China Southern Airlines
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Hong Kong
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China Southern Airlines
Think twice about joining China Southern, whether you are type rated or not. Joining 777, 787 or A330 as direct-entry captain, a new contract is being issued which, although it includes an incremental pay increase over four years, also includes a clause stating that if you fail a simulator check, you are automatically demoted to F/O for approximately six months (depends on how much actual seat time you log as F/O after the demotion), and your pay is chopped all the way down to $6,000 (USD) per month during the entire period of demotion. If you are enjoying a reverse-roster arrangement, that goes away during the demotion as well. Sim checks can be very subjective and are administered by local Chinese examiners.
If word gets around the global pilot community, recruitment will dry up and China Southern will get the message.
If word gets around the global pilot community, recruitment will dry up and China Southern will get the message.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
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Add that to the 3 month endorsement which ends up 8 or more months on training pay, 40% less than full contract pay. The reverse scheduling ports that open for 3 weeks then close as a failure with foreign pilots commuting to China for every trip, thereby being away from home & families 30% more than claimed for no additional pay yet more cost to them. And then you know why so many of the foreigners that passed the sim/medical/atp exams never go there. They don't have much credibility in what I have witnessed.
Join Date: Apr 2013
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What strikes me is that a relatively small community is not able to stand for its right .There is may be a need for global union as the job is more and more globalized. Pilots can stop the world from turning imagine what at hundred of thousand of member union would be capable of on a global scale.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Forget about China Southern unless you're unemployed. Even then it takes 9-12 months to get a start. From then on its continuous frustration trying to deal with non SOP, flawed instruction technique, punishment culture, incompetent managers, 2PIC, unexplained failures, smoking in the cockpit, ......... On an on......anything else I've missed?
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Safety Bonus
Airlines in China often offer this every year, around US$ 6-8000.
However , what they dont tell guys is that there are dozens of reasons ( if not hundreds) that the company can give you for not paynig it, eg Not having your headset on throught the cruise or filling in every line of the flt plan/ fuel log. Its happened.
Point is, as is often the case in China, whats written isn't necessarily true, or close to the reality of day to day ops.
Airlines in China often offer this every year, around US$ 6-8000.
However , what they dont tell guys is that there are dozens of reasons ( if not hundreds) that the company can give you for not paynig it, eg Not having your headset on throught the cruise or filling in every line of the flt plan/ fuel log. Its happened.
Point is, as is often the case in China, whats written isn't necessarily true, or close to the reality of day to day ops.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Way up north
Age: 45
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Safety Bonus
Airlines in China often offer this every year, around US$ 6-8000.
However , what they dont tell guys is that there are dozens of reasons ( if not hundreds) that the company can give you for not paynig it, eg Not having your headset on throught the cruise or filling in every line of the flt plan/ fuel log. Its happened.
Point is, as is often the case in China, whats written isn't necessarily true, or close to the reality of day to day ops.
Airlines in China often offer this every year, around US$ 6-8000.
However , what they dont tell guys is that there are dozens of reasons ( if not hundreds) that the company can give you for not paynig it, eg Not having your headset on throught the cruise or filling in every line of the flt plan/ fuel log. Its happened.
Point is, as is often the case in China, whats written isn't necessarily true, or close to the reality of day to day ops.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Way up north
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I guess so. They seem to have a few job postings out there right now for the 787. I was hoping someone had some information on what things were like over the last decade or so.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mars
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The ME is gonna be the new gold mine 👍
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Way up north
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I think this is in the ballpark of what was being offered pre-pandemic. You get paid what you get paid in order to put up with the BS. I get that. I'm trying to get some specifics on the BS and what things actually look like there now.
As a Canadian, China is the only country I can work in and maintain Canadian Residency while at the same time not paying any income tax on earned income. Anything in the Middle East requires uprooting the whole family and leaving.
As a Canadian, China is the only country I can work in and maintain Canadian Residency while at the same time not paying any income tax on earned income. Anything in the Middle East requires uprooting the whole family and leaving.
Only half a speed-brake
3. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2, remuneration in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft operated in international traffic by an enterprise of a Contracting State, shall be taxable only in that Contracting State.
TL;DR
The ballpark is pre-pandemic -30% in nominal, never mind any inflation adjustments.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Way up north
Age: 45
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I can't say I've read all of that agreement either. Chinese airlines all pay the local Chinese income tax for you and provide proof of payment. This way you don't pay a top up tax back home. I'm not aware of any other country where this occurs. UAE, Qatar, etc definitely do not (not that you'd be likely to rotate from there anyway).
I'm sure the contract rates I can figure out. I personally wouldn't do it for 30% less than the pre-pandemic number despite the tax advantage.
Any info on what a typical month looks like? This is the harder thing to figure out.
I'm sure the contract rates I can figure out. I personally wouldn't do it for 30% less than the pre-pandemic number despite the tax advantage.
Any info on what a typical month looks like? This is the harder thing to figure out.
