleague struck down with cancer that took away any imagination of regaining a UK or other class one med.

He took his skills to the local sailing school and after now some time at school and training is delivering for a good income .. Sailing boats all over the world.. Navigation, charted, timetables and people skills .. Might be a little lonely at times but for a couple that wish to travel, it’s really small investment to gain a certificate to sail with others at first and gain miles, experience etc..

Just a thought, especially for those younger passionate types. Can always come back to flying

advent is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 13:55
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 461
I know this is not the usual direction, (indeed, its almost always the opposite) but what do people think about applying to the RAF / RN / Army Air Corps? (or equivalent groups in your country - i'm UK based.) Obviously the salary is nowhere near what you earn at the airlines, but for someone who's young enough to be able to join (26 is the max. age I believe), who likely doesn't yet have too many other commitments other than the training loan , they could therefore cut their cloth to meet their new needs.

Anyone here with any experience of making that move, or is in at the moment and has any insight into how viable that is?
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Old 1st May 2020, 14:10
  #44 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,183
Originally Posted by Train2Plane View Post
Train Driver here. Circa 61k for our company when qualified, 14-18 months of training. I know drivers who have grossed 6 figures with overtime etc. Was doing my commercial ratings for flying and grateful to have a career on the railway. Don’t just do it for the money. All driver training training stopped currently and recruitment for Trainee Drivers frozen. Not a career you can ‘just walk into’.
Good luck.
PM if anyone wants more details.

I gave up flying after 22000 hours. I drive trains.. never been happier!!
SOPS is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 14:39
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,830
If you're seriously considering jumping from aviation to something else, my advice is don't lock yourselves into any one single career. The day and age of a single line of work/career is over. Use the time wisely right now to learn a trade that can be practiced as a freelancer. Plenty of trades out there, it doesn't have to be something that involves manipulating or moving objects. Do something that can be scaled up and down as necessary or even done alongside a flying job. The flying bug will most likely return one day.
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Old 1st May 2020, 15:38
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 163
Originally Posted by realECMLdriver View Post
Completely understand that these are emotional times, as mentioned above. I was almost ready to apply and put myself through training and I certainly feel I've gotten a lot from reading these forums over the years so if there's anything I can do to give a little back to those who are interested then I'd be all too happy to help.

I'll go as far as to say if anyone is travelling into/out of Kings Cross on the East Coast line, whether for leisure or commuting, feel free to let me know and if I'm available then I don't mind having a socially distanced chat about anything you wish to know.
im sure you know but my post wasn’t aimed at you, quite the opposite. I think it’s welcome suggestions!
Cliff Secord is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 16:25
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oxford UK
Age: 41
Posts: 117
Well this is the 4th time I've lost my job as a pilot. I handed my notice in in December as was offered an April start at BA thinking this was the most stable job I'd ever have. This was retracted in March after I'd just finished line training my replacement at the old job..

The industry is ridiculous. Yes I've been paid very well, but the time away from home and constant uncertainty is for me now not worth it. So, I've just been offered a job as an Emergency Care Assistant for an ambulance trust. The money is terrible, but there is a clear career path up to through paramedic and beyond on published pay scales. The industry is recession proof and I sleep in my own bed every night. I can move anywhere in the country if I feel like it, and get an NHS pension when I'm done. The best bit for me is the people I see are truly grateful, and surprisingly medicine and aviation have learned a lot from each other.
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Old 1st May 2020, 16:46
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA (back from Germany again)
Posts: 192
Silver Lining/Lemonade?

I lost a job in 2002. My undergraduate degree is nuclear physics. I had some experience with "special weapons" in a younger life. I was hired in 1993 to work in a facility that produced the plutonium for those very same devices. I was one of 27,000 people working there, with a focus on processioning the waste remaining from Pu production. I was laid off 9.79 years later (The number is important because for benefits they truncate rather than round. Pension is at 65 unless age 60 with ten or more years.)

There were six rounds of layoffs ahead of me eliminating 10,000 people from the workforce. I was let go in a group of 47. In 2002 people still wrote checks in the grocery store. The cashier would ask for a work telephone number. Thankfully I was an Army Reservist and I used that office phone number. What would have happened if I said, "Sorry, I don't have a job?"

The Army Reserve weekend-per-month income made a huge difference between going broke slowly or quickly.

Within several months I had found a job as a high school science teacher for the school year starting in August. I knew I would be ok, but it was depressing with no money to spare and a lot of time on my hands. Plus two young kids and newly divorced.

Eleven years later I left teaching and became an Army Civil Servant. I just had my sixth anniversary. I like what I do. I purchased my military time in my civilian retirement. I'm going to work one more year, then "retire" at age 61.

Why "retire" with quotes? I am going to start a new career. The local aviation charter company approached me a while back. They have used their flight instructors as SIC in their charter business (Part 135 if you care about FAA vocabulary). These instructors would get 1499 hours with a couple hundred as King Air SIC and go get an entry level airline job. So, the charter company is hiring/training experienced pilots with a tie to the community to be SIC. I just turned 60; I'm not looking for an airline career. I can, however, be SIC for several years, allowing a good return on their training costs. I have the opportunity to be Captain eventually. So, just as "Shelter in place" was ramping up I finished training and passed the checkride for FAA multi-engine commercial pilot. I have about 900 hours with 70 multi-engine. This would be a stepping stone for many, but it's a wonderful continued opportunity for me.

I don't care for the term "new normal" but it does often apply. Most everyone eventually "lands on their feet." Most clouds do "have a silver lining" (hmm), and "when life gives you lemons, you can make lemonade." Trite clichés don't always help, but most people will work something out. Having been there, I can sympathize with the loss of a professional salary and a decimated pension plan.
LTCTerry is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 18:38
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA, US
Posts: 18
There's also another thread on FlyerTalk which might be of interest. Since these forums are predominately aviation professionals, it's another aviation related community to reach out to. Best of luck to you all during these difficult times.

For BA staff (and others) affected by the current pandemic
carmel is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 22:22
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 26
3500 hour, FO at a 'flag carrier';
I'm currently working my 3 month notice period, if I'm lucky I'll return in the seat next spring but I'm mentally and financially preparing for a 2-3 year 'break' (I'm also fully aware I might never manipulate the controls of an airliner again).

I have an HGV license I'm renewing for the short term but this fall I'll start training as an electrician. I can't see myself working 9-5 ever again and I've never heard of an unemployed electrician.... Also I see it as a good side-gig with flying if things brighten up.

Best case scenario I'll continue my flying career with a small contractor business on the side, worst case scenario I'll never fly again but be a certified electrician.

Rocade is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 01:15
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: everywhere
Posts: 152
Has anyone here considered trading on the stock exchange?
A320LGW is online now  
Old 2nd May 2020, 06:55
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
Has anyone here considered trading on the stock exchange?

not sure people will want to spill precious savings when they don’t know what they are doing
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Old 2nd May 2020, 09:10
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 947
When i was 17 i did the Christmas post for 8 days, would be a winter with a few inches of snow on the ground. But when i finished on the eight day, i was sad to finish. I really enjoyed walking the streets and people starting to recognise me and say hello. People busy going to work, mother taking kids to school. A real community spirit. I always thought if i couldn't get a job i would apply to the post office.
Instead i got a job in my other interest, engineering draughtsman. Which then paid for my aviation career.

I've also always had the attitude if not happy in a job, walk out. Something always turns up.
BigEndBob is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 10:46
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Age: 30
Posts: 217
BigEndBob, try doing the post for 8 years, not 8 days like I did! Royal Mail was a decent enough job. It provided a means to an end and allowed me to self fund all my CPL/IR. I didn’t detest it, but the ‘good old days’ are long gone there too. No more offers of full time employment. Only part time contracts which most usually make up by doing overtime. Appalling management though and not a very well run firm.

I miss the colleagues, the banter and of course my old customers I used to deliver to. I don’t miss working outside in the wind and rain though
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Old 2nd May 2020, 11:17
  #55 (permalink)  
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 497
This suggestion may not be for everyone, so apologies in advance. But if you have an engineering degree, some of you may wish to consider teaching Engineering in the Further Education sector. There's a national shortage of engineering lecturers in FE at the moment across disciplines such as Electrical/Electronic Engineering, Mechanical Engineering as well as more specialist disciplines such as Mechatronics, Robotics and Building Services Engineering.

Top scale FE Lecturer salaries tend to be in the £35-38k region, and because of the shortage, even if you don't have a teaching qualification such as a PGCE and have no prior teaching experience, colleges will sometimes salary-match to the most appropriate scale point. If you're currently earning above the £38k (which I suspect most of you are), colleges won't go above it, but they could very well put you straight in on top-scale. Annual holidays are in the 55-65 days-per-year region depending on the college. Teaching is in the region of 22-24 hours per week, and the rest is your admin time (preparation, marking etc).

Lecturing jobs are usually advertised on TES Jobs and FE Jobs, as well as on college websites.

Teaching isn't for everyone, but if anyone wants more information, please feel free to PM me. There are 2x full-time, permanent Mechanical Engineering lectureship vacancies about to be advertised at my college (Midlands area).

I wish you all the very best.
scruggs is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 12:12
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Shipley
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
Has anyone here considered trading on the stock exchange?
The professionals will clean you out. Much as you would win, if you made a bet with a stock broker, about who can fly the best raw data ILS.
LessPepper is offline  
Old 2nd May 2020, 12:30
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: everywhere
Posts: 152
I get your point and I do not contest the argument made. But are there not large numbers of independent (amateur if you will) traders who still manage to make money out of it? Considering many markets and stocks are on the floor (though fast recovering in many sectors so one needs to be quick) is it not a good time to get involved? The stocks can only go up I mean.

I'm not speaking of investing in volatile markets or companies, but there are a number of 'safe' investments that can allow you to sleep at night and which show solid overall growth over a number of years, if one can see past the day to day ups and downs.
A320LGW is online now  
Old 2nd May 2020, 13:14
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Shipley
Posts: 6
You’re right, I know such a professional amateur. But it is real work, this guy hasn’t taken a holiday in years, it’s serious business if you want to beat the market and get a return above that which the index would offer. My point was if you think it’s an easy dabble, it’s a bit like saying being a pilot is about pushing one ‘Autopilot’ button and that’s about it.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 13:17
  #59 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 626
Retired from full time flying in 2018 and initially kept contact with the training organisations as a TRE,,however after about 6 months of lets say "odd hours" sims i.e those the full time guys didn't want to do I realised my enthusiasm was draining away and after a look in the mirror I had become the "old fart" that I objected to when I started training in the 90's.. Knocked the sim work on the head and started working evenings 3 days a week at a supermarket warehouse, quite a good happy bunch there but it didn't take long for the rumour mill to turn on and every tea break was asked "did you ever get scared, or what emergencies did you have" and was constantly called "captain" in a jocular way. Quite enjoyed the peace and relative lack of accountability and responsibility but the absence of mental stimulus meant I couldn't maintain motivation or easily integrate and was never going to a Christmas do, moreover I didn't want to feel I was "judging" my work colleagues as I quickly learnt they were intact happy and content in their employment, so I left and applied to A DIY chain as a "customer advisor', drawing on my interpersonal skills and logical brain!. After 4 months I was summoned to the head office and asked if I would consider being a store manager, but this would mean moving, which for me is not an option. When I enquired "why" they had asked me, i was told that whilst many customer reps try and "sell" things when giving advice, the feedback they had was that I had been helpful but not pushy and the returning customer count for foot traffic had increased. With Covid we are basically shut down and I'm thinking of simply doing voluntary driving work for a special needs organisation where they have retention problems simply as people do not want to adhere to health and safety procedures and work practices. I guess the moral of the story is that we become robotic and used to operating in a strict procedural environment and transitioning to "civvy street" make take some time before you find your niche. Don't disregard the people skills and logical thought processes ingrained in you and the ability to manage others, play on this at any interview. One word of caution, I would say that 95% of the "interviewers " felt intimidated by my previous experience and authority and it took perhaps 10 minutes of quiet talking, if you like puffing their feathers, to get them to see I was genuine about wanting a different career. Curiously, and perhaps uncomfortably, the senior management in these companies seemed to make a "B-line" towards me when doing visits and I felt this was more of a social class thing than anything else. Accept as a retired Pilot you will probably never be "one of the lads" and adjust your persona accordingly, I used to tell them under the tough was a hells angel waiting to escape! Asked why I still want to work, even with a comfy life, I told them to preserve the status quo at home and stop me wrecking my marriage, again, takes time to adjust.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 14:17
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,597
Nice one, Kirk, good post

Mrs Uplinker, (a former purser, amongst other things), cannot even get an interview at the local supermarkets for shelf stacking. We cannot understand why, but their shelf stackers etc. are young, and the management might be put off by Mrs U's experience and abilities. She has now started dumbing down her CV.

We, (pilots and aircrew), probably believe that our reliability and experience with customer care and operations in a highly technical and exacting environment will make us more employable, but maybe not?
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