Fly Till Ya Die
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Fly Till Ya Die
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I hope that EASA does the same - UK nationals currently of about 40 and lower won't get state pensions until they're 69, and with so many airlines giving appalling pensions, if any, then retirement becomes a worry for many.
As long as service at an airline beyond the current contracted retirement is voluntary, not mandatory, then this is a good thing - mandatory licence nullification at 65 is pure ageism and illegal in the EU, though it has yet to be challenged. If someone can pass the medicals and sim checks, then there is no safety issue, which is what the 65 mandate is based on. Time to give fit old folk the choice.
As long as service at an airline beyond the current contracted retirement is voluntary, not mandatory, then this is a good thing - mandatory licence nullification at 65 is pure ageism and illegal in the EU, though it has yet to be challenged. If someone can pass the medicals and sim checks, then there is no safety issue, which is what the 65 mandate is based on. Time to give fit old folk the choice.
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Actually, the license won't be nullified and you can of course work beyond 65 even in europe. Just not in commercial air transport.
But yes, there is a problem with the age 65 rule and state pension ages going upwards. Over here in germany the state pension age is 67, however if you become unemployed at 65 you will get your state pension, just with a 7,2% discount on the normal rate, despite having payed the maximum contribution for life.
But yes, there is a problem with the age 65 rule and state pension ages going upwards. Over here in germany the state pension age is 67, however if you become unemployed at 65 you will get your state pension, just with a 7,2% discount on the normal rate, despite having payed the maximum contribution for life.
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If you read the link, it's actually nothing to do with "giving choices" -to "fit old folk"or anyone else. It's purely about increasing the supply of pilots so that remuneration, including pensions, can be cut further.
As for the idea that this is somehow "fighting ageism", how is a limit of 67 any less ageist??
As for the idea that this is somehow "fighting ageism", how is a limit of 67 any less ageist??
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65 was set in the UK as retirement age in 1913 - when the average person would live another two years
Seems reasonable to move it up to reflect the changed life expectancy
Seems reasonable to move it up to reflect the changed life expectancy
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Several very valid reasons I can think of, not limited to ex-wives/airlines going bust & "losing" your pension contributions/bust pension funds/ Oh, and maybe, just maybe, because you still enjoy flying. 
Interesting nobody has mentioned the lack of a retirement limit for domestic operations in Australia. Whilst many of us will probably never see the day, I have a friend who still flies in his nineties (with a safety pilot). He had a twin IR into his eighties, when he was happily using his company Seneca to get around his business. He is now retired but still amazingly active.
Just another example, in an endless series (regarding anything Regulatory), of how sacrosanct principles get sacrificed as soon as someone with the appropriate authority gets convinced that there is an "Over-riding Business Case" to justify abandoning them.
Life is
, & to pretend otherwise is pointless !
Life is
, & to pretend otherwise is pointless !
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Those that think an increase in the working life of a pilot will result in an overall increase in the pension they eventually retire with, is being naive in the extreme.
Airline bosses will immediately readjust the company pension contributions downward to offset any potential increase for the employees.
In other words, we will all be working longer into older age, and we will be that little bit less capable of enjoying our eventual retirement (in terms of vitality).
Not to mention being a few years closer to the grave anyway.
Hamsters on the wheel springs to mind.
Airline bosses will immediately readjust the company pension contributions downward to offset any potential increase for the employees.
In other words, we will all be working longer into older age, and we will be that little bit less capable of enjoying our eventual retirement (in terms of vitality).
Not to mention being a few years closer to the grave anyway.
Hamsters on the wheel springs to mind.
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originally you started work at 14 or 15 and worked until 65 - say 50 years
now at worst you start work at 18 and pension at 67 less time and the work isn't as hard as it was way back
TBH I feel sorry for people who fixate on taking their pension - is the day job THAT bad???
now at worst you start work at 18 and pension at 67 less time and the work isn't as hard as it was way back
TBH I feel sorry for people who fixate on taking their pension - is the day job THAT bad???
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is the day job THAT bad
Life expectancy and health, let alone getting/maintaining a medical are different animals. These days you can be drugged to age 95 and still be sick between 45 and 95....
I´m turning 50 in 1,5 years - my eyesight was way better when I was 40. My doctor tells me, this is normal and the deteorating will continue, with plateaus and "sharp cliffs".... he also does "medicals" for bus drivers and he says EVERYONE knows that 99% of all bus drivers cannot meet the requirements at 62,62,64 ish. Yet they need to work til 67. As we will have to (and btw, why is there no cover for the 2 years gap between 65 and 67 that we already have ?).
And who will hire a 63 old busdriver or ex pilot ? Despite all the fanfares, the bosses just want young and cheap labourers.
Another case of the nice politicians just twisting and changing the rules without remorse. Just for them, the pensions never get cut. I wonder why....
And oh, btw, I started at 17. The same beancounter that makes my life miserable starts to study at20, 21 and gets out of University at 27-28. which makes me work 10 years longer than them. IS THIS FAIR ?
So if they want me to fly to 67, fine, but then change the medicals. Oh, and the cockpit door width, if I need a wheel chair to go to work, it needs to fit through there....
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Shot One, you misunderstand me. I believe that there should be no mandate on when we have to stop - if we can pass the medical and performance checks, we should be able to continue as long as we choose. The Japanese are not doing this out of decency to the pilots but out of commercial pressure. The motive is wrong, but the result is a step in the right direction.
Great that the Aussies can see the absurdity of a mandated limit that fails to account for different individual fitness and circumstances. Now just the rest of the ICAO members to follow suit...
Great that the Aussies can see the absurdity of a mandated limit that fails to account for different individual fitness and circumstances. Now just the rest of the ICAO members to follow suit...
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I hung up the headset at 64.9 yrs old and would have loved to go on for another coupla years, as I was apparently physically fit, mentally I could b**ls**t my way through onto the flightdeck and get airborne before the F/O realised what (s)he'd let themselves in for!
Alas the FTLs in a certain country at the end of the St Pancras Eurostar railway line appear to have been drafted on a fag packet during a very tired and emotional evening by the company boss and the relevant xAA.
As a result I found myself getting TIRED of the whole business, though I loved the flying and the team with whom I worked.
Others of my vintage have given up, NOT due to the strains of the job but the hassle of getting TO the aircraft through the company briefing room, security, crew transport and the inevitable delays because last season's beancounters have culled significant numbers of the support ground staff.
So it's not just a matter of passing the medical, our leaders and managers have succeeded in making it a much less attractive job than 42 years ago when I first frightened myself in a RAF Chippie.
Alas the FTLs in a certain country at the end of the St Pancras Eurostar railway line appear to have been drafted on a fag packet during a very tired and emotional evening by the company boss and the relevant xAA.
As a result I found myself getting TIRED of the whole business, though I loved the flying and the team with whom I worked.
Others of my vintage have given up, NOT due to the strains of the job but the hassle of getting TO the aircraft through the company briefing room, security, crew transport and the inevitable delays because last season's beancounters have culled significant numbers of the support ground staff.
So it's not just a matter of passing the medical, our leaders and managers have succeeded in making it a much less attractive job than 42 years ago when I first frightened myself in a RAF Chippie.
A number of over 70, Airline pilots (one turning 75 this year) still flying A320 on domestic operations in New Zealand as there is no age discrimination. International operations are limited to 65 due to ICAO standards in other countries.
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This is tremendous news. There are some grumpy old trainers and managers that I relish the oportunity to hear pontificating for another couple of years. There are those (not I) who feel they "need the money" - after a significant period in the industry before terms and conditions began their race to the bottom. Sounds like bad planning. Spare an unselfish thought for the less fortunate behind you without nice DB pensions who actually do need the money from a higher paying heavy jet job or senior position.
Still enjoy flying? Why yes I do. What that has to do with operating a modern FBW airliner in the paranoid security and EASA circus I'm not too sure.
Oh, and aren't the bunch now whining about "ageism" (get a life), the same lot whom through action or omission have "led" this profession down it's current path?
The good guys will be replaced by other good guys, there's no shortage on the line. The seem to cling on forever.
Au revoir, auf widersehen, adiós, до свидания, 再見.
Still enjoy flying? Why yes I do. What that has to do with operating a modern FBW airliner in the paranoid security and EASA circus I'm not too sure.
Oh, and aren't the bunch now whining about "ageism" (get a life), the same lot whom through action or omission have "led" this profession down it's current path?
The good guys will be replaced by other good guys, there's no shortage on the line. The
seem to cling on forever.Au revoir, auf widersehen, adiós, до свидания, 再見.
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Case One, do you care to elaborate on how I have led the profession down ths path? By taking the best terms and conditions available to me? Is investing in y childrens' education and the UK government suddenly deciding to up the pension age by four years poor planning on my part? Why do you support an illegal, discriminative policy? Oh- because you want everyone pushed out of your way so you can progress. It's all about you, isn't it?