Christmas off bid guarantee
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3
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From: Canada
Christmas off bid guarantee
Hello everyone,
Wondering if any airlines have a program where a pilot is guaranteed to get christmas off ie a pilot is guaranteed every third Christmas off regardless of whether they bid for it or with a vacation block?
Thanks in advance for any answers
Wondering if any airlines have a program where a pilot is guaranteed to get christmas off ie a pilot is guaranteed every third Christmas off regardless of whether they bid for it or with a vacation block?
Thanks in advance for any answers
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 919
Likes: 6
From: uk
With us, you get a chance to book xmas/nyear 1 in 3 years, if successful (by no means guaranteed) you cannot bid for xmas leave for the next 2 years. Bizarrely, if you are rostered off over xmas by good fortune, you are also blocked for 2 years! That said, I have worked twice (voluntarily) over xmas plus one sby, in 19 years. So not all bad really.
In my previous, much smaller, airline, you had three lists of pilots who alternately had the most-to-least priority for leave requests. Annoyingly, even though there were no flights on xmas day, they would still roster you sby!
This is actually a worthwhile question for anyone considering joining a particular airline, since it certainly can cause a lot of heartache when you have a young family.
In my previous, much smaller, airline, you had three lists of pilots who alternately had the most-to-least priority for leave requests. Annoyingly, even though there were no flights on xmas day, they would still roster you sby!
This is actually a worthwhile question for anyone considering joining a particular airline, since it certainly can cause a lot of heartache when you have a young family.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 346
Likes: 1
From: Mordor
This was one of the (few) good things in Asia. The Chinese would not care at all about Christmas and the New Year, so all the Western guys were pretty much guaranteed to be off for X-mas.
OTOH, all the Chinese guys wanted to be off for the Chinese New Year and the westerners were all working during this period.
It was one of the very rare glimpses of common sense in the region
OTOH, all the Chinese guys wanted to be off for the Chinese New Year and the westerners were all working during this period.
It was one of the very rare glimpses of common sense in the region
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,731
Likes: 53
From: World
Where I work there is a pretty complex bidding process for HP days, where every day is allocated a number of points directly proportional to how popular a date is.
The more points you have the less chances you have to get what you want the following year.
Not a seniority based at all, and it prevents the same people from getting the top summer periods and christmas every year.
Very fair in my opinion.
No chance to request days off on a fixed pattern.
The more points you have the less chances you have to get what you want the following year.
Not a seniority based at all, and it prevents the same people from getting the top summer periods and christmas every year.
Very fair in my opinion.
No chance to request days off on a fixed pattern.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 751
Likes: 72
From: Netherlands
Ok this is how it works at my outfit:
Definition christmas: 24th december 1800LT (homebase) until 26th december 1600LT
Definition new years: 31th december 1800LT until 1 jan 1600 LT
If you have ANY duty during that period, you are defined as “working” during christmas and/or new years eve.
If so, that means that the next year is guaranteed free of duty at home.
This has never caused any problem at all, many flights are cancelled anyway during those days. This has been in effect for decades at my company. Works great.
Only downturn: if you were working last year, don’t expect to be able to request anything during the holiday time slot.
Definition christmas: 24th december 1800LT (homebase) until 26th december 1600LT
Definition new years: 31th december 1800LT until 1 jan 1600 LT
If you have ANY duty during that period, you are defined as “working” during christmas and/or new years eve.
If so, that means that the next year is guaranteed free of duty at home.
This has never caused any problem at all, many flights are cancelled anyway during those days. This has been in effect for decades at my company. Works great.
Only downturn: if you were working last year, don’t expect to be able to request anything during the holiday time slot.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 5
From: Chabanais, France
This is actually a worthwhile question for anyone considering joining a particular airline, since it certainly can cause a lot of heartache when you have a young family.
My last employment I would ask for a 'request trip' of about ten days that got back to base on the 23rd, rostered days off would cover Christmas, back into the fray for New Year. New York via Europe in mid winter was never a popular trip anyway.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Rough summation of the current rules at our lot:
Christmas duty defined as anything that impinges on Christmas day (midnight to midnight UK local time) itself, period, nothing either side..i.e. Christmas Eve and Boxing day are normal working days, as indeed are New Year's Eve and New Year's Day.....and we are not an LCC.
Any duty which involves you being away from base on Christmas Day attracts a number of Christmas points, which you bank over the years...if you have Christmas off in a particular year your banked points decay....Christmas points are in a separate "account" to the other points we get that are associated with leave/time off on other days of the year.
In rough terms the more Christmas points you have in the bank the less likely you are to be assigned a Christmas Duty...but there are no guarantees...
By choice I have worked the vast majority of the last 25 plus Christmases (Long Haul)...we so far at least have had a good staff travel agreement for getting family away on trips over Christmas ( which tends to mean there is no great shortage of volunteers for the Christmas work, on Long haul at least) and TBH being "out" avoids the which in-laws go where this year argument.
....( like many non aviators I don't think either sets of in-laws actually ever believed or understood why anyone would be working over Christmas, volunteers or not, but's that probably a subject for another thread)
When the kids were very young and travelling with them wasn't an option we simply did as parabellum described and re-rostered Christmas for another day in the period.
Christmas duty defined as anything that impinges on Christmas day (midnight to midnight UK local time) itself, period, nothing either side..i.e. Christmas Eve and Boxing day are normal working days, as indeed are New Year's Eve and New Year's Day.....and we are not an LCC.
Any duty which involves you being away from base on Christmas Day attracts a number of Christmas points, which you bank over the years...if you have Christmas off in a particular year your banked points decay....Christmas points are in a separate "account" to the other points we get that are associated with leave/time off on other days of the year.
In rough terms the more Christmas points you have in the bank the less likely you are to be assigned a Christmas Duty...but there are no guarantees...
By choice I have worked the vast majority of the last 25 plus Christmases (Long Haul)...we so far at least have had a good staff travel agreement for getting family away on trips over Christmas ( which tends to mean there is no great shortage of volunteers for the Christmas work, on Long haul at least) and TBH being "out" avoids the which in-laws go where this year argument.
....( like many non aviators I don't think either sets of in-laws actually ever believed or understood why anyone would be working over Christmas, volunteers or not, but's that probably a subject for another thread)When the kids were very young and travelling with them wasn't an option we simply did as parabellum described and re-rostered Christmas for another day in the period.
Last edited by wiggy; 14th November 2017 at 08:25.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 919
Likes: 6
From: uk
There is no easy answer, and the old saying 'if you can't take a joke, don't join the club' applies. That said, I have strongly advised my own children to think carefully before taking up any career that involves shift work.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Airlines are masters at deception, after all whole departments of HR practitioners (or is that sorcerers?) spend their working hours devising ways to mislead; sadly a lot of that energy is directed at their own employees.
Whilst the customer is easily duped into a 'bait fare'. You know the sort, 1 EURO airfare to {insert airport with similar name} ( but which airport?)..You want a seat belt, five EURO...
Well they excelled into duping pilots too!
There were Christmas bids, preferential seniority based bidding..They weren't lying....Only problem was there were 5 awards for 1000 pilots!
Just like the 1 EURO fare, to the wrong airport, without bags and oh there was only a solitary seat available at that price!
Whilst the customer is easily duped into a 'bait fare'. You know the sort, 1 EURO airfare to {insert airport with similar name} ( but which airport?)..You want a seat belt, five EURO...
Well they excelled into duping pilots too!
There were Christmas bids, preferential seniority based bidding..They weren't lying....Only problem was there were 5 awards for 1000 pilots!
Just like the 1 EURO fare, to the wrong airport, without bags and oh there was only a solitary seat available at that price!
