Aerologic
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Aerologic
Hi
I have a screening for aerologic in november and i was wondering if someone could give any info about the roster and salary & benefits.
i have no type rating for the 777 at the moment flying airbus.
Thanks!!
I have a screening for aerologic in november and i was wondering if someone could give any info about the roster and salary & benefits.
i have no type rating for the 777 at the moment flying airbus.
Thanks!!
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Hi,
here some information from first hand:
-Must be fluent in german or you have to learn it
-atmosphere in the flight deck is realy good, a great bunch of people, except of the famous 1%
-Training department encourages you to fly manually as much as you can or want (AP and A/T Off). There is no punishment for an Go-Around. Training in the simulator means that you don't have to be scarred!
- 15 days guaranteed off every month, so it's like Part time
- usually 3 rotations per month, flying hours are between 40-70 hrs, in the summertime a bit more, so 90 hrs is realy an exception
- between two rotations you'll have 4 to 7 days off
- homebase is Leipzig, but 90% of all Pilots are commuting
-40 days vacation per year
- in case of longterm sickness, Company pays Basic salary for six months, standard in Germany is six weeks
-Part Time is possible, you can request up to six months per year, if granted
-salary is lower comparing to other longhaul Operators, but have in mind that you only work 15 days per month, so your Lifestyle is good
-we have layovers in LAX (six days),ORD,JFK,CVG,PVG,HKG,SIN,BKK,MAA,DXB,BAH,BOM,BLR
-hotels are realy good, 5 star, located in the City centre
So, good luck for your screening.
here some information from first hand:
-Must be fluent in german or you have to learn it
-atmosphere in the flight deck is realy good, a great bunch of people, except of the famous 1%
-Training department encourages you to fly manually as much as you can or want (AP and A/T Off). There is no punishment for an Go-Around. Training in the simulator means that you don't have to be scarred!
- 15 days guaranteed off every month, so it's like Part time
- usually 3 rotations per month, flying hours are between 40-70 hrs, in the summertime a bit more, so 90 hrs is realy an exception
- between two rotations you'll have 4 to 7 days off
- homebase is Leipzig, but 90% of all Pilots are commuting
-40 days vacation per year
- in case of longterm sickness, Company pays Basic salary for six months, standard in Germany is six weeks
-Part Time is possible, you can request up to six months per year, if granted
-salary is lower comparing to other longhaul Operators, but have in mind that you only work 15 days per month, so your Lifestyle is good
-we have layovers in LAX (six days),ORD,JFK,CVG,PVG,HKG,SIN,BKK,MAA,DXB,BAH,BOM,BLR
-hotels are realy good, 5 star, located in the City centre
So, good luck for your screening.
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Any idea on Aerologic growth plans? Can they add more aircraft considering their relationship with LH and LH Cargo? Will they add more airframes? Obviously this will impact upgrade time and salaries.
Join Date: Sep 2015
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@Iver
I cannot predict if we get any further airframes, there are always rumours about new equipment for the Last two or three years, i think it all depends what will happen next year with LH Cargo, as you know, they have another five T7 on order, but no one knows where they go. DHL, who owns 50% of AL, is not realy interested in buying new aircrafts, thats my impression. For expansion, we need definately additional airplanes and this will of course impact upgradings and recruitment. We have plenty of Senior First Officers waiting for an upgrading, but I think not enough for 5 new aircrafts, but once again, we might operate the next years with the same number of aircrafts, aviation is like lottery!
By the way, starting salary for a Second Officer is 40k Euros, maximum for SFO is 95k Euros, a Captain is starting with 108k Euros, 170k is the limit, it all depends of your previous experience!
I know that the money is less comparing to EK,EY,QR or TK, but i prefered to stay in good old Europe and not going to the sandpit, it's so simple.
I cannot predict if we get any further airframes, there are always rumours about new equipment for the Last two or three years, i think it all depends what will happen next year with LH Cargo, as you know, they have another five T7 on order, but no one knows where they go. DHL, who owns 50% of AL, is not realy interested in buying new aircrafts, thats my impression. For expansion, we need definately additional airplanes and this will of course impact upgradings and recruitment. We have plenty of Senior First Officers waiting for an upgrading, but I think not enough for 5 new aircrafts, but once again, we might operate the next years with the same number of aircrafts, aviation is like lottery!
By the way, starting salary for a Second Officer is 40k Euros, maximum for SFO is 95k Euros, a Captain is starting with 108k Euros, 170k is the limit, it all depends of your previous experience!
I know that the money is less comparing to EK,EY,QR or TK, but i prefered to stay in good old Europe and not going to the sandpit, it's so simple.
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Less than EK, EY, TK etc. is a bit of a joke, 45.000€ gross for a FO is less then most LoCos like WIZZ or Germania are paying and 15 days off is nothing like part time.
Unless you are very optimistic, it seems quite unlikely that new a/c are coming.
But lets give it a try and you see what you are getting, it all depends on your alternatives.
Unless you are very optimistic, it seems quite unlikely that new a/c are coming.
But lets give it a try and you see what you are getting, it all depends on your alternatives.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Very true. Aerologic is indeed not a bad company to work for but as you say, it really depends on where you are coming from and what your alternatives are.
Some bits of info from me with rose-tinted specs off:
Language: Except for a handful of individuals who got in early with the right amount of experience needed at that time, fluency in german is a hard requirement. At least at a normal conversational level.
Company Culture: Generally good, however latest developements concerning establishing a works council and such have lead to some 'questionable' behaviour from management and coupled with lets say 'questionable' decisions (not getting into more details in public) in the past years, crew morale, especially on the FO side, is rather low. Still on the flight deck expect to have a good time with in general a great bunch of people.
Rosters and Duty: Yes 15 working days is awesome but as EAM said, far from being part time. I was with the company in the hard times, with 8-9 days off and 90-100 hours a month and from my opinion with the kind of flying we do, what we have right now is necessary to sustain a healthy life.
In general, 3-4 Rotations a month is a good guess, hours depends. East Rotations have generally more hours than West Rotations, but 70 in a normal month is a good guess. Then also expect some standby duties in Lej (yes you have to be there) and the ocassional night trip to BRU or EMA and back. Rosters once published are pretty stable in general.
Vacation: 40 days, but OFF days are reduced with a 2:1 ratio.
Staff Travel: Lots of ID Agreements for a cargo airline, commuting also possible on DHL.
Salary: As stated by Bill Boeing and 20% of that salary is tax free. 2€/h (48€ a day) per diem. Keep in mind that during vacation or sickness, your tax free allowance is reduced by the number of days and you will earn less. Also don't count on the per diems as part of your salary, you will(!) spend them downroute in case you don't want to go to McD every time.
Expansion and future prospects:
Expansion might or might not happen in the future, more likely from LH side than DHLs but don't count on it. Even then, there will most probably be no quick upgrades anymore and i would expect 5-7 years+ minimum. No expansion will let you stay in the right seat forever. Why? Lots of captains are between early 30s and mid 40s and generally we have more captains than we most probably need, so i would not expect any significant amount of upgrades with even 2 additional aircraft right now. In addition, within the 1-1.5 years, there will be 20+ SFOs ready for upgrade and in 5-7 years, almost every F/O in the company right now will have the experience required to upgrade and they will all be in front of you.
Also keep in mind that your salary progresses quite slow, if you come into the company with some experience and an entry level salary of 55.000€, it will take you 16 years to reach First Officer Maximum. And then, you will still join the Captain salary scale almost at the bottom.
Bottom Line is, it's not a bad job or a bad company and within germany with our ****ty market you will have a hard time finding a better job offer right now but come here with your eyes open and know what to expect. Take everything what is promised to you with a grain of salt and base you decision whether to join or not on the facts at hand.
Best of luck for your upcoming interview in Nov
Some bits of info from me with rose-tinted specs off:
Language: Except for a handful of individuals who got in early with the right amount of experience needed at that time, fluency in german is a hard requirement. At least at a normal conversational level.
Company Culture: Generally good, however latest developements concerning establishing a works council and such have lead to some 'questionable' behaviour from management and coupled with lets say 'questionable' decisions (not getting into more details in public) in the past years, crew morale, especially on the FO side, is rather low. Still on the flight deck expect to have a good time with in general a great bunch of people.
Rosters and Duty: Yes 15 working days is awesome but as EAM said, far from being part time. I was with the company in the hard times, with 8-9 days off and 90-100 hours a month and from my opinion with the kind of flying we do, what we have right now is necessary to sustain a healthy life.
In general, 3-4 Rotations a month is a good guess, hours depends. East Rotations have generally more hours than West Rotations, but 70 in a normal month is a good guess. Then also expect some standby duties in Lej (yes you have to be there) and the ocassional night trip to BRU or EMA and back. Rosters once published are pretty stable in general.
Vacation: 40 days, but OFF days are reduced with a 2:1 ratio.
Staff Travel: Lots of ID Agreements for a cargo airline, commuting also possible on DHL.
Salary: As stated by Bill Boeing and 20% of that salary is tax free. 2€/h (48€ a day) per diem. Keep in mind that during vacation or sickness, your tax free allowance is reduced by the number of days and you will earn less. Also don't count on the per diems as part of your salary, you will(!) spend them downroute in case you don't want to go to McD every time.
Expansion and future prospects:
Expansion might or might not happen in the future, more likely from LH side than DHLs but don't count on it. Even then, there will most probably be no quick upgrades anymore and i would expect 5-7 years+ minimum. No expansion will let you stay in the right seat forever. Why? Lots of captains are between early 30s and mid 40s and generally we have more captains than we most probably need, so i would not expect any significant amount of upgrades with even 2 additional aircraft right now. In addition, within the 1-1.5 years, there will be 20+ SFOs ready for upgrade and in 5-7 years, almost every F/O in the company right now will have the experience required to upgrade and they will all be in front of you.
Also keep in mind that your salary progresses quite slow, if you come into the company with some experience and an entry level salary of 55.000€, it will take you 16 years to reach First Officer Maximum. And then, you will still join the Captain salary scale almost at the bottom.
Bottom Line is, it's not a bad job or a bad company and within germany with our ****ty market you will have a hard time finding a better job offer right now but come here with your eyes open and know what to expect. Take everything what is promised to you with a grain of salt and base you decision whether to join or not on the facts at hand.
Best of luck for your upcoming interview in Nov
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Thanks for all the answers!
For me everything sounds ok except the salary.
It is really low!!
I have 3400 hours mix of turboprop and airbus time,for the company i work i make neto flying 70 hours 3500 euros approx 90 hours almost 4000 and i can get an upgrade pretty soon.
For me it was interesting to fly long haul, but although the atmosphere is ok at aerologic the payment is too low for me.
For me everything sounds ok except the salary.
It is really low!!
I have 3400 hours mix of turboprop and airbus time,for the company i work i make neto flying 70 hours 3500 euros approx 90 hours almost 4000 and i can get an upgrade pretty soon.
For me it was interesting to fly long haul, but although the atmosphere is ok at aerologic the payment is too low for me.
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Widebody jobs in Europe are few and far between. Always amazes me that while you're young you don't see that the older you get the more time off you need to recover. Starting pay isn't great but if you factor in the additional 5-6 days a month you get off over a low cost carrier it sounds like a good gig.
Would you rather do 20 short sectors a month for your 70 hrs or 6 long haul?
Would you rather do 20 short sectors a month for your 70 hrs or 6 long haul?
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@Anotherday on long haul you need the 3-4 days that you get more to recover from the jet leg and the 18h duty.
And to make it straight, pay is not great.....its ****. I know there are a few guys who joined Aerologic because they can say "I am flying a 777".
If you just go there because auf the a/c, then you should think again.
And to make it straight, pay is not great.....its ****. I know there are a few guys who joined Aerologic because they can say "I am flying a 777".
If you just go there because auf the a/c, then you should think again.
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Probably was considered a good stepping stone by many for an eventual jump to the ME carriers - but now those ME carriers look increasingly awful in terms of QOL and flying fatigue. Now Ryan and Easy look tame when compared to EK in terms of flying fatigue.
Wish there were more options like the Euro legacies where you can fly both SH and LH in your career if you so choose............
Wish there were more options like the Euro legacies where you can fly both SH and LH in your career if you so choose............
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on long haul you need the 3-4 days that you get more to recover from the jet leg and the 18h duty.
And to make it straight, pay is not great.....its ****. I know there are a few guys who joined Aerologic because they can say "I am flying a 777".
If you just go there because auf the a/c, then you should think again.
And to make it straight, pay is not great.....its ****. I know there are a few guys who joined Aerologic because they can say "I am flying a 777".
If you just go there because auf the a/c, then you should think again.
I know of an ex-colleague who went there about 5-6 years ago with quite a few thousand hours of experience and back then he made about €2500 after taxes + a few hundred Euros in per diem. I also looked at some of his duty plans and they are killing IMO. If I remember correctly three man crew HKG-ALA-LEJ or LEJ-ORD-LAX and stuff like that.
The area around Leipzig is relatively cheap but also totally boring, and if you think about moving to Berlin (about 1,5 - 2 hours to the airport by car depending on traffic and where you live in Berlin) with AL's pay you can barely afford to live in a reasonably nice area + pay for a car + pay for a crash pad in the LEJ area.
Perhaps the pay and schedules have improved by now, but all in all I was not terribly impressed, especially for Western Europe and flying brand new 777's.
Probably was considered a good stepping stone by many for an eventual jump to the ME carriers - but now those ME carriers look increasingly awful in terms of QOL and flying fatigue. Now Ryan and Easy look tame when compared to EK in terms of flying fatigue.