Thomas Cook
Plumbum Pendular
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
From: Avionics Bay
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
From: I wish I knew
Lufthansa has been shopping for partner airlines to expand the Eurowings brand for some months. The kick start into long haul with Sun Express is not going as fast as they want and they need established long haul players to get any sort of traction. Sun Express Deutschland is rumoured to be concentrating on the traditional 737 based model as it will need crews to keep the airframes coming from Turkey utilised over the summer months and possibly longer as the Turkish markets are hit badly by the terrorist events of recent times. The whole Lufthansa/ Condor/ Thomas Cook thing seems to be coming full circle. Effects on crews? probably none, other than those hoping to swap from SH to LH than may be sidelined if trained crews are up and running already. Bases? its a guess!
LUFTHANSA Continues To Shop For An Airline.....Next Up, Condor - Lufthansa Flyer
LUFTHANSA Continues To Shop For An Airline.....Next Up, Condor - Lufthansa Flyer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 578
Likes: 7
From: uk
As a veteran of several airline mergers and takeovers I can assure you that the aircrew will be the very last to know anything about it and are unlikely to be consulted beforehand.
Anything that becomes "known", "understood" or "believed" of the entire business (inc what is reported in the meeja) before and during the takeover process will be bunkum, guesswork or rumour unless it is promulgated officially by the purchaser and rest assured there won't be much of that. Takeovers happen in conditions of hermetic secrecy.
As pilots you will be the last to know anything. Adopt mushroom mode and wait it out, there's nowt else you can do. Even if BALPA are involved you'll learn nothing until the bombshell memo comes out that explains everything as a fait accompli, and then its like it or lump it.
Sorry.
Still, Thos Cook to Lufti might for once be a positive change. I hope so.
ps. Part of the fun is inventing feasible sounding but controversial, even shocking scenarios (eg new company hub in Stuttgart or Prestwick for tax reasons, or all aircrew required to speak fluent German due to Lufti rules - courses will be provided, no wages until passed) and dropping them into a conversation with a known gossipmonger or just in a general crewroom conversation and waiting to see how long it takes them to gain traction and how much they've grown in the telling. A really skilful operator can have two or three of these running concurrently and much subversive fun can be had to liven up a grim period.
Best of luck guys!
Anything that becomes "known", "understood" or "believed" of the entire business (inc what is reported in the meeja) before and during the takeover process will be bunkum, guesswork or rumour unless it is promulgated officially by the purchaser and rest assured there won't be much of that. Takeovers happen in conditions of hermetic secrecy.
As pilots you will be the last to know anything. Adopt mushroom mode and wait it out, there's nowt else you can do. Even if BALPA are involved you'll learn nothing until the bombshell memo comes out that explains everything as a fait accompli, and then its like it or lump it.
Sorry.
Still, Thos Cook to Lufti might for once be a positive change. I hope so.
ps. Part of the fun is inventing feasible sounding but controversial, even shocking scenarios (eg new company hub in Stuttgart or Prestwick for tax reasons, or all aircrew required to speak fluent German due to Lufti rules - courses will be provided, no wages until passed) and dropping them into a conversation with a known gossipmonger or just in a general crewroom conversation and waiting to see how long it takes them to gain traction and how much they've grown in the telling. A really skilful operator can have two or three of these running concurrently and much subversive fun can be had to liven up a grim period.
Best of luck guys!
Last edited by Wageslave; 27th April 2016 at 16:00.
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 615
Likes: 8
From: Middle England
Thomas Cook sold most of the fleet in a sale and leaseback arrangement a few years ago. We were strapped for cash. Lufthansa may well be interested in gaining control of Condor as it is a different model to the rest of the group airlines. Lots of scheduled slots in Germany and lots of previous history.
I cannot see them wanting any other part of the business. Certainly not a tour operator with a load of shops on the UK high street.
As for the Daily Mail article, total rubbish. Nothing new there though...
I cannot see them wanting any other part of the business. Certainly not a tour operator with a load of shops on the UK high street.
As for the Daily Mail article, total rubbish. Nothing new there though...
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Frankfurt
wageslave , your scenarios are hoax.
one example: Lufthansa Italia like 5 yrs ago had Italian copilots. when it went out of business they were given the chance to move to fra/muc into real Lufthansa contract (compared to BA about 30% higher salary, short haul about 15 days off a month, long haul 17). one requirement at that point was german language proficinecy. but not before that with ops in Italy. many took the chance , learned for 6 months , and were integrated in the main seniority list.
one example: Lufthansa Italia like 5 yrs ago had Italian copilots. when it went out of business they were given the chance to move to fra/muc into real Lufthansa contract (compared to BA about 30% higher salary, short haul about 15 days off a month, long haul 17). one requirement at that point was german language proficinecy. but not before that with ops in Italy. many took the chance , learned for 6 months , and were integrated in the main seniority list.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 575
Likes: 7
Thos Cook Lufthansa Possible Line Up
Wageslave, Great post & of course you are absolutely right in all you say. Definitely, in many industries & certainly in the Airline world, the Crews & other loyal staff, are the very last to hear just what is going on, or likely to happen.
As an aside, I wonder if Lufthansa are also looking at the new slim line Monarch operation?
Regards.
As an aside, I wonder if Lufthansa are also looking at the new slim line Monarch operation?
Regards.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: At the whim of crewing
Or indeed the following, which has also been referenced in the Daily Mail, but I'm thinking about it a little further:
Lufthansa take the Condor aircraft.
Monarch take the TCX aircraft.
Despite the initial scepticism, and newspaper reporting about Monarch actually being up for sale, which seems to have been wrong, this would be an ideal opportunity for Monarch to expand and consolidate with a competitor.
Lufthansa take the Condor aircraft.
Monarch take the TCX aircraft.
Despite the initial scepticism, and newspaper reporting about Monarch actually being up for sale, which seems to have been wrong, this would be an ideal opportunity for Monarch to expand and consolidate with a competitor.
)
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Apologies for continuing the thread creep but why would Easyjet want to pay any money whatsoever for Monarch?
Monarch don't own any of their aircraft and Easyjet already have access to the majority of airports that Monarch operate out of.
As per when BMI Baby went under other airlines just cherry picked what they wanted/needed to expand their own networks.
Easyjet could just sit and wait and get what they want without the hassle of taking on another airline and all of its staff.
Sound harsh but I think this is more likely the scenario.
Monarch don't own any of their aircraft and Easyjet already have access to the majority of airports that Monarch operate out of.
As per when BMI Baby went under other airlines just cherry picked what they wanted/needed to expand their own networks.
Easyjet could just sit and wait and get what they want without the hassle of taking on another airline and all of its staff.
Sound harsh but I think this is more likely the scenario.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: London
This thread is about Thomas Cook! Why has Monarch crept into it? What relevance has poor BMI Baby's demise got to do with it? Honestly any excuse to endlessly pontificate what ifs and maybes..... 
Monarch are doing just fine thank you - unless you work there you really have no idea!
Monarch are doing just fine thank you - unless you work there you really have no idea!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: UK
Or perhaps the first reports are still correct - you could view this as greybull talking themselves up thus presenting Monarch as a better proposition to potential suitors
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,766
Likes: 4
From: Here and there
