Open Skies Roster
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 35
From: I wouldn't know.
Well, 4 trips a month sounds about right for a longhaul operation, however, that would be 8 flights. If one consoders training, vacation and off days it would come down on average to about 3 rotations per month or roughly 2 to 4. However, still double that number in flights.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
Looking at PPJN which has just been updated, 50,000 euro for FO with no flight pay or sector pay, double taxation in France and home country and no pension. Could be attractive if you've not done long haul but then you'll only see one destination!
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Like Airclues I'm a bit confused about the claim of secondments.
I've lost track of the details of the Open Skies situation and I am happy to stand corrected but I do know for certain that when it was being set up management were very very resistant to BALPAs suggestion that some BA mainline pilots could be involved in/seconded into the operation as was being done with GSS (as I recall it one of the words used by management was "contaminated", which didn't help industrial relations at all).
At least one ex BA senior captain certainly went to Open Skies in a management role when it started but I've not noticed an option for OS in the annual bid or any sign of anyone being posted there in the annual bid results....but TBH I don't look hard at either these days.
I could have missed something - are there actually any pilots on the BA mainline seniority list seconded to Open Skies at the moment?
I've lost track of the details of the Open Skies situation and I am happy to stand corrected but I do know for certain that when it was being set up management were very very resistant to BALPAs suggestion that some BA mainline pilots could be involved in/seconded into the operation as was being done with GSS (as I recall it one of the words used by management was "contaminated", which didn't help industrial relations at all).
At least one ex BA senior captain certainly went to Open Skies in a management role when it started but I've not noticed an option for OS in the annual bid or any sign of anyone being posted there in the annual bid results....but TBH I don't look hard at either these days.
I could have missed something - are there actually any pilots on the BA mainline seniority list seconded to Open Skies at the moment?
Last edited by wiggy; 11th December 2016 at 18:26.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 623
Likes: 1
From: UK
In 2008, BALPA threatened strike action to force BA to crew Open Skies with BA pilots. BA threatened BALPA with legal action under EU law and BALPA had to concede defeat. Consequently, as wiggy says, secondments to Open Skies have never been offered in the annual PRIAM bid.
BBC NEWS | UK | BA pilots to vote on strike call
BBC NEWS | UK | BA pilots to vote on strike call
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Strange, because I know two (BA mainline) Captains who are seconded there.
As Airclues has mentioned back in the day there was an extremely acrimonious dispute between the company and BALPA over the manning of Open Skies. BALPA wanted at least some access to pilot seats, along the lines of the secondment agreement with GSS, management were adamant that they didn't want Openskies contaminated ( that's the word they used) by BA pilots. BALPA lost the dispute (long story, still not fully explained) , and BA certainly weren't in a mood for changing their mind and handing out any concessions to the union.
As I mentioned earlier there was at least one retired BA captain there in the early days, some who have left BA may have migrated there since. Maybe some of our current managers/trainers are quietly being seconded there, TBH I don't know, but I have never heard mention of Openskies secondments being offered to mainline crew as part of the annual bid.
zzz: I stand corrected, I've checked with somone in the know and despite all my waffle above it seems it certainly was an option for secondment a handful of years back (e.g. it was being discussed elsehwere in 2010). Whether the two you refer to are legacies from that era or are more recent secondees I do not know.
Last edited by wiggy; 12th December 2016 at 10:54.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 724
Likes: 24
From: UK
Hi Wiggy
The Priam code was CCOS. Definitely seen it as a bid option during my time in BA (joined 2011). Don't know if the option was in this years Priam run. There is a current secondee on the company "forum" asking about seniority for various postings as he is bidding back to mainline next year.
The Priam code was CCOS. Definitely seen it as a bid option during my time in BA (joined 2011). Don't know if the option was in this years Priam run. There is a current secondee on the company "forum" asking about seniority for various postings as he is bidding back to mainline next year.
