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Monarch in turbulence

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Monarch in turbulence

Old 9th Sep 2014, 17:11
  #201 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
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If those figures are correct, MON would have the worst pay and conditions in the UK. I'd tell them to take a jump. Why sign up to that when Id be looking to leave anyway. I despise the way pilots and crew get the blame for management inadequacies.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 18:08
  #202 (permalink)  
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What happens to those refusing the salary reduction?
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 18:16
  #203 (permalink)  
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In a nutshell - If people refuse, the airline won't get sold, the M's declare insolvency and everyone is out of a job.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 18:25
  #204 (permalink)  
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That is absolute nonsense.

If a company's going to be insolvent, you'll find out when the administrator turns up. Any business on the verge of administration never mentions it in advance.

To say we need a paycut otherwise we'll go into administration is complete game playing. If the funding was so tight that it depends upon pay reform means there isn't enough cashflow head-room anyway for a company the size of Monarch to survive.

Have the aircraft lease payments taken a similar haircut?

What guarantees do you get it won't go into administration anyway?

What happens if an employee votes no?

Have you seen the due diligence report on their business plan?

Absolute game playing by management.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 18:46
  #205 (permalink)  
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Your management are not performance-based-bonus-hungry- as seen in much of the low cost sector, they are trying to save your jobs. The cuts are severe, but for the business' long term survival, Monarch's costs must match (beat?) its' competitors.

Monarch's decade-late acknowledgement that the "UK to The Sun" market is firmly in the hands of the low cost sector is the reason the required adjustment seem so severe.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 19:33
  #206 (permalink)  
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Rubbish!! look at TUI/TOM decent pay and conditions for crew and pilots, UK to the Sun routes... half a billion pounds in profit last year!! Monarch have been failed by decisions made at board level and the hard working crews are getting screwed for it.

If they are considered expensive then fine, offer a haircut but the figures quoted sounds more like a punishment!!
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 19:42
  #207 (permalink)  
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That's bull. Time and again you see companies turning to the the staff demanding a cull of pay and conditions in order to save a company as if it were the staff that caused the problem. These guys aren't consultants coming in. Theyre management who through their own collective board level failures have led to a certain corporate situation. They took the job and the big bucks, that's their remit. Punishing the workforce only works if it's genuine and across the board. I'd want to see a written guarantee that management are taking an equivalent proportionate cut (getting off lightly as they're in the driving seat which caused this) and also a pledge that should high times return, a reinstatement of conditions takes place and not a case of yesterday's panic turns into today's norm.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 19:49
  #208 (permalink)  
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AF - do you still believe in Santa Claus? Management couldn't care less about saving jobs.

As an example, EZY is a business with a market cap of £5.5bn and profits before tax of £500m so let's not pretend there's not money to be made.

Management have been cooking this up for a long time, and the threat of insolvency (is that administration?) is just another move in the chess board.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 20:04
  #209 (permalink)  
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If administration/liquidation is an option, presumably you've demanded to be paid all PILON, redundancy, holiday pay etc above the statutory levels with immediate effect?
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 20:07
  #210 (permalink)  
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You can't really blame the current management as most of them have been there less than 18 months. The blame sits squarely with the last board (and the one before that) who have all left with a big fat cheques in their pockets. The guys who are there now have to face a reality where all the assets have been sold and the bottom of the barrel has been reached.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 22:07
  #211 (permalink)  
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Tartin. Glad you've finally seen sense. I remember several debates with you centering on the hapless ineptitude of directors past (and some still hanging on) going back probably 5 years or more. The warning signs have been there for years, unfortunately those that could see this coming who posted on the Monarch threads were generally shouted down as naysayers or trolls, or it got lost by posts from people dazzled by generous t&c's quick time to command and a mythical aircraft order.

Just a shame the culprits have all but disappeared with their payoffs.
Good luck everybody.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 22:33
  #212 (permalink)  
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Not looking good

Monarch seeks cuts to pay and pensions | The Times
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 06:16
  #213 (permalink)  
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Just read that article. Not looking good for those close to retirement at all!
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 07:46
  #214 (permalink)  
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Pay 30% and forget the £tens of millions in promised DB pension, or I'll blow up your airline.

To any businessman, that sounds like a terrorist.

To some of you, it's met with cries that they need to do this, the new management are good guys and can't be blamed!

You need to start getting streetwise pronto, and get a professional adviser onboard.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 08:39
  #215 (permalink)  
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Whilst one can understand the comment about 'the family' has invested enough over recent years it completely ignores the return and tax advantages it has enjoyed over many many years, of course there can be no blank cheques for future investment, but pensions provisions should have been fully funded, a hair cut of the magnitude suggested here is disgraceful and ought to be illegal

This will do nothing for customer service despite the much vaunted re training of front line staff, i suspect Monarch will be a re run of bmi with death by a 1000 cuts, the only difference is that its German owners Lufthansa had rather more integrity than this dodgy Italian/Swiss bunch, Lufthansa even topped up the money paid into the PPF post sale to ensure members got all or close to their projected benefits.

To suggest that Monarch can compete with he likes EasyJet/Ryanair/Norwegian or even Jet2 is living in cloud cuckoo land, Monarch will bleed cash this winter and the uncertainty over its future will result in tickets for next summer been sold at distress pricing, if it gets that far
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 09:07
  #216 (permalink)  
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BALPA are negotiating behind a non disclosure agreement, so we have very few facts. They appear convinced by the threats.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 09:27
  #217 (permalink)  

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Presumably there have been annual reports about the state of the pension fund? Has the deficit been building steadily over 10's of years or has it accelerated rapidly in the last couple? Has the company been making agreed contributions as required?

This is going to get really ugly - and I sympathise with all affected.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 10:39
  #218 (permalink)  
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BALPA are negotiating behind an NDA and management are using The Times!

Let's not forget that the auditor signed off their accounts in May 2014, which means they have satisfied themselves that the business is a going concern for 12 months. Equally, they did not include any going concern issue in their audit report.

ATOL still renewed as fine.

Negotiation against terrorists is not in line with BALPA's cosy chats. Stealing candy from kids.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 22:38
  #219 (permalink)  
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I know someone who works for an asset management company whose services Monarch employ and this person revealed to me a few years ago that Monarch had enquired about the legalities surrounding dipping into the pension pot. Rather loud alarm bells. The management at Monarch have a lot to answer for.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 22:43
  #220 (permalink)  
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I flew with Monarch for 9 years from the late 70s. I have always thought of the airline as being a survivor and I only hope for those working there, that there is a turn around in the airline's fortunes.
Without wishing to be seen as self-centered, does anyone know the position of those of us already drawing the pension?

Last edited by Offchocks; 10th Sep 2014 at 23:02.
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