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Aegean A320 TR - Chances of FO position?

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Aegean A320 TR - Chances of FO position?

Old 9th Feb 2019, 14:35
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Feb 2019
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Aegean A320 TR - Chances of FO position?

Hi everyone,

I was reading through Aegean's website and stumbled upon their typerating courses(cant post URL's, but first hit on Google "Aegean type rating" gets you there).

Does anyone know anything about the cost, quality, chances of employment after succesful completion of the cource etc.?
I did some digging on PPR and found that it used to cost Ä21k back in 2016 - Would like to know if anyone knows if that figure is still correct?

Cheers from the North!
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 16:29
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Join Date: May 2018
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NO P2F

STOP destroying the indusry with P2F....Are you an idiot?
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 18:41
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I dont quite think you follow me here, Daddy Fantastic.
The reason for asking about employment after completion of typerating is EXACTLY to avoid P2F.
I don't see buying a typerating as being P2F - Sadly, that is just how the industry has evolved through time. Not to admit to that fact is making a fool of yourself.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 19:26
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Its not P2F. I looked into it before ending up at my current gig. Ä21k in 2016 but think itís Ä25k now.
Major stopper for most is you used to have to speak Greek/have Greek background that may have changed.
Get paid from day 1 but salary is very low for jet job think take home is around Ä3k a month. You will also be bonded for another Ä10k for 2 years.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 10:54
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Its not P2F. I looked into it before ending up at my current gig. Ä21k in 2016 but think itís Ä25k now.
Major stopper for most is you used to have to speak Greek/have Greek background that may have changed.
Get paid from day 1 but salary is very low for jet job think take home is around Ä3k a month. You will also be bonded for another Ä10k for 2 years.
Good morning AIMINGHIGH123. Are you sure about this? I have read something around Aegean here ( and i have some ex aegean chaps in my company).

Conditions for DEC are good; about FO around 4k if >500 . Can anyone confirm this?
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 11:18
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1+F
 
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Aegean does not do P2F.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 16:09
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Originally Posted by 180Knots View Post
Good morning AIMINGHIGH123. Are you sure about this? I have read something around Aegean here ( and i have some ex aegean chaps in my company).

Conditions for DEC are good; about FO around 4k if >500 . Can anyone confirm this?
This was back in 2016. I went through all the tests just had to do a final interview. Did an assessment in Nov 2015 and some more in March 16. They took so long to get back to me I managed to have interview and a SIM at Flybe and had already started.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 17:08
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Originally Posted by 180Knots View Post
Good morning AIMINGHIGH123. Are you sure about this? I have read something around Aegean here ( and i have some ex aegean chaps in my company).

Conditions for DEC are good; about FO around 4k if >500 . Can anyone confirm this?
About FO pay, thats without housing allowance, housing is +1000 on top. Also these are gross figures.

Theres another aegean thread here a bit lower down on the page, has some quite decent stuff.

-M
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 22:58
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Originally Posted by 180Knots View Post
Good morning AIMINGHIGH123. Are you sure about this? I have read something around Aegean here ( and i have some ex aegean chaps in my company).

Conditions for DEC are good; about FO around 4k if >500 . Can anyone confirm this?
That sounds like a good deal to me - Thanks for the info, 180Knots!

Would definitely rather be flying Airbus with a decent company rather than joining O'Leary's army of 5 year bonds with no idea where your next base will be - Plus, flying in and out of the Greek's majestic islands - That would be a treat!
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 10:48
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It is P2F. The industry has never been so buoyant and you want to throw 25k away on a type rating.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 11:44
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Originally Posted by MCDU2 View Post
It is P2F. The industry has never been so buoyant and you want to throw 25k away on a type rating.

From personal experience I disagree.
I have never done P2F. P2F to me is you pay x amount for 500 hrs or just TR and LT without a guaranteed job. Aegean you are employed just you have to pay for TR.

Example A. Get a TP job as I did 3 years ago. Didn’t pay for anything up front all bonded but my take home pay is only £2500-£3000 a month been about the same for most of my time here.

Example B. Friend of mine paid £20k for B737 rating was paid by said airline about the same as I am making but he had no bond could leave at anytime. Now at a well known Northern UK airline taking home £3800-£4200 a month working much less than me to add.

If both companies went under who would get employed quicker?

Im against paying without guaranteed job but in my mates case he is far better off than me.

Using this method could work for Aegean for 1 or 2 years then jump to somewhere with much better pay go LH etc etc.
Yes the market is bouyent but still loads of low hour people out there.

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Old 11th Feb 2019, 21:55
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Jet2 you donít pay. However as a NTR you are bonded for more plus you only get 75% salary in the first year. TR get 100%.

What would you say that is?

Most airlines you pay for it somehow. Lower salary in first years or 5 year bond etc, unless you are going into a career airline you are going to have to pay to move on.

How long before the market slows up? This year. Next year. Anyone who joined an airline with a 5 year bond say you get a shot at say BA you would be mad to not take it if itís what you want. Pay up or wait and then they might not be recruiting when your bond is up.

Of course people do end up at an airline and say thatís it for me but not many. Certainly not at my airline.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 22:01
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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I was completely against paying for a TR until my mate did it. I told him he was mad.

Now he has out earnt me even with him paying for his TR. Options wise he has a lot of doors opening up.

For me I am still stuck as a TP operator, yes I enjoy it but Iím going to have to get on to an Airbus or Boeing at some point to allow me more options. It means taking an extra step. If I could rewind at my age I would do what my mate did pay for TR BUT ONLY if you are fully employed from day 1.

Last edited by AIMINGHIGH123; 11th Feb 2019 at 22:18.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 12:47
  #14 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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If we can bridge this back somehow, in the spirit of helping each other.

1) I spent 1 summer with Aegean at a small island base, and it was the highlight of my career (not that I understood it by then). Supportive, respectful and good mentors. Hell of knowledgeable aviators with varied backgrounds and very professional standards. We're speaking Lufthansa with a hug, seriously.

2) We worked a lot and were offered to do even more (9 months/y) for those who could and dared. As much as thoroughly enjoyable the duties were, my home life (I tried to commute as much as possible) was reduced to 4 nights at the house each month, i.e. non-existent. Few people managed to have their significant other(s) with them down in Mediterrean, and would return for the next season repeteadly.

3) It is 6 years ago, the money was good, agency excellent (pre-CAE days). Only for the summer contractors though, the local pilots had their salaries much less cushy with an enormous tax levy and no other in-country options with an AB rating. The talks of the emerging ATO then were not received with much joy by the group, fearing and understananding the change of supply-demand landscape it would bring.

4) I have no understanding what the developments were after my visit.

Though I did not follow too closely for the last 3 years, the 140 k GBP "cadetships" of the last decade are a dishonorable extortion and P2F. On the basis of cash-flow balance up to the 500 hrs stage, compared even against the ruthless commercial TR+line training packages. Speaking of which - I flown both alongside and with people who did that. The only rich guy funded by his parents' money is now a longhaul FO with a unionized major in his home country, having made it through 3 other airlines on his way up and home. The brightest and most sponge-like for knowledge kid I met so far. Be assured, 100 hrs in Atlas Jet DOES NOT give you ANYTHING useful to climb that ladder, it is all lonely hard work and pulling own bootstraps. Out of the dozen or so other people who financed themselves, many fed the family with seriously werid jobs. Yet both the talented and marginal, all proven resilience and commitment to the proffesion beyond what I ever needed to show with my 3 rating all paid by the airlines.

Surely, single pilot ME/IR work north of the 50 parallel may well be the most demanding commerical assignment there is. With no radar, no de-ice, boxes for a company on a windy night and a loadsheet inside the limits only because the owner says so, there is absolutely no breast feeding involved. Moving out for greener pastures may require an investment in EU, such is the era. The evolution of technology and operational wisdom in the industry put T&C over time onto a downsloping plane. It was the reality 20 years before, today's the same, and it will be so 20 from now. Systems like the EGPWS, state of the art fuel level sensing, predictive windshear, moving map FMS, satellite weather are part of the geometry, as well as cross-border employment, international licencing, English language commonality, online courseware and the general peaceful times we are enjoying at the beginning of the 21st century.

For an A320 rating, the real cost is 12000 EUR. My ME/IR cost more than that even without inflation adjustment when I needed to obtain one (2001-ish). About five years prior, the older generation of pilots had been completely flabbergasted that the youngsters were required to shell the cash at all. Their reasonable and justifed view was something mandated by the commerial job should squarely have been the employer's responsibility. Pantha rhei!

A functional path a single person or a smaller group can take to assure we are not de-vauled too much (swimming against the tide), is to excel in what we do. Motivate others and grow ourselves, become prized. Grieved resentments towards the more street-smart and adaptable colleagues, even if rightfully seen as competitors at some stage, do not achieve that goal and I've tested that on myself.

If large scale politics is to be played, it needs to be nothing else but the Social and Health insurance avoding schemes (Irish LTDs), under siege with all what we have. To assure even application of agreed laws, level playing fields and more breathing room for the sincere employers who aspire to evolve beyond leeching on their workforce and young people's dreams.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 16th Feb 2019 at 05:48. Reason: Grammar, spelling, grammar
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 23:15
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
If we can bridge this back somehow, in the spirit of helping each other.

1) I spent 1 summer with Aegean at a small island base, and it was the highlight of my career (not that I understood it by then). Supportive, respectful and good mentors. Hell of knowledgeable aviators with varied backgrounds and very proffesional standards. We're speaking Lufthansa with a hug, seriously.

2) We worked a lot and were offered to do even more (9 months/y) for those who could and dared. As much as thoroughly enjoyable the duties were, my home life (I tried to commute as much as possible) was reduced to 4 nights at the house each month, i.e. non-existent. Few people managed to have their significant other(s) with them down in Mediterrean, and would return for the next season repeteadly.

3) It is 6 years ago, the money was good, agency excellent (pre-CAE days). Only for the summer contractors though, the local pilots had their salaries much less cushy with an enormous tax levy and no other in-country options with an AB rating. The talks of the emerging ATO then were not received with much joy by the group, fearing and understananding the change of supply-demand landscape it would bring.

4) I have no understanding what the developments were after my visit.

Though I did not follow too closely for the last 3 years, the 140 k GBP "cadetships" of the last decade are a dishonorable extortion and P2F. On the basis of cash-flow balance up to the 500 hrs stage, compared even against the ruthless commercial TR+line training packages. Speaking of which - I flown both alongside and with people who did that. The only rich guy funded by his parents' money is now a longhaul FO with a unionized major in his home country, having made it through 3 other airlines on his way up and home. The brightest and most sponge-like for knowledge kid I met so far. Be assured, 100 hrs in Atlas Jet DOES NOT give you ANYTHING useful to climb that ladder, it is all lonely hard work and pulling own bootstraps. Out of the dozen or so other people who financed themselves, many fed the family with seriously werid jobs. Yet both the talented and marginal, all proven resilience and commitment to the proffesion beyond what I ever needed to show with my 3 rating all paid by the airlines.

Surely, single pilot ME/IR work north of the 50 parallel may well be the most demanding commerical assignment there is. With no radar, no de-ice, boxes for a company on a windy night and a loadsheet inside the limits only because the owner says so, there is absolutely no breast feeding involved. Moving out for greener pastures may require an investment in EU, such is the era. The evolution of technology and operational wisdom in the industry put T&C over time onto a downsloping plane. It was the reality 20 years before, today's the same, and it will be so 20 from now. Systems like the EGPWS, state of the art fuel level sensing, predictive windshear, moving map FMS, satellite weather are part of the geometry, as well as cross-border employment, international licencing, English language commonality, online courseware and the general peaceful times we are enjoying at the beginning of the 21st century.

For an A320 rating, the real cost is 12000 EUR. My ME/IR cost more than that even without inflation adjustment when I needed to obtain one (2001-ish). About five years prior, the older generation of pilots had been completely flabbergasted that the youngsters were required to shell the cash at all. Their reasonable and justifed view was something mandated by the commerial job should squarely have been the employer's responsibility. Pantha rhei!

A functional path a single person or a smaller group can take to assure we are not de-vauled too much (swimming against the tide), is to excel in what we do. Motivate others and grow ourselves, become prized. Grieved resentments towards the more street-smart and adaptable colleagues, even if rightfully seen as competitors at some stage, do not achieve that goal and I've tested that on myself.

If large scale politics is to be played, it needs to be nothing else but the Social and Health insurance avoding schemes (Irish LTDs), under siege with all what we have. To assure even application of agreed laws, level playing fields and more breathing room for the sincere employers who aspire to evolve beyond leeching on their workforce and young people's dreams.
THANK YOU for shedding some actual light on the topic FlightDetent.
Yes, it is indeed a time where we all should stick together and wait for the airlines to wake up to a future, where self-sponsored TR's are a thing of the past. Sadly, there will always be a more desparat or vulnerable individual in the world that thinks skipping to the front of the line by buying a rating directly from an ATO.

If only we were able to stand up for each other, as professionals. Maybe in the next life.
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Old 16th Feb 2019, 05:47
  #16 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Posts: 2,159
You may have mis-read my message completely, sir. If the fault is on my side, quite likely, I would be happy to re-phrase on some other, more appropriate, thread.

Nevertheless, based on my outdated experience: if one’s path takes you to Aegean - be ready to learn. The possibilities for personal growth there are enormous. Likewise, be ready to have a time of your life.
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