Aegean A320 TR - Chances of FO position?
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Aegean A320 TR - Chances of FO position?
Hi everyone,
I was reading through Aegean's website and stumbled upon their typerating courses(cant post URL's, but first hit on Google "Aegean type rating" gets you there).
Does anyone know anything about the cost, quality, chances of employment after succesful completion of the cource etc.?
I did some digging on PPR and found that it used to cost 21k back in 2016 - Would like to know if anyone knows if that figure is still correct?
Cheers from the North!
I was reading through Aegean's website and stumbled upon their typerating courses(cant post URL's, but first hit on Google "Aegean type rating" gets you there).
Does anyone know anything about the cost, quality, chances of employment after succesful completion of the cource etc.?
I did some digging on PPR and found that it used to cost 21k back in 2016 - Would like to know if anyone knows if that figure is still correct?
Cheers from the North!
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I dont quite think you follow me here, Daddy Fantastic.
The reason for asking about employment after completion of typerating is EXACTLY to avoid P2F.
I don't see buying a typerating as being P2F - Sadly, that is just how the industry has evolved through time. Not to admit to that fact is making a fool of yourself.
The reason for asking about employment after completion of typerating is EXACTLY to avoid P2F.
I don't see buying a typerating as being P2F - Sadly, that is just how the industry has evolved through time. Not to admit to that fact is making a fool of yourself.
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Its not P2F. I looked into it before ending up at my current gig. 21k in 2016 but think its 25k now.
Major stopper for most is you used to have to speak Greek/have Greek background that may have changed.
Get paid from day 1 but salary is very low for jet job think take home is around 3k a month. You will also be bonded for another 10k for 2 years.
Major stopper for most is you used to have to speak Greek/have Greek background that may have changed.
Get paid from day 1 but salary is very low for jet job think take home is around 3k a month. You will also be bonded for another 10k for 2 years.
Conditions for DEC are good; about FO around 4k if >500 . Can anyone confirm this?
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Theres another aegean thread here a bit lower down on the page, has some quite decent stuff.
-M
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Would definitely rather be flying Airbus with a decent company rather than joining O'Leary's army of 5 year bonds with no idea where your next base will be - Plus, flying in and out of the Greek's majestic islands - That would be a treat!
Only half a speed-brake
If we can bridge this back somehow, in the spirit of helping each other.
1) I spent 1 summer with Aegean at a small island base, and it was the highlight of my career (not that I understood it by then). Supportive, respectful and good mentors. Hell of knowledgeable aviators with varied backgrounds and very professional standards. We're speaking Lufthansa with a hug, seriously.
2) We worked a lot and were offered to do even more (9 months/y) for those who could and dared. As much as thoroughly enjoyable the duties were, my home life (I tried to commute as much as possible) was reduced to 4 nights at the house each month, i.e. non-existent. Few people managed to have their significant other(s) with them down in Mediterrean, and would return for the next season repeteadly.
3) It is 6 years ago, the money was good, agency excellent (pre-CAE days). Only for the summer contractors though, the local pilots had their salaries much less cushy with an enormous tax levy and no other in-country options with an AB rating. The talks of the emerging ATO then were not received with much joy by the group, fearing and understananding the change of supply-demand landscape it would bring.
4) I have no understanding what the developments were after my visit.
Though I did not follow too closely for the last 3 years, the 140 k GBP "cadetships" of the last decade are a dishonorable extortion and P2F. On the basis of cash-flow balance up to the 500 hrs stage, compared even against the ruthless commercial TR+line training packages. Speaking of which - I flown both alongside and with people who did that. The only rich guy funded by his parents' money is now a longhaul FO with a unionized major in his home country, having made it through 3 other airlines on his way up and home. The brightest and most sponge-like for knowledge kid I met so far. Be assured, 100 hrs in Atlas Jet DOES NOT give you ANYTHING useful to climb that ladder, it is all lonely hard work and pulling own bootstraps. Out of the dozen or so other people who financed themselves, many fed the family with seriously werid jobs. Yet both the talented and marginal, all proven resilience and commitment to the proffesion beyond what I ever needed to show with my 3 rating all paid by the airlines.
Surely, single pilot ME/IR work north of the 50 parallel may well be the most demanding commerical assignment there is. With no radar, no de-ice, boxes for a company on a windy night and a loadsheet inside the limits only because the owner says so, there is absolutely no breast feeding involved. Moving out for greener pastures may require an investment in EU, such is the era. The evolution of technology and operational wisdom in the industry put T&C over time onto a downsloping plane. It was the reality 20 years before, today's the same, and it will be so 20 from now. Systems like the EGPWS, state of the art fuel level sensing, predictive windshear, moving map FMS, satellite weather are part of the geometry, as well as cross-border employment, international licencing, English language commonality, online courseware and the general peaceful times we are enjoying at the beginning of the 21st century.
For an A320 rating, the real cost is 12000 EUR. My ME/IR cost more than that even without inflation adjustment when I needed to obtain one (2001-ish). About five years prior, the older generation of pilots had been completely flabbergasted that the youngsters were required to shell the cash at all. Their reasonable and justifed view was something mandated by the commerial job should squarely have been the employer's responsibility. Pantha rhei!
A functional path a single person or a smaller group can take to assure we are not de-vauled too much (swimming against the tide), is to excel in what we do. Motivate others and grow ourselves, become prized. Grieved resentments towards the more street-smart and adaptable colleagues, even if rightfully seen as competitors at some stage, do not achieve that goal and I've tested that on myself.
If large scale politics is to be played, it needs to be nothing else but the Social and Health insurance avoding schemes (Irish LTDs), under siege with all what we have. To assure even application of agreed laws, level playing fields and more breathing room for the sincere employers who aspire to evolve beyond leeching on their workforce and young people's dreams.
1) I spent 1 summer with Aegean at a small island base, and it was the highlight of my career (not that I understood it by then). Supportive, respectful and good mentors. Hell of knowledgeable aviators with varied backgrounds and very professional standards. We're speaking Lufthansa with a hug, seriously.
2) We worked a lot and were offered to do even more (9 months/y) for those who could and dared. As much as thoroughly enjoyable the duties were, my home life (I tried to commute as much as possible) was reduced to 4 nights at the house each month, i.e. non-existent. Few people managed to have their significant other(s) with them down in Mediterrean, and would return for the next season repeteadly.
3) It is 6 years ago, the money was good, agency excellent (pre-CAE days). Only for the summer contractors though, the local pilots had their salaries much less cushy with an enormous tax levy and no other in-country options with an AB rating. The talks of the emerging ATO then were not received with much joy by the group, fearing and understananding the change of supply-demand landscape it would bring.
4) I have no understanding what the developments were after my visit.
Though I did not follow too closely for the last 3 years, the 140 k GBP "cadetships" of the last decade are a dishonorable extortion and P2F. On the basis of cash-flow balance up to the 500 hrs stage, compared even against the ruthless commercial TR+line training packages. Speaking of which - I flown both alongside and with people who did that. The only rich guy funded by his parents' money is now a longhaul FO with a unionized major in his home country, having made it through 3 other airlines on his way up and home. The brightest and most sponge-like for knowledge kid I met so far. Be assured, 100 hrs in Atlas Jet DOES NOT give you ANYTHING useful to climb that ladder, it is all lonely hard work and pulling own bootstraps. Out of the dozen or so other people who financed themselves, many fed the family with seriously werid jobs. Yet both the talented and marginal, all proven resilience and commitment to the proffesion beyond what I ever needed to show with my 3 rating all paid by the airlines.
Surely, single pilot ME/IR work north of the 50 parallel may well be the most demanding commerical assignment there is. With no radar, no de-ice, boxes for a company on a windy night and a loadsheet inside the limits only because the owner says so, there is absolutely no breast feeding involved. Moving out for greener pastures may require an investment in EU, such is the era. The evolution of technology and operational wisdom in the industry put T&C over time onto a downsloping plane. It was the reality 20 years before, today's the same, and it will be so 20 from now. Systems like the EGPWS, state of the art fuel level sensing, predictive windshear, moving map FMS, satellite weather are part of the geometry, as well as cross-border employment, international licencing, English language commonality, online courseware and the general peaceful times we are enjoying at the beginning of the 21st century.
For an A320 rating, the real cost is 12000 EUR. My ME/IR cost more than that even without inflation adjustment when I needed to obtain one (2001-ish). About five years prior, the older generation of pilots had been completely flabbergasted that the youngsters were required to shell the cash at all. Their reasonable and justifed view was something mandated by the commerial job should squarely have been the employer's responsibility. Pantha rhei!
A functional path a single person or a smaller group can take to assure we are not de-vauled too much (swimming against the tide), is to excel in what we do. Motivate others and grow ourselves, become prized. Grieved resentments towards the more street-smart and adaptable colleagues, even if rightfully seen as competitors at some stage, do not achieve that goal and I've tested that on myself.
If large scale politics is to be played, it needs to be nothing else but the Social and Health insurance avoding schemes (Irish LTDs), under siege with all what we have. To assure even application of agreed laws, level playing fields and more breathing room for the sincere employers who aspire to evolve beyond leeching on their workforce and young people's dreams.
Last edited by FlightDetent; 16th Feb 2019 at 04:48. Reason: Grammar, spelling, grammar
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If we can bridge this back somehow, in the spirit of helping each other.
1) I spent 1 summer with Aegean at a small island base, and it was the highlight of my career (not that I understood it by then). Supportive, respectful and good mentors. Hell of knowledgeable aviators with varied backgrounds and very proffesional standards. We're speaking Lufthansa with a hug, seriously.
2) We worked a lot and were offered to do even more (9 months/y) for those who could and dared. As much as thoroughly enjoyable the duties were, my home life (I tried to commute as much as possible) was reduced to 4 nights at the house each month, i.e. non-existent. Few people managed to have their significant other(s) with them down in Mediterrean, and would return for the next season repeteadly.
3) It is 6 years ago, the money was good, agency excellent (pre-CAE days). Only for the summer contractors though, the local pilots had their salaries much less cushy with an enormous tax levy and no other in-country options with an AB rating. The talks of the emerging ATO then were not received with much joy by the group, fearing and understananding the change of supply-demand landscape it would bring.
4) I have no understanding what the developments were after my visit.
Though I did not follow too closely for the last 3 years, the 140 k GBP "cadetships" of the last decade are a dishonorable extortion and P2F. On the basis of cash-flow balance up to the 500 hrs stage, compared even against the ruthless commercial TR+line training packages. Speaking of which - I flown both alongside and with people who did that. The only rich guy funded by his parents' money is now a longhaul FO with a unionized major in his home country, having made it through 3 other airlines on his way up and home. The brightest and most sponge-like for knowledge kid I met so far. Be assured, 100 hrs in Atlas Jet DOES NOT give you ANYTHING useful to climb that ladder, it is all lonely hard work and pulling own bootstraps. Out of the dozen or so other people who financed themselves, many fed the family with seriously werid jobs. Yet both the talented and marginal, all proven resilience and commitment to the proffesion beyond what I ever needed to show with my 3 rating all paid by the airlines.
Surely, single pilot ME/IR work north of the 50 parallel may well be the most demanding commerical assignment there is. With no radar, no de-ice, boxes for a company on a windy night and a loadsheet inside the limits only because the owner says so, there is absolutely no breast feeding involved. Moving out for greener pastures may require an investment in EU, such is the era. The evolution of technology and operational wisdom in the industry put T&C over time onto a downsloping plane. It was the reality 20 years before, today's the same, and it will be so 20 from now. Systems like the EGPWS, state of the art fuel level sensing, predictive windshear, moving map FMS, satellite weather are part of the geometry, as well as cross-border employment, international licencing, English language commonality, online courseware and the general peaceful times we are enjoying at the beginning of the 21st century.
For an A320 rating, the real cost is 12000 EUR. My ME/IR cost more than that even without inflation adjustment when I needed to obtain one (2001-ish). About five years prior, the older generation of pilots had been completely flabbergasted that the youngsters were required to shell the cash at all. Their reasonable and justifed view was something mandated by the commerial job should squarely have been the employer's responsibility. Pantha rhei!
A functional path a single person or a smaller group can take to assure we are not de-vauled too much (swimming against the tide), is to excel in what we do. Motivate others and grow ourselves, become prized. Grieved resentments towards the more street-smart and adaptable colleagues, even if rightfully seen as competitors at some stage, do not achieve that goal and I've tested that on myself.
If large scale politics is to be played, it needs to be nothing else but the Social and Health insurance avoding schemes (Irish LTDs), under siege with all what we have. To assure even application of agreed laws, level playing fields and more breathing room for the sincere employers who aspire to evolve beyond leeching on their workforce and young people's dreams.
1) I spent 1 summer with Aegean at a small island base, and it was the highlight of my career (not that I understood it by then). Supportive, respectful and good mentors. Hell of knowledgeable aviators with varied backgrounds and very proffesional standards. We're speaking Lufthansa with a hug, seriously.
2) We worked a lot and were offered to do even more (9 months/y) for those who could and dared. As much as thoroughly enjoyable the duties were, my home life (I tried to commute as much as possible) was reduced to 4 nights at the house each month, i.e. non-existent. Few people managed to have their significant other(s) with them down in Mediterrean, and would return for the next season repeteadly.
3) It is 6 years ago, the money was good, agency excellent (pre-CAE days). Only for the summer contractors though, the local pilots had their salaries much less cushy with an enormous tax levy and no other in-country options with an AB rating. The talks of the emerging ATO then were not received with much joy by the group, fearing and understananding the change of supply-demand landscape it would bring.
4) I have no understanding what the developments were after my visit.
Though I did not follow too closely for the last 3 years, the 140 k GBP "cadetships" of the last decade are a dishonorable extortion and P2F. On the basis of cash-flow balance up to the 500 hrs stage, compared even against the ruthless commercial TR+line training packages. Speaking of which - I flown both alongside and with people who did that. The only rich guy funded by his parents' money is now a longhaul FO with a unionized major in his home country, having made it through 3 other airlines on his way up and home. The brightest and most sponge-like for knowledge kid I met so far. Be assured, 100 hrs in Atlas Jet DOES NOT give you ANYTHING useful to climb that ladder, it is all lonely hard work and pulling own bootstraps. Out of the dozen or so other people who financed themselves, many fed the family with seriously werid jobs. Yet both the talented and marginal, all proven resilience and commitment to the proffesion beyond what I ever needed to show with my 3 rating all paid by the airlines.
Surely, single pilot ME/IR work north of the 50 parallel may well be the most demanding commerical assignment there is. With no radar, no de-ice, boxes for a company on a windy night and a loadsheet inside the limits only because the owner says so, there is absolutely no breast feeding involved. Moving out for greener pastures may require an investment in EU, such is the era. The evolution of technology and operational wisdom in the industry put T&C over time onto a downsloping plane. It was the reality 20 years before, today's the same, and it will be so 20 from now. Systems like the EGPWS, state of the art fuel level sensing, predictive windshear, moving map FMS, satellite weather are part of the geometry, as well as cross-border employment, international licencing, English language commonality, online courseware and the general peaceful times we are enjoying at the beginning of the 21st century.
For an A320 rating, the real cost is 12000 EUR. My ME/IR cost more than that even without inflation adjustment when I needed to obtain one (2001-ish). About five years prior, the older generation of pilots had been completely flabbergasted that the youngsters were required to shell the cash at all. Their reasonable and justifed view was something mandated by the commerial job should squarely have been the employer's responsibility. Pantha rhei!
A functional path a single person or a smaller group can take to assure we are not de-vauled too much (swimming against the tide), is to excel in what we do. Motivate others and grow ourselves, become prized. Grieved resentments towards the more street-smart and adaptable colleagues, even if rightfully seen as competitors at some stage, do not achieve that goal and I've tested that on myself.
If large scale politics is to be played, it needs to be nothing else but the Social and Health insurance avoding schemes (Irish LTDs), under siege with all what we have. To assure even application of agreed laws, level playing fields and more breathing room for the sincere employers who aspire to evolve beyond leeching on their workforce and young people's dreams.
Yes, it is indeed a time where we all should stick together and wait for the airlines to wake up to a future, where self-sponsored TR's are a thing of the past. Sadly, there will always be a more desparat or vulnerable individual in the world that thinks skipping to the front of the line by buying a rating directly from an ATO.
If only we were able to stand up for each other, as professionals. Maybe in the next life.
Only half a speed-brake
You may have mis-read my message completely, sir. If the fault is on my side, quite likely, I would be happy to re-phrase on some other, more appropriate, thread.
Nevertheless, based on my outdated experience: if one’s path takes you to Aegean - be ready to learn. The possibilities for personal growth there are enormous. Likewise, be ready to have a time of your life.
Nevertheless, based on my outdated experience: if one’s path takes you to Aegean - be ready to learn. The possibilities for personal growth there are enormous. Likewise, be ready to have a time of your life.
