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seniority lists discussion..... Again!

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seniority lists discussion..... Again!

Old 6th Apr 2020, 05:18
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Pay being an obvious one but again look to the current world systems for solutions.
But how many specialised jobs types are there in the world where hundreds if not thousands of people are employed by one of a small number of companies doing a nearly indential job?

I would speculate there are more transport category jet pilots than orthopedic surgeons for example.
There are more probably more accountants than pilots, but there are equally more accountancy firms than airlines.
If there was a transparent way to job hop then sure, but as non-seniorty appointments (TREs etc) prove, its wishful thinking that it will be entirely merit based.

Abandon rank, we aren't in the military, simply be named or designated senior pilot and pilot, it puts an end to chasing command
The problem is that command is where the money is, and I for one have no interest in taking additional responsibility for the operation if there is no additional compensation... and I doubt the airlines will put everyone through a command course to merely designate day by day who is senior pilot / pilot.

I dont doubt airlines would continue to operate perfectly fine without seniority, but what a pain in the a#$% it would be as a pilot trying to navigate your way to career-life balance as the invisible goal posts change (speaking from a non seniority experience).


Last edited by Lapon; 6th Apr 2020 at 05:49.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 06:30
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Again. I really donít see the purpose of the discussion. There are hundreds of companies that do not have a seniority system. You can apply there if you donít fancy seniority.

besides that I think it is extremely selfish to, now that you experience a crisis, think you could jump the que whereas there are plenty of guys / girls (myself included) who have been made redundant before and accepted to start at the bottom again. We have a few Thomas Cook guys who just did that...
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 07:07
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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You are completely correct in that there are plenty of non seniority companies for the anti camp to work in.

I suspect the seniority based ones are typically the more desirable too for reasons unique to each individual.

As SG says, it's rather selfish to suggest another system is flawed because you cannot join it without penatly, regardless of your reasons for wanting to do so.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 08:23
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Will you airline pilots be desperately trying to join a cargo airline or bizjet company now? Just to have a flying job or will you change careers? Interesting previous history on applications
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 08:31
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 3RDi View Post
Will you airline pilots be desperately trying to join a cargo airline or bizjet company now? Just to have a flying job or will you change careers? Interesting previous history on applications
I would take cargo over airlines any day, having done years of airline flying I can truly say Im over it and have no desire to go back. Having a family to support though means I would go back for their sake if I had no choice and a good opportunity arose.

All being equal though I would take cargo if given the choice.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 10:13
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 3RDi View Post
Will you airline pilots be desperately trying to join a cargo airline or bizjet company now? Just to have a flying job or will you change careers? Interesting previous history on applications
No I'm not, I dont hold the pax airlines on a pedestal but they do suit my lifestyle. I would sooner persue the biz or cargo scene before changing career however. In the theme of the thread I would expect to start at the bottom of course.

Last edited by Lapon; 7th Apr 2020 at 01:43.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 13:44
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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A point of pointless pedantry. If you fly cargo, you work for an airline as much as if you fly pax.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 15:48
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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My last airline was a cargo airline. I was there for 19 years and although it had its moments, it was an excellent job. We always did particularly well when the world was in crisis and it was so refreshingly hassle-free after many years of flying punters.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 18:08
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Quite confident most crew that brought value to their company will have a job to go back to. Hope you score well on your evaluations. If not, all the best competing with cargo drivers. Trying your luck in business aviation is going to be difficult as you won’t be made captain should you be fortunate to be considered in the first place. If unless you have experience in this sector. It’s well known airline men/women don’t prefer bizjets and are not considered.

What alternative careers would you consider? Someone mentioned becoming a surgeon, for example
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Old 7th Apr 2020, 01:49
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Alternative careers would generally involve going to back to a previous line of work (aviation was a career change for me many years ago anyway), or persue a new interest if the the immediacy of a paycheck was not important.
Talking to most now redundant pilots I know (airline-pax) they intent to get back into it when things pick up in the months or years ahead. The only variation is what they will spend that time doing, and that is a function of thier own financial security at this moment in time.
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Old 8th Apr 2020, 20:29
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP View Post
Is that ridiculous reply because you havenít got an answer to the question? Iíll ask again for them, why donít you tell us how would you decide? Quality of receipt photos when claiming expenses? Length of PAs given? Tightness of tie knot?
I have so many answers to your stupid statement in these very trying times ...!
i will start with priorities of a situation , and end with the tightness of YOUR knot,
git
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Old 15th Apr 2020, 08:02
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Worth having a read of the various Wizz threads to see what life is like when the axe swings in an airline where you have no Seniority List and no Union to represent you. And it ain't over yet.
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Old 10th May 2020, 15:03
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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I spent most of my airline career on reserve due to the position of hitting a hiring freeze first right after hire as FO, then shortly after upgrade to Captain. It was my experience that having seniority decide every single decision caused a vast disparity in lifestyle between top seniority pilots, who had 20 days off a month, and people who were stuck 2-leg commuting to reserve to outstation bases.

It created an unhealthy competitive atmosphere where every pilot was willing to step on someone else's situation hard in order to make theirs even a tiny amount better. I applied for Netjets after hearing from friends there who seemed much better treated. From what I understood, their system was much more balanced, as most pilots were on the same 7 days on, 7 days off system, but preferential schedule only shifted the days. That would have prevented ridiculous situations like mine, where I worked every weekend and holiday.

Pilots at Netjets were also provided revenue tickets to their bases, given they lived within a certain distance from a major airport. I felt this was a much better way to treat pilots than my airline, which displaced pilots after closing a base, but forced you to fend for yourself with nonrevenue flying.

After being in the corporate non-flying world for nearly as long as I was in flying (10 years flying, 9 corporate), no system is perfect, but the industry seems to be the prime driver of quality of life, followed by company culture. If you can find both of those, even a seniority system won't put you at a disadvantage if everyone is treated well.
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Old 11th May 2020, 05:16
  #134 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by macdo View Post
Worth having a read of the various Wizz threads to see what life is like when the axe swings in an airline where you have no Seniority List and no Union to represent you. And it ain't over yet.
Worth trying to understand what it actually says there, albeit admittedly the popcorn is in the micro to see how seniority and LIFO are going to work for BA. History, forget, repeat.
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Old 11th May 2020, 11:35
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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And Norwegian.....Send us your CV via facebook so we can keep in touch when and if we rehire on new and exciting industry leading T&Cs.
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