Monarch in turbulence
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Rushed approach
Yes add LGW but as you say with both easyJet & Norwegian there it will become increasingly difficult for them.
Yellow Sun
Agree 100% but alas bmi is history & a lot of jobs went down the drain, the irony is not lost on me that the new boss at Monarch is ex BA
Yellow Sun
Agree 100% but alas bmi is history & a lot of jobs went down the drain, the irony is not lost on me that the new boss at Monarch is ex BA
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Awful news for the Monarch staff. I hope it turns over for them. A great name in the industry. It does make you wonder where their model fits. Competing directly with the low cost monsters to similar pairs starting on a lower peg costs wise. Flybe have done very well to embrace their unique selling point and corner a little market in the UK. Monarch don't have that. I really do hope they can pull it off, I'd rather fly with them than certain other airlines. All the best for all at the company.
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To be fair to AdM, he has been warning of the foolishness of leaving a large successful organisation for a smaller operator with less secure financials ever since some pilots first threatened to jump ship several years ago. Many cadet pilots felt hard done by and wanted to stick two fingers up at the orange flexi-crew machine. This was at a time when the flexi crew situation had become particularly dire and now things have thankfully improved. Clearly no one is delighting in other's misfortune but on this occasion, he is entitled to a gentle 'I told you so'.
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ADM isn't entitled to display the wonderful benefit of hindsight. The guys who left EZY did so because their terms were shocking. ADM sits from the comfortable position of a left seat training job where it's easy to scoff at those getting shafted by his own airline. MON offered guys good terms on permanent contracts as they did to a number of ex BMI Baby guys who also witnessed their jobs go down the toilet pan.
Good luck to Monarch and all those within it. A far superior airline than the likes of Easyjet will ever be.
Good luck to Monarch and all those within it. A far superior airline than the likes of Easyjet will ever be.
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I don't see them as being any worse mor superior compared to ezy. Here both ULCCs. They both have a basic service. The onboard experience is almost identical. And MON charge you for using online check in (ie they make you choose a seat at £6.50). With easyJet it is free and straight into my iphone ready to go. It's never that easy with MON. Legroom ain't great on either, nut at least with EZY I'm not subjected to the pleather seating. Cabin crew good and bad with both. But one event sticks out with MON. I'll fly them if they're the cheapest as they don't have a USP to attract me and that's your problem. People see the MON/U2/FR product as the same and they'll buy a ticket on the cheapest flight. MON does not have the cost base of U2/FR and that is another problem. Their fares will always need to be higher than the others to generate a profit.
Good luck to all at MON. It can't be a nice experience to go through.
Good luck to all at MON. It can't be a nice experience to go through.
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90, do you have big fat fingers and were you typing on your iPhone?
Good luck to Monarch. I'd pay extra just to avoid O'Leary's aggressive organisation. Same goes for the Orange behemoth too.
Good luck to Monarch. I'd pay extra just to avoid O'Leary's aggressive organisation. Same goes for the Orange behemoth too.
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And so, the PR bandwagon has started with talk of 1,000 job losses that will be whittled down, and make the employees ever so grateful it wasn't actually 1,000.
If the Board do not disclose further information to their employees, I suggest you ask for a copy of the Information Memorandum that has been sent out to potential investors.
If the Board do not disclose further information to their employees, I suggest you ask for a copy of the Information Memorandum that has been sent out to potential investors.
A far superior airline than the likes of Easyjet will ever be.
Monarch's presentation of it's service is stuck in the '70's era of air travel. I recently flew on a scheduled service of theirs to a Spanish destination. Despite maybe 50% of the passengers being Spanish not a single announcement either at the UK Gate or on board was made in Spanish. When I enquired as to why, the answer was that it was company policy to only make announcements in English. Not good enough.
I agree the payment of a fee to check in online is a cheek, MON should be offering a discount to do this as it reduces their costs.
The major problem for employees past & present is their underfunded pension fund, good luck with that.
I agree the payment of a fee to check in online is a cheek, MON should be offering a discount to do this as it reduces their costs.
The major problem for employees past & present is their underfunded pension fund, good luck with that.
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Certainly on U2/FR languages are made in English and the main language of the destination being flown to.
The two airlines also have a much more comprehensive route network and better frequencies than MON. Can anyone actually tell me what makes Monarch so special?
U2/FR have been running as viable, efficient and profitable airlines for many years now. Monarch has not, in the full knowledge that if the going gets tough the M family will just write a blank cheque. The party is now well and truly over and they're up the creek without a paddle if they don't get investors in.
I've heard it said a good few times that Monarch will never go under because of their M family ties. Without the M family to bail them out, who knows what the future holds. But good luck to all.
The two airlines also have a much more comprehensive route network and better frequencies than MON. Can anyone actually tell me what makes Monarch so special?
U2/FR have been running as viable, efficient and profitable airlines for many years now. Monarch has not, in the full knowledge that if the going gets tough the M family will just write a blank cheque. The party is now well and truly over and they're up the creek without a paddle if they don't get investors in.
I've heard it said a good few times that Monarch will never go under because of their M family ties. Without the M family to bail them out, who knows what the future holds. But good luck to all.
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It is awful to see the rise of the low cost operators and the demise of decent companies.
Even those in the "blue and orange bubble" surely have the basic intelligence to see the damaging effect their companies are having on the industry as a whole
Good luck to the Monarch guys and gals affected by this dreadful news.
Even those in the "blue and orange bubble" surely have the basic intelligence to see the damaging effect their companies are having on the industry as a whole
Good luck to the Monarch guys and gals affected by this dreadful news.
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With respect Monarch have been in business for a lot longer than FR and U2. They also had access to funding and could have got any fleet they wanted. They lacked the vision of the big 2, saw how successful they were and did very little about it. Now almost 20 years on they've decided they want a piece of the action.
The big two provide lots of reasonably secure jobs for which many are grateful for. Those who've ploughed £100,000 in to training certainly do. Out of work with £1000 a month loan repayments in one scary place to be in I should imagine.
The big two provide lots of reasonably secure jobs for which many are grateful for. Those who've ploughed £100,000 in to training certainly do. Out of work with £1000 a month loan repayments in one scary place to be in I should imagine.
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Bad times.
Monarch was the airline of choice for many years for those pilots looking for a full career with a balanced life, fair renumeration and of course the excellent pension. The standards within the airline were equal to any and better than most. The news that they may be in a bit of bother will come as a hammer blow, whether still working within the airline or retired. Of course they can continue but for most junior captains and below there can now be only one sensible choice, and as difficult as it is they must seek alternative employment if they wish a career. A shrinking airline is no place to be; ask the ex MyTravel/Thomas Cook pilots caught in the same position.
Monarch sell a lot of seats to small travel companies, many of which are struggling: they operate from expensive but poor quality airports (although they have sensibly got rid of the worst): as they shrink they will offer less route choices and they do not have the established schedule customer base of the likes of ezy. But most telling, they have ordered the wrong aircraft. I do not know anybody who prefers Ryan to Ezy. The passengers may not know which aircraft they are flying in but they do know which is most comfortable with wider seats, easier overhead stowage and better ambience. To order an aircraft with a fuselage designed not long after the end of the Second World War seems foolish. Airbus now even consider the A320 is becoming too narrow for modern day figures! The737 will be the MD80 of the twenty twenties, loved but no longer wanted. (Although come to think of it the 737 would be great configured like the MD - 3/2!)
Anyway, drastic action may hopefully see Monarch continue as a niche airline but the days of the pilots choice must be gone. The great shame is that in their day they did treat pilots decently and were rewarded with highly professional and competent crews who got the job done. They deserve better.
Monarch sell a lot of seats to small travel companies, many of which are struggling: they operate from expensive but poor quality airports (although they have sensibly got rid of the worst): as they shrink they will offer less route choices and they do not have the established schedule customer base of the likes of ezy. But most telling, they have ordered the wrong aircraft. I do not know anybody who prefers Ryan to Ezy. The passengers may not know which aircraft they are flying in but they do know which is most comfortable with wider seats, easier overhead stowage and better ambience. To order an aircraft with a fuselage designed not long after the end of the Second World War seems foolish. Airbus now even consider the A320 is becoming too narrow for modern day figures! The737 will be the MD80 of the twenty twenties, loved but no longer wanted. (Although come to think of it the 737 would be great configured like the MD - 3/2!)
Anyway, drastic action may hopefully see Monarch continue as a niche airline but the days of the pilots choice must be gone. The great shame is that in their day they did treat pilots decently and were rewarded with highly professional and competent crews who got the job done. They deserve better.
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Laarbruch72
I base my assertion relating to the section of pprune that this thread was started - Terms & Endearment. It's not from a SLF perspective.
Monarch is one of the few airlines in the UK worthy of the title of 'career airline.' It has always presented itself as an organisation that looks after it's employees. Unfortunately it appears that many may indeed fall fowl of the sword and invariably, in the long term, Monarch's envied terms and conditions may be a thing of the past as it trims back in order to become profitable. We are already seeing this with British Airways, an already profitable entity within IAG.
I base my assertion relating to the section of pprune that this thread was started - Terms & Endearment. It's not from a SLF perspective.
Monarch is one of the few airlines in the UK worthy of the title of 'career airline.' It has always presented itself as an organisation that looks after it's employees. Unfortunately it appears that many may indeed fall fowl of the sword and invariably, in the long term, Monarch's envied terms and conditions may be a thing of the past as it trims back in order to become profitable. We are already seeing this with British Airways, an already profitable entity within IAG.
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quartic, Monarch have ordered the 737 MAX, which will have the 'sky interior' (the same as the 787, which has proven to be a success with PAX). Even 737NG's have the option of having the sky interior installed, RYR just don't buy that option.
Maybe you should book a ticket on a Norwegian or Thomson 737 and have a look for yourself before you accuse Monarch management of ordering the wrong airplane, based on your perceived views of its Cabin.
Seat width between the two types is almost identical, the overhead bins on the 'sky interior' are bigger, easier to use and create a wider cabin to stand up in, and mood lighting comes as standard.
Back on topic,
Monarch was a career airline 10 years ago, its recent history has shown nothing but poor results despite continued investment. Its latest expansion was a 'go big or go home' move, and many pilots recognised that and didn't apply for that very reason.
It seems the gamble they took is not going to pay off, Monarch is actively positioning itself as a small scheduled airline, and that model has proven time and time again not to work in modern aviation. I wish everyone at Monarch all the best, it was an airline I always wanted to fly for, it may continue to plod along for another 5 years however I think the best outcome now will be a merger. But realistically that is also unlikely.
Maybe you should book a ticket on a Norwegian or Thomson 737 and have a look for yourself before you accuse Monarch management of ordering the wrong airplane, based on your perceived views of its Cabin.
they do know which is most comfortable with wider seats, easier overhead stowage and better ambience
Back on topic,
Monarch was a career airline 10 years ago, its recent history has shown nothing but poor results despite continued investment. Its latest expansion was a 'go big or go home' move, and many pilots recognised that and didn't apply for that very reason.
It seems the gamble they took is not going to pay off, Monarch is actively positioning itself as a small scheduled airline, and that model has proven time and time again not to work in modern aviation. I wish everyone at Monarch all the best, it was an airline I always wanted to fly for, it may continue to plod along for another 5 years however I think the best outcome now will be a merger. But realistically that is also unlikely.
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Monarch will be a tough place going forwards.
It's management have gone to a "don't let a good crisis go to waste" training school.
Talk of shedding 1/3 of jobs is extreme, even if just a game.
Competing with the loco's - Tesco tried this recently....
It's management have gone to a "don't let a good crisis go to waste" training school.
Talk of shedding 1/3 of jobs is extreme, even if just a game.
Competing with the loco's - Tesco tried this recently....
I feel very sorry for all the loyal staff at Monarch, who are entering the "shall I hang on and hope or jump now before the market is swamped with unemployed colleagues" phase. At least the demise of Air Europe was unexpected and sudden.